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"Almost all the men on here.. are straight, bisexual, homosexual, pansexual... " Isn't that Steamy Sex in the kitchen? | |||
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"Almost all the men on here.. are straight, bisexual, homosexual, pansexual... Isn't that Steamy Sex in the kitchen? " Nah, that’s when things get saucy. | |||
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"Almost all the men on here.. are straight, bisexual, homosexual, pansexual... Isn't that Steamy Sex in the kitchen? Nah, that’s when things get saucy. " Does that involve socks? | |||
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"I personally never normally trust peoples orientation in this site, as many are either in denial or they are just good liars, peeps in here reinvent themselves constantly often to manipulate search results and so what might a majority today could very easily be a minority tomorrow. " I think you may have missed the point of the OP | |||
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"Almost all the men on here, irrespective of whether they are straight, bisexual, homosexual, pansexual, asexual or otherwise, once had their face stuck in a cunt. " Would that be a real cunt [woman's vagina] or a metaphorical cunt [stupid, nasty unpleasant person]? | |||
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"Almost all the men on here, irrespective of whether they are straight, bisexual, homosexual, pansexual, asexual or otherwise, once had their face stuck in a cunt. Would that be a real cunt [woman's vagina] or a metaphorical cunt [stupid, nasty unpleasant person]?" I expect both. | |||
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"Almost all the men on here, irrespective of whether they are straight, bisexual, homosexual, pansexual, asexual or otherwise, once had their face stuck in a cunt. Would that be a real cunt [woman's vagina] or a metaphorical cunt [stupid, nasty unpleasant person]?" Vulva (unless you mean when they were being born, in which case apologies) | |||
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"A lot of guys on just want sucking off they think if a guy bucks them off they are straight lol Bi most likely straight they ain't " This. I've never understood men who say for example they want to bottom and swallow cum etc. detailing the types of men they are attracted to claiming that they are 'straight'. Huge internalised homophobia. Similarly guys with loads of verifications claiming to be bicurious. Unfortunately the moment you feel sexual attraction to a man, as a man you are bicurious. The moment you've had sex with a man you are bisexual (no longer just 'curious'). It's reality. | |||
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"Almost all the men on here, irrespective of whether they are straight, bisexual, homosexual, pansexual, asexual or otherwise, once had their face stuck in a cunt. Would that be a real cunt [woman's vagina] or a metaphorical cunt [stupid, nasty unpleasant person]?" I will have you know I have never had my face anywhere near ikea starmer  | |||
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"Almost all the men on here, irrespective of whether they are straight, bisexual, homosexual, pansexual, asexual or otherwise, once had their face stuck in a cunt. Would that be a real cunt [woman's vagina] or a metaphorical cunt [stupid, nasty unpleasant person]? I will have you know I have never had my face anywhere near ikea starmer "Ordinarily I do like bellends, however Keith Starmler is a bellend that I'd certainly avoid. | |||
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"A number of posters have written bemoaning the apparent take over of impure, bisexual people, and have asked for the site to impose ways to prohibit those thoroughbred gay people who are so pure in their sexuality as to be unwilling to witness the existence of us bisexual halflings. Therefore in counterpoint to that daftness, i think the site should acknowledge this AC/DC takeover and make the site entirely bisexual, we live in a democracy after all. 😉 {disclaimer: I’m obviously talking bollocks, it’s a ridiculous idea to divide us up and enable people to blank out entire sects of our community}" What "community" are you talking about? In my community women are respected. I do not welcome men who share with other men their wifes' photographs/underwear/bed/stories without their wifes' consent. I do welcome people who have the guts to be open about their sexuality. I do not welcome people who do risk their partners' health by shagging around without being regularly tested. I do welcome people who have campaigned and made change happen so that we gained the right to enjoy sites such as this one. The men you talk about do not belong in my community. In fact, most of them do not belong in any community based on sexual orientation, because they do not have the balls to be upfront about their sexual orientation. So, what is this community you called "our community"? | |||
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"A number of posters have written bemoaning the apparent take over of impure, bisexual people, and have asked for the site to impose ways to prohibit those thoroughbred gay people who are so pure in their sexuality as to be unwilling to witness the existence of us bisexual halflings. Therefore in counterpoint to that daftness, i think the site should acknowledge this AC/DC takeover and make the site entirely bisexual, we live in a democracy after all. 😉 {disclaimer: I’m obviously talking bollocks, it’s a ridiculous idea to divide us up and enable people to blank out entire sects of our community} What "community" are you talking about? In my community women are respected. I do not welcome men who share with other men their wifes' photographs/underwear/bed/stories without their wifes' consent. I do welcome people who have the guts to be open about their sexuality. I do not welcome people who do risk their partners' health by shagging around without being regularly tested. I do welcome people who have campaigned and made change happen so that we gained the right to enjoy sites such as this one. The men you talk about do not belong in my community. In fact, most of them do not belong in any community based on sexual orientation, because they do not have the balls to be upfront about their sexual orientation. So, what is this community you called "our community"? " Agree. To add: Those who are not being respectful to others on here. Those that are saying unkind things about others like their clothing etc. Those that are just on here to cause trouble and stir. Those people can go far away from this site. I agree that this site is a place for bisexual and gay men and trans there are bound to be topics on women. If you want to stay on here then you have to learn to get along with each other regardless of your opinion towards one another. | |||
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"Almost all the men on here, irrespective of whether they are straight, bisexual, homosexual, pansexual, asexual or otherwise, once had their face stuck in a cunt. " You think? I suspect most guys who identify as gay have never been interested enough to get near one | |||
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"Almost all the men on here, irrespective of whether they are straight, bisexual, homosexual, pansexual, asexual or otherwise, once had their face stuck in a cunt. You think? I suspect most guys who identify as gay have never been interested enough to get near one" Think that the person is referring to people being born, just their way of being a troll 🧌 | |||
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" ….What "community" are you talking about? In my community women are respected. I do not welcome men who share with other men their wifes' photographs/underwear/bed/stories without their wifes' consent. I do welcome people who have the guts to be open about their sexuality. I do not welcome people who do risk their partners' health by shagging around without being regularly tested. I do welcome people who have campaigned and made change happen so that we gained the right to enjoy sites such as this one. The men you talk about do not belong in my community. In fact, most of them do not belong in any community based on sexual orientation, because they do not have the balls to be upfront about their sexual orientation. So, what is this community you called "our community"? … " Excellent post, sir. 👍 | |||
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"A number of posters have written bemoaning the apparent take over of impure, bisexual people, and have asked for the site to impose ways to prohibit those thoroughbred gay people who are so pure in their sexuality as to be unwilling to witness the existence of us bisexual halflings. Therefore in counterpoint to that daftness, i think the site should acknowledge this AC/DC takeover and make the site entirely bisexual, we live in a democracy after all. 😉 {disclaimer: I’m obviously talking bollocks, it’s a ridiculous idea to divide us up and enable people to blank out entire sects of our community} What "community" are you talking about? In my community women are respected. I do not welcome men who share with other men their wifes' photographs/underwear/bed/stories without their wifes' consent. I do welcome people who have the guts to be open about their sexuality. I do not welcome people who do risk their partners' health by shagging around without being regularly tested. I do welcome people who have campaigned and made change happen so that we gained the right to enjoy sites such as this one. The men you talk about do not belong in my community. In fact, most of them do not belong in any community based on sexual orientation, because they do not have the balls to be upfront about their sexual orientation. So, what is this community you called "our community"? " Thank you for your post, you have done a cracking job and rather re-enforced my point. We don’t choose our community, our community is where we are and everyone, yes everyone within it. We can’t and on the whole don’t eject those who fail to meet our personal standards, they are still there, still human and still deserving of human consideration even if they behave in ways we dislike. Refusing to engage with people who hold different values to takes us dangerously close to bigotry. Just because someone else is doing something wrong, we don’t get a free hit. Human values still sustain. By all means blind yourself to those you don’t like and who don’t like you, that’s your choice, but please don’t labour under the mistaken idea you can choose who is in your community. Everyone who is where you are is in your community. If you choose to discriminate, that’s your choice, but be reminded, those choices aren’t cost free. | |||
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"A number of posters have written bemoaning the apparent take over of impure, bisexual people, and have asked for the site to impose ways to prohibit those thoroughbred gay people who are so pure in their sexuality as to be unwilling to witness the existence of us bisexual halflings. Therefore in counterpoint to that daftness, i think the site should acknowledge this AC/DC takeover and make the site entirely bisexual, we live in a democracy after all. 😉 {disclaimer: I’m obviously talking bollocks, it’s a ridiculous idea to divide us up and enable people to blank out entire sects of our community} What "community" are you talking about? In my community women are respected. I do not welcome men who share with other men their wifes' photographs/underwear/bed/stories without their wifes' consent. I do welcome people who have the guts to be open about their sexuality. I do not welcome people who do risk their partners' health by shagging around without being regularly tested. I do welcome people who have campaigned and made change happen so that we gained the right to enjoy sites such as this one. The men you talk about do not belong in my community. In fact, most of them do not belong in any community based on sexual orientation, because they do not have the balls to be upfront about their sexual orientation. So, what is this community you called "our community"? Thank you for your post, you have done a cracking job and rather re-enforced my point. We don’t choose our community, our community is where we are and everyone, yes everyone within it. We can’t and on the whole don’t eject those who fail to meet our personal standards, they are still there, still human and still deserving of human consideration even if they behave in ways we dislike. Refusing to engage with people who hold different values to takes us dangerously close to bigotry. Just because someone else is doing something wrong, we don’t get a free hit. Human values still sustain. By all means blind yourself to those you don’t like and who don’t like you, that’s your choice, but please don’t labour under the mistaken idea you can choose who is in your community. Everyone who is where you are is in your community. If you choose to discriminate, that’s your choice, but be reminded, those choices aren’t cost free. " The only bigotry I see on this site seems to come from a particular section of closeted bisexual men (again, definitely not all closeted bisexual men, as many are great) who very obviously have major issues about their desire for gay sex, and so engage in all sorts of casual flippant homophobia on here, as well as OTT 1970s working men's club level misogyny in a bizarre effort to affirm their caricature idea of masculinity: "ooooerrr love me some tits n' fanny, I'd love to fuck X female celebrity, I love stealing women's knickers to sniff, and here are photos of my wife shared without her consent, I'm only on here for sexual release cos she's frigid, I ain't a queer, not really into blokes (even though I'm seeking gay sex here and detail it at length on my profile) coz I'm not a limp wristed drama queen Kylie-loving Harry-hoofter!" Etc. All on a site with 0 biological women, that is set up for gay male sexual activities and attraction. It's really tiresome and a bit sad really. You talk about 'community', but which community? If you aren't out as openly bisexual I highly doubt that you are attending gay social groups, sports clubs, walking groups, events, volunteering for gay organisations etc. If you are closeted and married you are part of the straight community, you may identify as bisexual but if you put forward a straight identity to almost veryone in your life, that's who you are. That's the community you are part of. | |||
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"A number of posters have written bemoaning the apparent take over of impure, bisexual people, and have asked for the site to impose ways to prohibit those thoroughbred gay people who are so pure in their sexuality as to be unwilling to witness the existence of us bisexual halflings. Therefore in counterpoint to that daftness, i think the site should acknowledge this AC/DC takeover and make the site entirely bisexual, we live in a democracy after all. 😉 {disclaimer: I’m obviously talking bollocks, it’s a ridiculous idea to divide us up and enable people to blank out entire sects of our community} What "community" are you talking about? In my community women are respected. I do not welcome men who share with other men their wifes' photographs/underwear/bed/stories without their wifes' consent. I do welcome people who have the guts to be open about their sexuality. I do not welcome people who do risk their partners' health by shagging around without being regularly tested. I do welcome people who have campaigned and made change happen so that we gained the right to enjoy sites such as this one. The men you talk about do not belong in my community. In fact, most of them do not belong in any community based on sexual orientation, because they do not have the balls to be upfront about their sexual orientation. So, what is this community you called "our community"? Thank you for your post, you have done a cracking job and rather re-enforced my point. We don’t choose our community, our community is where we are and everyone, yes everyone within it. We can’t and on the whole don’t eject those who fail to meet our personal standards, they are still there, still human and still deserving of human consideration even if they behave in ways we dislike. Refusing to engage with people who hold different values to takes us dangerously close to bigotry. Just because someone else is doing something wrong, we don’t get a free hit. Human values still sustain. By all means blind yourself to those you don’t like and who don’t like you, that’s your choice, but please don’t labour under the mistaken idea you can choose who is in your community. Everyone who is where you are is in your community. If you choose to discriminate, that’s your choice, but be reminded, those choices aren’t cost free. " I am reinforcing your point, exactly, by pointing out the discrimination shown towards women by bisexual men on this site. And to think some of you are raising daughters... So, I ask again: what is this community you talk about as being "our community"? My neighbours? This site? The LGBTQ+ community? The bisexual men on this site? I choose my communities, thanks. As for your comment about human values, and the one saying that "Refusing to engage with people who hold different values to takes us dangerously close to bigotry", they are comical on more than one level (bad English included). Firstly, the people I take issue with show no respect towards most humans. That's why they cheat on their wifes. Secondly, you advocate not engaging with posts we don't like, so why now brand such action as "bigotry"? Thirdly: your work as a troll does not comply with the values you are asking us to uphold. | |||
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". The only bigotry I see on this site seems to come from a particular section of closeted bisexual men (again, definitely not all closeted bisexual men, as many are great) who very obviously have major issues about their desire for gay sex, and so engage in all sorts of casual flippant homophobia on here, as well as OTT 1970s working men's club level misogyny in a bizarre effort to affirm their caricature idea of masculinity: "ooooerrr love me some tits n' fanny, I'd love to fuck X female celebrity, I love stealing women's knickers to sniff, and here are photos of my wife shared without her consent, I'm only on here for sexual release cos she's frigid, I ain't a queer, not really into blokes (even though I'm seeking gay sex here and detail it at length on my profile) coz I'm not a limp wristed drama queen Kylie-loving Harry-hoofter!" Etc. All on a site with 0 biological women, that is set up for gay male sexual activities and attraction. It's really tiresome and a bit sad really. You talk about 'community', but which community? If you aren't out as openly bisexual I highly doubt that you are attending gay social groups, sports clubs, walking groups, events, volunteering for gay organisations etc. If you are closeted and married you are part of the straight community, you may identify as bisexual but if you put forward a straight identity to almost veryone in your life, that's who you are. That's the community you are part of. " Your point is well made insofar as there is more than enough thigh rubbing tedious drooling over women on this site. It is boring, as you said, old fashioned but not in a good way and I don’t like it either. Where you limit the veracity of your point is in the very first sentence “the only bigotry I see” which is the absolute qualifier. It doesn’t mean there isn’t any other bigotry here, it means that’s the only bigotry you see. That one is on you. | |||
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"A number of posters have written bemoaning the apparent take over of impure, bisexual people, and have asked for the site to impose ways to prohibit those thoroughbred gay people who are so pure in their sexuality as to be unwilling to witness the existence of us bisexual halflings. Therefore in counterpoint to that daftness, i think the site should acknowledge this AC/DC takeover and make the site entirely bisexual, we live in a democracy after all. 😉 {disclaimer: I’m obviously talking bollocks, it’s a ridiculous idea to divide us up and enable people to blank out entire sects of our community} What "community" are you talking about? In my community women are respected. I do not welcome men who share with other men their wifes' photographs/underwear/bed/stories without their wifes' consent. I do welcome people who have the guts to be open about their sexuality. I do not welcome people who do risk their partners' health by shagging around without being regularly tested. I do welcome people who have campaigned and made change happen so that we gained the right to enjoy sites such as this one. The men you talk about do not belong in my community. In fact, most of them do not belong in any community based on sexual orientation, because they do not have the balls to be upfront about their sexual orientation. So, what is this community you called "our community"? Thank you for your post, you have done a cracking job and rather re-enforced my point. We don’t choose our community, our community is where we are and everyone, yes everyone within it. We can’t and on the whole don’t eject those who fail to meet our personal standards, they are still there, still human and still deserving of human consideration even if they behave in ways we dislike. Refusing to engage with people who hold different values to takes us dangerously close to bigotry. Just because someone else is doing something wrong, we don’t get a free hit. Human values still sustain. By all means blind yourself to those you don’t like and who don’t like you, that’s your choice, but please don’t labour under the mistaken idea you can choose who is in your community. Everyone who is where you are is in your community. If you choose to discriminate, that’s your choice, but be reminded, those choices aren’t cost free. I am reinforcing your point, exactly, by pointing out the discrimination shown towards women by bisexual men on this site. And to think some of you are raising daughters... So, I ask again: what is this community you talk about as being "our community"? My neighbours? This site? The LGBTQ+ community? The bisexual men on this site? I choose my communities, thanks. As for your comment about human values, and the one saying that "Refusing to engage with people who hold different values to takes us dangerously close to bigotry", they are comical on more than one level (bad English included). Firstly, the people I take issue with show no respect towards most humans. That's why they cheat on their wifes. Secondly, you advocate not engaging with posts we don't like, so why now brand such action as "bigotry"? Thirdly: your work as a troll does not comply with the values you are asking us to uphold." Ok, so now you are moving to ad hominem attacks just because I am daring to disagree with you on certain points. Please feel free to give a comprehensive outline of my bad English and where it does not comply with the authoritative standard. You are also confusing not engaging with people and their removal. Not engaging with topics you have no common ground with seems reasonable to me. Saying these people are not in your community because they are different to you, when they are metaphorically stood right next to you, that is a different thing entirely. Please don’t call me a troll for disagreeing with you and presenting an alternative viewpoint. I would argue that lapsing to insults and semantic criticisms of perceived writing flaws is closer to trolling than writing counterpoints on a forum. If you don’t like debate, maybe avoid it? | |||
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". The only bigotry I see on this site seems to come from a particular section of closeted bisexual men (again, definitely not all closeted bisexual men, as many are great) who very obviously have major issues about their desire for gay sex, and so engage in all sorts of casual flippant homophobia on here, as well as OTT 1970s working men's club level misogyny in a bizarre effort to affirm their caricature idea of masculinity: "ooooerrr love me some tits n' fanny, I'd love to fuck X female celebrity, I love stealing women's knickers to sniff, and here are photos of my wife shared without her consent, I'm only on here for sexual release cos she's frigid, I ain't a queer, not really into blokes (even though I'm seeking gay sex here and detail it at length on my profile) coz I'm not a limp wristed drama queen Kylie-loving Harry-hoofter!" Etc. All on a site with 0 biological women, that is set up for gay male sexual activities and attraction. It's really tiresome and a bit sad really. You talk about 'community', but which community? If you aren't out as openly bisexual I highly doubt that you are attending gay social groups, sports clubs, walking groups, events, volunteering for gay organisations etc. If you are closeted and married you are part of the straight community, you may identify as bisexual but if you put forward a straight identity to almost veryone in your life, that's who you are. That's the community you are part of. Your point is well made insofar as there is more than enough thigh rubbing tedious drooling over women on this site. It is boring, as you said, old fashioned but not in a good way and I don’t like it either. Where you limit the veracity of your point is in the very first sentence “the only bigotry I see” which is the absolute qualifier. It doesn’t mean there isn’t any other bigotry here, it means that’s the only bigotry you see. That one is on you. " If you're a white British male, closeted to everyone you know in your life, and married to a woman too, you don't really get to lecture gay men about bigotry. Exactly which forms of bigotry do you experience on a regular basis? Surely you know this otherwise you'd be out as bisexual and wouldn't be closeted, otherwise what are you afraid of? (clue: losing your straight social privilege and experiencing homophobic / biphobic bigotry and discrimination). | |||
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"Your point is well made insofar as there is more than enough thigh rubbing tedious drooling over women on this site. It is boring, as you said, old fashioned but not in a good way and I don’t like it either. Where you limit the veracity of your point is in the very first sentence “the only bigotry I see” which is the absolute qualifier. It doesn’t mean there isn’t any other bigotry here, it means that’s the only bigotry you see. That one is on you. If you're a white British male, closeted to everyone you know in your life, and married to a woman too, you don't really get to lecture gay men about bigotry. Exactly which forms of bigotry do you experience on a regular basis? Surely you know this otherwise you'd be out as bisexual and wouldn't be closeted, otherwise what are you afraid of? (clue: losing your straight social privilege and experiencing homophobic / biphobic bigotry and discrimination)." You have had to make a lot of assumptions to try to appear that I am not allowed to make a point. Your assumptions are largely wrong and your attempt to silence people who you don’t think deserve a voice is sad really. I am not going to go on a bigotry top trumps with you because that does no one any favours, if you are unable to listen to people because you perceive them as people to be invalid, again, that one is on you. | |||
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"Your point is well made insofar as there is more than enough thigh rubbing tedious drooling over women on this site. It is boring, as you said, old fashioned but not in a good way and I don’t like it either. Where you limit the veracity of your point is in the very first sentence “the only bigotry I see” which is the absolute qualifier. It doesn’t mean there isn’t any other bigotry here, it means that’s the only bigotry you see. That one is on you. If you're a white British male, closeted to everyone you know in your life, and married to a woman too, you don't really get to lecture gay men about bigotry. Exactly which forms of bigotry do you experience on a regular basis? Surely you know this otherwise you'd be out as bisexual and wouldn't be closeted, otherwise what are you afraid of? (clue: losing your straight social privilege and experiencing homophobic / biphobic bigotry and discrimination). You have had to make a lot of assumptions to try to appear that I am not allowed to make a point. Your assumptions are largely wrong and your attempt to silence people who you don’t think deserve a voice is sad really. I am not going to go on a bigotry top trumps with you because that does no one any favours, if you are unable to listen to people because you perceive them as people to be invalid, again, that one is on you. " As has been covered at length, you're hardly silenced about talking about straight sexuality, fancying / objectifying women, and straight sexual exploitations; it's socially acceptable in nearly every pub, social club, sports team, golf club, most of the internet, many workplaces etc. Tbf the whole boasting about cheating on your wife thing is less acceptable which makes it even weirder to be doing it on a gay website. On the other hand gay men are only just accepted in society, and not by all sections, particularly in Muslim and African immigrant areas (something you were aggressively defending on another thread) where it is often met with violence, which is something I know too well living in Birmingham. Acceptance of gay men peaked in around 2015 and has been backsliding since regardless of what you see on TV. Even when it was at the peak, it was only acceptable if you were in a nice stable outwardly monogamous appearing relationship and never ever talked about sex. You know this which is precisely why you are closeted, because many bisexual men aren't. You've made a choice and that choice is so obviously based on fear of bigotry, judgement, social shunning and poor treatment. This is fine. Your choice. What you don't get to do is hijack the very few gay spaces we have when you have literally the entire world to discuss heterosexuality and then mock and deride gay men and make false claims of experiencing non-existent bigotry. Ultimately I'll just reiterate how odd it is that men are on a site that is explicitly for gay sexual meets, where only men are allowed and then spend their time being homophobic, and making a huge deal out of fancying women etc. and engaging in ridiculous signalling to convince people that they 'definitely don't fancy men and aren't gay' (implying it's wrong / bad) and making absurd complex 'justifications' as to why they are seeking gay sex, when it's obvious the only reason they are here is for gay sex. It's actually a bit sad, and people genuinely could benefit from some counselling on the issue. | |||
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"Your point is well made insofar as there is more than enough thigh rubbing tedious drooling over women on this site. It is boring, as you said, old fashioned but not in a good way and I don’t like it either. Where you limit the veracity of your point is in the very first sentence “the only bigotry I see” which is the absolute qualifier. It doesn’t mean there isn’t any other bigotry here, it means that’s the only bigotry you see. That one is on you. If you're a white British male, closeted to everyone you know in your life, and married to a woman too, you don't really get to lecture gay men about bigotry. Exactly which forms of bigotry do you experience on a regular basis? Surely you know this otherwise you'd be out as bisexual and wouldn't be closeted, otherwise what are you afraid of? (clue: losing your straight social privilege and experiencing homophobic / biphobic bigotry and discrimination). You have had to make a lot of assumptions to try to appear that I am not allowed to make a point. Your assumptions are largely wrong and your attempt to silence people who you don’t think deserve a voice is sad really. I am not going to go on a bigotry top trumps with you because that does no one any favours, if you are unable to listen to people because you perceive them as people to be invalid, again, that one is on you. As has been covered at length, you're hardly silenced about talking about straight sexuality, fancying / objectifying women, and straight sexual exploitations; it's socially acceptable in nearly every pub, social club, sports team, golf club, most of the internet, many workplaces etc. Tbf the whole boasting about cheating on your wife thing is less acceptable which makes it even weirder to be doing it on a gay website. On the other hand gay men are only just accepted in society, and not by all sections, particularly in Muslim and African immigrant areas (something you were aggressively defending on another thread) where it is often met with violence, which is something I know too well living in Birmingham. Acceptance of gay men peaked in around 2015 and has been backsliding since regardless of what you see on TV. Even when it was at the peak, it was only acceptable if you were in a nice stable outwardly monogamous appearing relationship and never ever talked about sex. You know this which is precisely why you are closeted, because many bisexual men aren't. You've made a choice and that choice is so obviously based on fear of bigotry, judgement, social shunning and poor treatment. This is fine. Your choice. What you don't get to do is hijack the very few gay spaces we have when you have literally the entire world to discuss heterosexuality and then mock and deride gay men and make false claims of experiencing non-existent bigotry. Ultimately I'll just reiterate how odd it is that men are on a site that is explicitly for gay sexual meets, where only men are allowed and then spend their time being homophobic, and making a huge deal out of fancying women etc. and engaging in ridiculous signalling to convince people that they 'definitely don't fancy men and aren't gay' (implying it's wrong / bad) and making absurd complex 'justifications' as to why they are seeking gay sex, when it's obvious the only reason they are here is for gay sex. It's actually a bit sad, and people genuinely could benefit from some counselling on the issue. " You keep making assumptions about me on which you pin your arguments, but your assumptions are totally incorrect. You then go off on a pissing contest about how oppressed you are based on the assumptions you are making about me, but your assumptions are totally wrong and thus your pissing contest isn’t against a wall, it’s pissing into the void. A waste of your time and any poor soul having to read it. If your entire problem with all of this is based on your imagined status of people you don’t know, is it the case that your entire perception of this topic is built on non existent foundations? I’m sorry you feel the way you do, but a lot of this appears to be very much a construct of your own imaginings and you are desperate to use me as the other on which to hang your assumptions. But that “other” doesn’t exist, you have made him up. | |||
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"Your point is well made insofar as there is more than enough thigh rubbing tedious drooling over women on this site. It is boring, as you said, old fashioned but not in a good way and I don’t like it either. Where you limit the veracity of your point is in the very first sentence “the only bigotry I see” which is the absolute qualifier. It doesn’t mean there isn’t any other bigotry here, it means that’s the only bigotry you see. That one is on you. If you're a white British male, closeted to everyone you know in your life, and married to a woman too, you don't really get to lecture gay men about bigotry. Exactly which forms of bigotry do you experience on a regular basis? Surely you know this otherwise you'd be out as bisexual and wouldn't be closeted, otherwise what are you afraid of? (clue: losing your straight social privilege and experiencing homophobic / biphobic bigotry and discrimination). You have had to make a lot of assumptions to try to appear that I am not allowed to make a point. Your assumptions are largely wrong and your attempt to silence people who you don’t think deserve a voice is sad really. I am not going to go on a bigotry top trumps with you because that does no one any favours, if you are unable to listen to people because you perceive them as people to be invalid, again, that one is on you. As has been covered at length, you're hardly silenced about talking about straight sexuality, fancying / objectifying women, and straight sexual exploitations; it's socially acceptable in nearly every pub, social club, sports team, golf club, most of the internet, many workplaces etc. Tbf the whole boasting about cheating on your wife thing is less acceptable which makes it even weirder to be doing it on a gay website. On the other hand gay men are only just accepted in society, and not by all sections, particularly in Muslim and African immigrant areas (something you were aggressively defending on another thread) where it is often met with violence, which is something I know too well living in Birmingham. Acceptance of gay men peaked in around 2015 and has been backsliding since regardless of what you see on TV. Even when it was at the peak, it was only acceptable if you were in a nice stable outwardly monogamous appearing relationship and never ever talked about sex. You know this which is precisely why you are closeted, because many bisexual men aren't. You've made a choice and that choice is so obviously based on fear of bigotry, judgement, social shunning and poor treatment. This is fine. Your choice. What you don't get to do is hijack the very few gay spaces we have when you have literally the entire world to discuss heterosexuality and then mock and deride gay men and make false claims of experiencing non-existent bigotry. Ultimately I'll just reiterate how odd it is that men are on a site that is explicitly for gay sexual meets, where only men are allowed and then spend their time being homophobic, and making a huge deal out of fancying women etc. and engaging in ridiculous signalling to convince people that they 'definitely don't fancy men and aren't gay' (implying it's wrong / bad) and making absurd complex 'justifications' as to why they are seeking gay sex, when it's obvious the only reason they are here is for gay sex. It's actually a bit sad, and people genuinely could benefit from some counselling on the issue. You keep making assumptions about me on which you pin your arguments, but your assumptions are totally incorrect. You then go off on a pissing contest about how oppressed you are based on the assumptions you are making about me, but your assumptions are totally wrong and thus your pissing contest isn’t against a wall, it’s pissing into the void. A waste of your time and any poor soul having to read it. If your entire problem with all of this is based on your imagined status of people you don’t know, is it the case that your entire perception of this topic is built on non existent foundations? I’m sorry you feel the way you do, but a lot of this appears to be very much a construct of your own imaginings and you are desperate to use me as the other on which to hang your assumptions. But that “other” doesn’t exist, you have made him up." It's very clear that you and many other closeted bisexual men here view gay men as 'lesser' men which is the unfortunate norm in society, and that's why you feel so aggrieved at being called out by us. It's obvious that consciously or subconsciously you feel that by denigrating, mocking and putting down gay men it somehow reinforces your masculinity which feels under threat by you being on an explicitly gay site seeking and engaging gay sexual encounters. Likewise all the endless misogynistic talk of "birds, tits, fanny, I want to fuck my mate's wife / x female celebrity, I'm only getting fucked by blokes coz me wife don't put out, I don't fancy em" talk. You mock gay men talking about homophobia in society and minimise it as an issue, yet you know it does it exist, and it is so obviously a concern for you otherwise you wouldn't be closeted, would you? I honestly get through impression that you and others here absolutely despise gay men. | |||
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". You keep making assumptions about me on which you pin your arguments, but your assumptions are totally incorrect. You then go off on a pissing contest about how oppressed you are based on the assumptions you are making about me, but your assumptions are totally wrong and thus your pissing contest isn’t against a wall, it’s pissing into the void. A waste of your time and any poor soul having to read it. If your entire problem with all of this is based on your imagined status of people you don’t know, is it the case that your entire perception of this topic is built on non existent foundations? I’m sorry you feel the way you do, but a lot of this appears to be very much a construct of your own imaginings and you are desperate to use me as the other on which to hang your assumptions. But that “other” doesn’t exist, you have made him up. It's very clear that you and many other closeted bisexual men here view gay men as 'lesser' men which is the unfortunate norm in society, and that's why you feel so aggrieved at being called out by us. It's obvious that consciously or subconsciously you feel that by denigrating, mocking and putting down gay men it somehow reinforces your masculinity which feels under threat by you being on an explicitly gay site seeking and engaging gay sexual encounters. Likewise all the endless misogynistic talk of "birds, tits, fanny, I want to fuck my mate's wife / x female celebrity, I'm only getting fucked by blokes coz me wife don't put out, I don't fancy em" talk. You mock gay men talking about homophobia in society and minimise it as an issue, yet you know it does it exist, and it is so obviously a concern for you otherwise you wouldn't be closeted, would you? I honestly get through impression that you and others here absolutely despise gay men. " Who is this “you” that you talk about? You keep calling me closeted which is hilarious, my (bisexual) wife, (disinterested)parents, (gay) boyfriend, (bisexual) girlfriend and non romantic friends would find that equally hilarious. You keep hurling insults at me based on your own assumptions, but none of it is remotely tied to anything I have said on this thread or any other ones. You have invented an enemy which doesn’t exist and you are using it as a standard to rail against. The problem is you are railing against something you have invented. If you stopped that, you might find this whole thing easier. | |||
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". You keep making assumptions about me on which you pin your arguments, but your assumptions are totally incorrect. You then go off on a pissing contest about how oppressed you are based on the assumptions you are making about me, but your assumptions are totally wrong and thus your pissing contest isn’t against a wall, it’s pissing into the void. A waste of your time and any poor soul having to read it. If your entire problem with all of this is based on your imagined status of people you don’t know, is it the case that your entire perception of this topic is built on non existent foundations? I’m sorry you feel the way you do, but a lot of this appears to be very much a construct of your own imaginings and you are desperate to use me as the other on which to hang your assumptions. But that “other” doesn’t exist, you have made him up. It's very clear that you and many other closeted bisexual men here view gay men as 'lesser' men which is the unfortunate norm in society, and that's why you feel so aggrieved at being called out by us. It's obvious that consciously or subconsciously you feel that by denigrating, mocking and putting down gay men it somehow reinforces your masculinity which feels under threat by you being on an explicitly gay site seeking and engaging gay sexual encounters. Likewise all the endless misogynistic talk of "birds, tits, fanny, I want to fuck my mate's wife / x female celebrity, I'm only getting fucked by blokes coz me wife don't put out, I don't fancy em" talk. You mock gay men talking about homophobia in society and minimise it as an issue, yet you know it does it exist, and it is so obviously a concern for you otherwise you wouldn't be closeted, would you? I honestly get through impression that you and others here absolutely despise gay men. Who is this “you” that you talk about? You keep calling me closeted which is hilarious, my (bisexual) wife, (disinterested)parents, (gay) boyfriend, (bisexual) girlfriend and non romantic friends would find that equally hilarious. You keep hurling insults at me based on your own assumptions, but none of it is remotely tied to anything I have said on this thread or any other ones. You have invented an enemy which doesn’t exist and you are using it as a standard to rail against. The problem is you are railing against something you have invented. If you stopped that, you might find this whole thing easier. " I haven't invented anything. What you say about your situation may be true, I've no idea. I doubt it given your profile "new to this life / scene" plus no face pic etc. and your obvious inexperience at living as openly bisexual based on your comments and repeatedly playing down societal homophobia and claiming it isn't a big deal. Even if what you say is true, my comments and views still hold true for a sizeable proportion of married closeted bisexual or 'straight' identifying men on this site. Of course not all, I know because I've met them, but certainly a sizeable proportion at a level that makes this site increasingly unenjoyable hence a large number of gay men leaving. | |||
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". Who is this “you” that you talk about? You keep calling me closeted which is hilarious, my (bisexual) wife, (disinterested)parents, (gay) boyfriend, (bisexual) girlfriend and non romantic friends would find that equally hilarious. You keep hurling insults at me based on your own assumptions, but none of it is remotely tied to anything I have said on this thread or any other ones. You have invented an enemy which doesn’t exist and you are using it as a standard to rail against. The problem is you are railing against something you have invented. If you stopped that, you might find this whole thing easier. I haven't invented anything. What you say about your situation may be true, I've no idea. I doubt it given your profile "new to this life / scene" plus no face pic etc. and your obvious inexperience at living as openly bisexual based on your comments and repeatedly playing down societal homophobia and claiming it isn't a big deal. Even if what you say is true, my comments and views still hold true for a sizeable proportion of married closeted bisexual or 'straight' identifying men on this site. Of course not all, I know because I've met them, but certainly a sizeable proportion at a level that makes this site increasingly unenjoyable hence a large number of gay men leaving. " Again, a list of assumptions based on your preconceived notion of how other people should live and act. This is the problem isn’t it? You have decided what is right and anyone who does it different is somehow wrong and the cause of all your problems. You are judging me a liar because you dont agree with my approach to personal privacy on a swinging site. You are confusing having a boyfriend and swinging and thinking that because I am fairly inexperienced at swinging, I have no credentials in relationships with men. Show me please where I have played down homophobia or mocked gay men for being gay. What I mock is those who seek to police who can be in this space and those, who try to prevent others from engaging on topics relevant to them. What this all boils down to is the fact you cannot stand people who are different to you. That’s what is apparent throughout this entire thread. You hurl insults and accusations to distract from that, but the root of this is your bigotry and discomfort with people’s sexuality. Not mine. Not anyone else’s. What seems clear from this conversation is that it is not founded on homophobia, but on quite a clearly apparent biphobia that you are exhibiting. We aren’t behaving to your preconceived standards and you hate that. | |||
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". Who is this “you” that you talk about? You keep calling me closeted which is hilarious, my (bisexual) wife, (disinterested)parents, (gay) boyfriend, (bisexual) girlfriend and non romantic friends would find that equally hilarious. You keep hurling insults at me based on your own assumptions, but none of it is remotely tied to anything I have said on this thread or any other ones. You have invented an enemy which doesn’t exist and you are using it as a standard to rail against. The problem is you are railing against something you have invented. If you stopped that, you might find this whole thing easier. I haven't invented anything. What you say about your situation may be true, I've no idea. I doubt it given your profile "new to this life / scene" plus no face pic etc. and your obvious inexperience at living as openly bisexual based on your comments and repeatedly playing down societal homophobia and claiming it isn't a big deal. Even if what you say is true, my comments and views still hold true for a sizeable proportion of married closeted bisexual or 'straight' identifying men on this site. Of course not all, I know because I've met them, but certainly a sizeable proportion at a level that makes this site increasingly unenjoyable hence a large number of gay men leaving. Again, a list of assumptions based on your preconceived notion of how other people should live and act. This is the problem isn’t it? You have decided what is right and anyone who does it different is somehow wrong and the cause of all your problems. You are judging me a liar because you dont agree with my approach to personal privacy on a swinging site. You are confusing having a boyfriend and swinging and thinking that because I am fairly inexperienced at swinging, I have no credentials in relationships with men. Show me please where I have played down homophobia or mocked gay men for being gay. What I mock is those who seek to police who can be in this space and those, who try to prevent others from engaging on topics relevant to them. What this all boils down to is the fact you cannot stand people who are different to you. That’s what is apparent throughout this entire thread. You hurl insults and accusations to distract from that, but the root of this is your bigotry and discomfort with people’s sexuality. Not mine. Not anyone else’s. What seems clear from this conversation is that it is not founded on homophobia, but on quite a clearly apparent biphobia that you are exhibiting. We aren’t behaving to your preconceived standards and you hate that. " This isn't a swinging site. You're using it as one, but it explicitly isn't one. This is a gay sex hookup site for gay and bi men seeking men. Women literally aren't allowed to join. Fabswingers is what you are thinking of which is something myself and countless others have pointed out on this thread and the other. This is the crux of the issue and why people are irritated. 'Swinging' isn't even a term used for male sexual relations by either gay men or straight men. It's quite literally not in the lexicon. Swinging refers to married MF couples that sleep with other couples either heterosexually or bisexually. As has been covered repeatedly; women aren't on this site. Everyone here is here to meet men: FabGUYS. | |||
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"This isn't a swinging site. You're using it as one, but it explicitly isn't one. This is a gay sex hookup site for gay and bi men seeking men. Women literally aren't allowed to join. Fabswingers is what you are thinking of which is something myself and countless others have pointed out on this thread and the other. This is the crux of the issue and why people are irritated. 'Swinging' isn't even a term used for male sexual relations by either gay men or straight men. It's quite literally not in the lexicon. Swinging refers to married MF couples that sleep with other couples either heterosexually or bisexually. As has been covered repeatedly; women aren't on this site. Everyone here is here to meet men: FabGUYS. " Well said. Though I doubt they will see the point because it doesn’t fit with the twisted narrative they are trying to push for their own benefit. No doubt your post and this will be the subject or another stream of twisted drivel. | |||
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". This isn't a swinging site. You're using it as one, but it explicitly isn't one. This is a gay sex hookup site for gay and bi men seeking men. Women literally aren't allowed to join. Fabswingers is what you are thinking of which is something myself and countless others have pointed out on this thread and the other. This is the crux of the issue and why people are irritated. 'Swinging' isn't even a term used for male sexual relations by either gay men or straight men. It's quite literally not in the lexicon. Swinging refers to married MF couples that sleep with other couples either heterosexually or bisexually. As has been covered repeatedly; women aren't on this site. Everyone here is here to meet men: FabGUYS. " Ok so your whole argument is that you call meeting people for casual sex “hookup” and I call it “swinging” It’s purely semantic as we are both talking about the same thing. You state that Swinging isn’t a term used for male sexual relations then complain about all those people using it as one. So it is used, you just don’t like it. This whole thing comes back to your lack of tolerance for other people. Not anyone else’s. Words can be used for any purpose the user intends them to be use for. You nor anyone else gets to police that. I’m sorry you don’t like sharing your space with bisexual people, but again, that one is on you. | |||
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". This isn't a swinging site. You're using it as one, but it explicitly isn't one. This is a gay sex hookup site for gay and bi men seeking men. Women literally aren't allowed to join. Fabswingers is what you are thinking of which is something myself and countless others have pointed out on this thread and the other. This is the crux of the issue and why people are irritated. 'Swinging' isn't even a term used for male sexual relations by either gay men or straight men. It's quite literally not in the lexicon. Swinging refers to married MF couples that sleep with other couples either heterosexually or bisexually. As has been covered repeatedly; women aren't on this site. Everyone here is here to meet men: FabGUYS. Ok so your whole argument is that you call meeting people for casual sex “hookup” and I call it “swinging” It’s purely semantic as we are both talking about the same thing. You state that Swinging isn’t a term used for male sexual relations then complain about all those people using it as one. So it is used, you just don’t like it. This whole thing comes back to your lack of tolerance for other people. Not anyone else’s. Words can be used for any purpose the user intends them to be use for. You nor anyone else gets to police that. I’m sorry you don’t like sharing your space with bisexual people, but again, that one is on you. " Not really, it's just telling of the fact you have extremely limited experience of open gay or male-attraction skewed bisexual life. I've been out for most of my life, I've lived all over and been around the world, online and IRL in gay spaces and known countless men who have been partnered or single and I've never heard or read of gay sexual activity referred to as 'swinging'. It's just not a term used to refer to M2M relations of any kind. Open relationships, orgy, threesomes, hookups, couple meets etc. never 'swinging'. I go to Gran Canaria all the time, there are gay sex clubs and there are swingers clubs. Same even here in Birmingham. As a gay man I wouldn't be allowed into the swingers clubs, similarly women and straight men aren't allowed into gay male sex clubs. I know for a fact that the vibe, set up and experience are totally different based on what bi men have told me. You can use any word you like, but words are shibboleths and they give away the reality of your knowledge and experience. | |||
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". This isn't a swinging site. You're using it as one, but it explicitly isn't one. This is a gay sex hookup site for gay and bi men seeking men. Women literally aren't allowed to join. Fabswingers is what you are thinking of which is something myself and countless others have pointed out on this thread and the other. This is the crux of the issue and why people are irritated. 'Swinging' isn't even a term used for male sexual relations by either gay men or straight men. It's quite literally not in the lexicon. Swinging refers to married MF couples that sleep with other couples either heterosexually or bisexually. As has been covered repeatedly; women aren't on this site. Everyone here is here to meet men: FabGUYS. Ok so your whole argument is that you call meeting people for casual sex “hookup” and I call it “swinging” It’s purely semantic as we are both talking about the same thing. You state that Swinging isn’t a term used for male sexual relations then complain about all those people using it as one. So it is used, you just don’t like it. This whole thing comes back to your lack of tolerance for other people. Not anyone else’s. Words can be used for any purpose the user intends them to be use for. You nor anyone else gets to police that. I’m sorry you don’t like sharing your space with bisexual people, but again, that one is on you. Not really, it's just telling of the fact you have extremely limited experience of open gay or male-attraction skewed bisexual life. I've been out for most of my life, I've lived all over and been around the world, online and IRL in gay spaces and known countless men who have been partnered or single and I've never heard or read of gay sexual activity referred to as 'swinging'. It's just not a term used to refer to M2M relations of any kind. Open relationships, orgy, threesomes, hookups, couple meets etc. never 'swinging'. I go to Gran Canaria all the time, there are gay sex clubs and there are swingers clubs. Same even here in Birmingham. As a gay man I wouldn't be allowed into the swingers clubs, similarly women and straight men aren't allowed into gay male sex clubs. I know for a fact that the vibe, set up and experience are totally different based on what bi men have told me. You can use any word you like, but words are shibboleths and they give away the reality of your knowledge and experience." You are just playing top trumps here. That’s all, You are gayer than me, that seems to be all you are trying to say. Congratulations. You are 17 gay, I am only 8 gay. It’s meaningless. You talk of shibboleths, but you are the one using words to divide groups and gatekeeping. Again, your discomfort with the world around you is on the basis of things you have invented and projected onto innocent passers by to keep the division real in nobody’s mind but yours. You want to divide, you have made that clear. We differ only there. I have no interest in dividing society, and blocking people off, especially those I identify with the least. I want to see more of them. Not less. That’s the only thing we differ on which matters. Now stop blaming me for whatever it is you don’t like about the world. I wasn’t there, I didn’t do it. | |||
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"A number of posters have written bemoaning the apparent take over of impure, bisexual people, and have asked for the site to impose ways to prohibit those thoroughbred gay people who are so pure in their sexuality as to be unwilling to witness the existence of us bisexual halflings. Therefore in counterpoint to that daftness, i think the site should acknowledge this AC/DC takeover and make the site entirely bisexual, we live in a democracy after all. 😉 {disclaimer: I’m obviously talking bollocks, it’s a ridiculous idea to divide us up and enable people to blank out entire sects of our community} What "community" are you talking about? In my community women are respected. I do not welcome men who share with other men their wifes' photographs/underwear/bed/stories without their wifes' consent. I do welcome people who have the guts to be open about their sexuality. I do not welcome people who do risk their partners' health by shagging around without being regularly tested. I do welcome people who have campaigned and made change happen so that we gained the right to enjoy sites such as this one. The men you talk about do not belong in my community. In fact, most of them do not belong in any community based on sexual orientation, because they do not have the balls to be upfront about their sexual orientation. So, what is this community you called "our community"? Thank you for your post, you have done a cracking job and rather re-enforced my point. We don’t choose our community, our community is where we are and everyone, yes everyone within it. We can’t and on the whole don’t eject those who fail to meet our personal standards, they are still there, still human and still deserving of human consideration even if they behave in ways we dislike. Refusing to engage with people who hold different values to takes us dangerously close to bigotry. Just because someone else is doing something wrong, we don’t get a free hit. Human values still sustain. By all means blind yourself to those you don’t like and who don’t like you, that’s your choice, but please don’t labour under the mistaken idea you can choose who is in your community. Everyone who is where you are is in your community. If you choose to discriminate, that’s your choice, but be reminded, those choices aren’t cost free. I am reinforcing your point, exactly, by pointing out the discrimination shown towards women by bisexual men on this site. And to think some of you are raising daughters... So, I ask again: what is this community you talk about as being "our community"? My neighbours? This site? The LGBTQ+ community? The bisexual men on this site? I choose my communities, thanks. As for your comment about human values, and the one saying that "Refusing to engage with people who hold different values to takes us dangerously close to bigotry", they are comical on more than one level (bad English included). Firstly, the people I take issue with show no respect towards most humans. That's why they cheat on their wifes. Secondly, you advocate not engaging with posts we don't like, so why now brand such action as "bigotry"? Thirdly: your work as a troll does not comply with the values you are asking us to uphold. Ok, so now you are moving to ad hominem attacks just because I am daring to disagree with you on certain points. Please feel free to give a comprehensive outline of my bad English and where it does not comply with the authoritative standard. You are also confusing not engaging with people and their removal. Not engaging with topics you have no common ground with seems reasonable to me. Saying these people are not in your community because they are different to you, when they are metaphorically stood right next to you, that is a different thing entirely. Please don’t call me a troll for disagreeing with you and presenting an alternative viewpoint. I would argue that lapsing to insults and semantic criticisms of perceived writing flaws is closer to trolling than writing counterpoints on a forum. If you don’t like debate, maybe avoid it?" You seem very interested in defining the meaning of certain words to us, yet you still haven't answered my question about the community you were talking about in your original post. What is this "our community" you believe we are all part of? We can hardly debate if you are not answering questions. And debating is only done with people who know what they are talking about. Your profile has no verification even though you have been on the site for over a year. Please allow me to call you a troll, based on that evidence, and on your comments in this thread. As you haven't provided your opinion on what I wrote, besides my mention of your grammatical mistake (I had copied it in my response to you, and you still pretend not to see it), it is clear that you are trolling, not debating. I don't recall asking for anyone to be removed either, where did you see that? | |||
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"You seem very interested in defining the meaning of certain words to us, yet you still haven't answered my question about the community you were talking about in your original post. What is this "our community" you believe we are all part of? We can hardly debate if you are not answering questions. And debating is only done with people who know what they are talking about. Your profile has no verification even though you have been on the site for over a year. Please allow me to call you a troll, based on that evidence, and on your comments in this thread. As you haven't provided your opinion on what I wrote, besides my mention of your grammatical mistake (I had copied it in my response to you, and you still pretend not to see it), it is clear that you are trolling, not debating. I don't recall asking for anyone to be removed either, where did you see that? " Re. Community, sorry that one is my fault, I didn’t include it sufficiently clearly. Community is simple, the people around you in any given place. Whether we like or agree with them or not. It’s a diverse place and that’s both good and difficult at times. I have answered many questions and I did answer that one but I obviously didn’t do so clearly enough and that was my mistake. You continue to seek to diminish me such that you can dismiss out of hand anything I am saying. Grand, go ahead with that. Have a look at the number of unanswered points and questions I have made. Or is it just me who needs to answer them all? We are definitely going round in circles here. | |||
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"Point of information: democracy in it's true meaning is rule of the people not rule of the majority. The majority should not rule to the exclusion of minorities." Agreed, sadly it very often does. | |||
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