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Puberty blockers

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By *lasbi OP   Man
over a year ago

WH

This is mostly a question for those on here who have transitioned to the opposite sex from which they were born.

What is your opinion on the recent ruling that under 16s can be prescribed them without parental knowledge.

Would you have benefited from their use if they were available when you were pre-pubescent?

I personally am in favour of the ruling. While parents (almost) always have their kids best interest at heart, they lack the understanding to realise what mental (I don’t want to say disorder… maybe difference….) the child is experiencing.

The medical staff involved, of course, must work together with the child to develop a real trust and understanding before any treatment is instigated. Where possible, the child should be encouraged to allow the parent to be a part of the process (and the parent must also be appropriately counselled).

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Heard some expert on the radio yesterday saying the adolescent brain does'nt really stop developing until about 25. From my own experience and observation that seems about right.

e.g. Who do you think, judging by behavior, were the biggest dickheads during the first lockdown. Adolescent males get my vote.

I have heard many state that they always knew they were in the wrong body and I believe them.How to differentiate between that kid and the one picking up on all the news content on the subject? Its not a decision to be left to a 16 year old.

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By *loffus69Man
over a year ago

Essex guy just outside Clacton.


"Heard some expert on the radio yesterday saying the adolescent brain does'nt really stop developing until about 25. From my own experience and observation that seems about right.

e.g. Who do you think, judging by behavior, were the biggest dickheads during the first lockdown. Adolescent males get my vote.

I have heard many state that they always knew they were in the wrong body and I believe them.How to differentiate between that kid and the one picking up on all the news content on the subject? Its not a decision to be left to a 16 year old. "

Comes to something though when you hear of the very young doubting their born sexuality! And so called parents treating their childer as non defined gender.

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By *o NonsenseMan
over a year ago

metrocentre

If you can fight in wars, have children and pay taxes at 16 then I don't see why thos should be something you can't decide.

As patents, you don't own your children and unless you have a relevant medical degree then you really aren't the person best informed about the process.

Simple question - when did you know you were in the right body for your identity?

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By *3versMan
over a year ago

glasgow


"If you can fight in wars, have children and pay taxes at 16 then I don't see why thos should be something you can't decide.

As patents, you don't own your children and unless you have a relevant medical degree then you really aren't the person best informed about the process.

Simple question - when did you know you were in the right body for your identity? "

But most people go through puberty well before 16. You're putting these decisions in 10-12 year olds

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By *atalieCDTV85TV/TS
over a year ago

Bury St Edmunds

I would have found puberty blockers useful when I was younger

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By *ipples 100Man
over a year ago

Bradford

Lady Colin Campbell is a classic case of the so called experts got it wrong. Poor woman had to suffer 21 years until she was able to have corrective surgery. Google her story Google her story Google her story

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By *nightmaker79Man
over a year ago

Dundee

Sorry but it's wrong

Shoving kids on medical drugs and allowing them to mutilate their bodies based on a fucked up ideology like Gender Identity where it's made up word salad like Genderfae Genderfauna and horseshit pronouns made up from a mixture of zodiac starsigns and vegetables

It's a mental illness based on narcissism and egotistical bullshit.

Humanity cannot change sex. A Transwoman is a Transwoman not a woman as sorry to be blunt yer genetic makeup and dna is male and no amount of hormones or surgery will make you get pregnant or have a menstrual cycle literally because your genetic biological makeup cannot change like some weird Jurassic Park montage where 'life finds a way'

I'm all for ADULTS literally living their lives based on their desire to live as they see fit but when you start the horseshit of trying to make kids as young as 4 declare they're not a girl because they wanna play with Hot Wheels or runaround in the dirt playing footie; or not a boy because they wanna play My Little Pony or bake cakes like mummy that's when yer bullshit is vying on indoctrination.

Let kids be kids not a generation of screwed up snowflakes who need therapy!

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By *lasbi OP   Man
over a year ago

WH


"Sorry but it's wrong

Shoving kids on medical drugs and allowing them to mutilate their bodies based on a fucked up ideology like Gender Identity where it's made up word salad like Genderfae Genderfauna and horseshit pronouns made up from a mixture of zodiac starsigns and vegetables

It's a mental illness based on narcissism and egotistical bullshit.

Humanity cannot change sex. A Transwoman is a Transwoman not a woman as sorry to be blunt yer genetic makeup and dna is male and no amount of hormones or surgery will make you get pregnant or have a menstrual cycle literally because your genetic biological makeup cannot change like some weird Jurassic Park montage where 'life finds a way'

I'm all for ADULTS literally living their lives based on their desire to live as they see fit but when you start the horseshit of trying to make kids as young as 4 declare they're not a girl because they wanna play with Hot Wheels or runaround in the dirt playing footie; or not a boy because they wanna play My Little Pony or bake cakes like mummy that's when yer bullshit is vying on indoctrination.

Let kids be kids not a generation of screwed up snowflakes who need therapy! "

No one is advocating shoving drugs on kids. I suggested meticulous investigation and counselling before treatment begins.

You still misunderstand the difference between gender and biological sex. It’s also sad that you fail to appreciate that what society believe to be “narcissistic egotistical bullshit” today was the same that they thought of gay/bi/“straight curious” yesteryear.

Aren’t you aware of then increased incidence of suicide amongst early teens who are gender dysphoric? Waiting until they are 16 (that golden age when every child becomes instantly enlightened and able to make their own medical decision without consulting their parents *rolls eyes*) might be a little too late for some kids

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Sorry but it's wrong

Shoving kids on medical drugs and allowing them to mutilate their bodies based on a fucked up ideology like Gender Identity where it's made up word salad like Genderfae Genderfauna and horseshit pronouns made up from a mixture of zodiac starsigns and vegetables

It's a mental illness based on narcissism and egotistical bullshit.

Humanity cannot change sex. A Transwoman is a Transwoman not a woman as sorry to be blunt yer genetic makeup and dna is male and no amount of hormones or surgery will make you get pregnant or have a menstrual cycle literally because your genetic biological makeup cannot change like some weird Jurassic Park montage where 'life finds a way'

I'm all for ADULTS literally living their lives based on their desire to live as they see fit but when you start the horseshit of trying to make kids as young as 4 declare they're not a girl because they wanna play with Hot Wheels or runaround in the dirt playing footie; or not a boy because they wanna play My Little Pony or bake cakes like mummy that's when yer bullshit is vying on indoctrination.

Let kids be kids not a generation of screwed up snowflakes who need therapy! "

Fuck me (metaphorically) what a brilliant breath of fresh air. Well said my friend

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By *lasbi OP   Man
over a year ago

WH

My initial reaction was against.

But when you think about history and learning from previous experience, I changed my view.

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By *lasbi OP   Man
over a year ago

WH


"Let kids be kids not a generation of screwed up snowflakes who need therapy! "

They definitely need therapy. But those whose issues can’t be solved with psychotherapy may need drug treatment.

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By *lasbi OP   Man
over a year ago

WH


"Let kids be kids not a generation of screwed up snowflakes who need therapy! "

They definitely need therapy. But those whose issues can’t be solved with psychotherapy may need drug treatment.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I WAS reading this thread with interest and enjoying the thoughtful, measursed and well informed responses given to this deeply complex issue... After all if you ARE trans, avoiding unwanted puberty and the changes to facial structure, skin tone, hair distribution, musculature and personality it brings about must save a world of emotional turmoil - just look at how feminine and beautiful many ladyboys are - it's not something special about being Thai, it's a result of the fact that many/most start their treatment at a young age, so avoiding having to go through the process of trying to reverse the attainment of unwanted and inappropriate manhood (though of course they frequently don't undertake bottom surgery - whether by choice or financial necessity - ensuring they're of particular interest to 'straight' western men)... HOWEVER it didn't take long for the Daily Mail brigade to start injecting terms like 'snowflake' (merely an alt right gaslighting term to signify a Liberal thinker as opposed to the borderline neo fascists that use the term) into their comments and I've no doubt another will soon include 'woke' (the irony being that the conspiratorial piffle that those who use the term in an accusatory manner often come out with elsewhere on here, be it predictably right wing, is pretty much the definition of 'woke') into their responses...

Anyway as a garden variety poof I cannot claim any special understanding of the misery being cast into the wrong body must inflict on a human being. Though I do believe that some may misinterpret their own 'other' orientational and emotional tribulations as evidential of a Trans nature, when it may be that they are instead perhaps non binary, gay and feminine in character (I don't believe simply being effeminate is a signal in itself of transexuality) or the victim of other non gender centred inner turmoil... This is of course where the whole question gets especially complex and controversial.

So no answers from me - just best wishes and heartfelt support for those navigating their own gender issues - young or old. Dx

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By *osieburnsTV/TS
over a year ago

didcot


"Sorry but it's wrong

Shoving kids on medical drugs and allowing them to mutilate their bodies based on a fucked up ideology like Gender Identity where it's made up word salad like Genderfae Genderfauna and horseshit pronouns made up from a mixture of zodiac starsigns and vegetables

It's a mental illness based on narcissism and egotistical bullshit.

Humanity cannot change sex. A Transwoman is a Transwoman not a woman as sorry to be blunt yer genetic makeup and dna is male and no amount of hormones or surgery will make you get pregnant or have a menstrual cycle literally because your genetic biological makeup cannot change like some weird Jurassic Park montage where 'life finds a way'

I'm all for ADULTS literally living their lives based on their desire to live as they see fit but when you start the horseshit of trying to make kids as young as 4 declare they're not a girl because they wanna play with Hot Wheels or runaround in the dirt playing footie; or not a boy because they wanna play My Little Pony or bake cakes like mummy that's when yer bullshit is vying on indoctrination.

Let kids be kids not a generation of screwed up snowflakes who need therapy! "

I'm not looking to get pregnant.

I'm not looking to have a menstrual cycle.

But very happy for you to identify me as some "weird jurassic park montage"

Dinosaur.. think you need to turn away from the mirror

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By *o NonsenseMan
over a year ago

metrocentre


"If you can fight in wars, have children and pay taxes at 16 then I don't see why this should be something you can't decide.

As patents, you don't own your children and unless you have a relevant medical degree then you really aren't the person best informed about the process.

Simple question - when did you know you were in the right body for your identity?

But most people go through puberty well before 16. You're putting these decisions in 10-12 year olds"

Am I?

Quote me (and quote the age that I mentioned) please.

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By *o NonsenseMan
over a year ago

metrocentre

For guys who can't tell the difference - 16 is not 10-12

Very worrying

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's a massive thing to decide, would you let a 10 year old to buy your next house? Clearly not, children are going through puberty earlier, and if they are allowing this without parents knowing it's wrong, it's a massive thing for parents, this is a discussion that needs to be had by the whole family not just the individual, but parents and siblings, at the end of the day they are going to affected also, it's not a black and white subject, it's complex, i was lucky with my son as we discussed everything when he was younger and that is the same now he is in his 30s he is the same with his children,

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By *3versMan
over a year ago

glasgow


"For guys who can't tell the difference - 16 is not 10-12

Very worrying "

We're talking about puberty blockers, 16 year olds will have been through puberty so they are ineffective at that age, 10-12 is the typical onset of puberty, so that's when the decision needs to be made.

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By *nightmaker79Man
over a year ago

Dundee


"Sorry but it's wrong

Shoving kids on medical drugs and allowing them to mutilate their bodies based on a fucked up ideology like Gender Identity where it's made up word salad like Genderfae Genderfauna and horseshit pronouns made up from a mixture of zodiac starsigns and vegetables

It's a mental illness based on narcissism and egotistical bullshit.

Humanity cannot change sex. A Transwoman is a Transwoman not a woman as sorry to be blunt yer genetic makeup and dna is male and no amount of hormones or surgery will make you get pregnant or have a menstrual cycle literally because your genetic biological makeup cannot change like some weird Jurassic Park montage where 'life finds a way'

I'm all for ADULTS literally living their lives based on their desire to live as they see fit but when you start the horseshit of trying to make kids as young as 4 declare they're not a girl because they wanna play with Hot Wheels or runaround in the dirt playing footie; or not a boy because they wanna play My Little Pony or bake cakes like mummy that's when yer bullshit is vying on indoctrination.

Let kids be kids not a generation of screwed up snowflakes who need therapy!

No one is advocating shoving drugs on kids. I suggested meticulous investigation and counselling before treatment begins.

You still misunderstand the difference between gender and biological sex. It’s also sad that you fail to appreciate that what society believe to be “narcissistic egotistical bullshit” today was the same that they thought of gay/bi/“straight curious” yesteryear.

Aren’t you aware of then increased incidence of suicide amongst early teens who are gender dysphoric? Waiting until they are 16 (that golden age when every child becomes instantly enlightened and able to make their own medical decision without consulting their parents *rolls eyes*) might be a little too late for some kids "

Umm no I'm not confused between what SEX and GENDER is. I know exactly what the definition of both are. Unlike you I don't believe the bullshit from Stonewall or Mermaids.

Oh and the evidence of all these "suicidal" teens is based on flawed data based on less than 100 responses; the same way flawed Stonewall suggests that 'Gender Identity' is a protected characteristic in the Equality Act; it's not - it's Gender Reassignment that's protected i.e. the actual physical and surgical transition of being the opposite sex they were born, not wearing the wives panties and calling themselves Silvia/Tanya/etc at the weekend.

Maybe have a look at all the snowflakes on Twitter - coming out with Genderfauna pronouns and asshat nonsense whilst they target biological women and send violent threats to sexual assault victims. It's narcissism and ego. Kinda like the incels that can't take no as an answer when a woman rejects their advances. Both unhinged and needing therapeutic ways of controlling their anger and childish tantrums.

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By *illingbtmMan
over a year ago

meath cavan

So after you take these blockers . what are you .

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By *illingbtmMan
over a year ago

meath cavan

Do you become a Jester kinda guy ..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Do you become a Jester kinda guy .."

No, you are still the sex you were assigned at birth.

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By *illingbtmMan
over a year ago

meath cavan

But can u get hard / cum

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By *eicjaseMan
over a year ago

Derby


"If you can fight in wars, have children and pay taxes at 16 then I don't see why thos should be something you can't decide.

As patents, you don't own your children and unless you have a relevant medical degree then you really aren't the person best informed about the process.

Simple question - when did you know you were in the right body for your identity? "

18 to go to war, you can join up at 16 but cannot serve on the front line.

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By *3versMan
over a year ago

glasgow


"But can u get hard / cum"

You can't cum because you haven't been through puberty

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If you can fight in wars ... at 16 then I don't see why thos should be something you can't decide"

This is a common misapprehension, or piece of misinformation, and is false and misleading. You can join the Armed Forces for training at 16 but you can NOT deploy on operations, let alone fight, until you are 18!

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By *illingbtmMan
over a year ago

meath cavan

So when do you change to female/ male hormones ..

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By *rucewayne1stMan
over a year ago

Nottingham

My great nephew is going through this situation since he was 6 he's told his parents that he feels he's in the wrong body, and should be a girl, his mum(my niece) asked my advice because I'm the gay uncle who wouldn't judge, I've spoken to a very good friend who has gone through the transition and she gave great advice, those who are considering having the change either from male to female or female to male , need expert advice so I put my niece in contact with a charity group called Mermaids, and they have been a fabulous and fantastic service. I no longer have a great nephew but I do have a great niece

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By *uprinusMan
over a year ago

Rialto

Puberty blockers delay puberty, they do not carry the lifechanging effect of HRT or Surgery, and give kids the chance to avoid going through the wrong puberty for their gender. They are reversible in almost all cases as stopping the dosage will allow for puberty to resume as normal. I dont think someone under 16 should be having gender confirmation surgery, facial masculinasation/feminisation surgery or be on proper HRT as HRT tends to cause infertility.

People forget that puberty blockers are awidespread medication. Outside of trans kids, they are used to delay puberty for kids who go through precocious puberty, so they dont have the phydsical and mental trauma of starting puberty as a 6 year old. The media has made it far scarier sounding than it actually is.

Cases of detransitioning are much rarer than people think, and happen for a variety of reasons - most often due to social stigma rather than the person making a mistake. The latter cases do happen,and are tragic, but could be solved with better and more accepting trans services that dont require or stress HRT or surgery as necessary to affirm someone's gender.

Rulings that limit puberty blocker access and otherwise make the ability for teens to feel comfortable in their body and gender more difficult are going to lead to dangerous outcomes. We need to get better at distigmatising trans identities and providing education about queer sexuality and gender in regular school sex ed programs.

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By *ildwestheroMan
over a year ago

Llandrindod Wells

Teenagers change their minds like the wind and can often become easily influenced by others. Hard on the genuine ones but don't think puberty blockers a good idea. Might help a few but could screw a lot up for life.

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By *illingbtmMan
over a year ago

meath cavan

Puberty in your 20's , what kind of headcase would you be ...

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By *ldsmchubMan
over a year ago

leyland

I think I must have some natural puberty blockers in me as I never really developed from my preteen cock and ball sack . I didn’t get any pubic hair until I was late 15 which caused me to be subjected to a lot of bullying and humiliation at school .Are there any others like me out there

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By *estwillMan
over a year ago

Bracknell

Think about years ago. The psychologists and psychostrists didn't understand homosexuality. Men were given electro shock treatment, hormone treatment, even brain surgery. What if the medical establishment of today has got this puberty blocker thing wrong. I suppose only time will tell what they right thing is.

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By *ara JevoTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

I didn't follow the Kiera Bell case that closely. But from what I gleaned from it, and the other issues around the Tavistock and Portman NHS Trust for gender identity services in kids, I formed two impressions:

a) the governance of the service is poor

b) the evidence base for efficacy is poor.

NHS England appointed Dr Hilary Cass OBE, former President of the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health, to lead an independent review into gender identity services for children and young people.

The review is due to report next year.

It is good the NHS is asking experts to look into this. I'm not sure any of us on Fabguys are experts lol

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By *ammy aka SammyTV/TS
over a year ago

Bedford

Pandoras box springs to mind behold the future

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By *ulian.TV/TS
over a year ago

Louth


"Sorry but it's wrong

Shoving kids on medical drugs and allowing them to mutilate their bodies based on a fucked up ideology like Gender Identity where it's made up word salad like Genderfae Genderfauna and horseshit pronouns made up from a mixture of zodiac starsigns and vegetables

It's a mental illness based on narcissism and egotistical bullshit.

Humanity cannot change sex. A Transwoman is a Transwoman not a woman as sorry to be blunt yer genetic makeup and dna is male and no amount of hormones or surgery will make you get pregnant or have a menstrual cycle literally because your genetic biological makeup cannot change like some weird Jurassic Park montage where 'life finds a way'

I'm all for ADULTS literally living their lives based on their desire to live as they see fit but when you start the horseshit of trying to make kids as young as 4 declare they're not a girl because they wanna play with Hot Wheels or runaround in the dirt playing footie; or not a boy because they wanna play My Little Pony or bake cakes like mummy that's when yer bullshit is vying on indoctrination.

Let kids be kids not a generation of screwed up snowflakes who need therapy! "

Thanks Donald Trump.

Transphobia is clearly alive and well within the gay community.

We need more people like Tom Robinson - sing if you’re glad to be gay, even in prison they look after the queers, and fewer like Tommy Robinson. ffs!!

Their struggle is as real and valid as everything that gay/queer men went through to gain legal status and acceptance.

That they should experience trans phobia from the gay community, when we should be their allies, saddens me deeply.

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By *i omaghMan
over a year ago

omagh

Personally I think it verges on child abuse. Just look at the shit decisions kids make, then end up regretting, right up till their early 20s. Something as major as this shud be kept back to at least 18,and only given after a full psych evaluation to ensure its not temporary. As for the suicides sum1 mentioned earlier, that's just cherry picking figures to suit his argument. Yes there are cases of suicide or self harm, but there is also a huge suicide rate in post op people that regret the whole thing, but at that stage it's too late

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By *i omaghMan
over a year ago

omagh

On another note, if that's the way a grown adult feels, fair enuf. Knock ur self out with treatments and surgeries, but don't come demanding people call u by ur made up pronouns. U feel like a guy ill give u he and him. U feel like a girl ull get she her. The only one to get a hello xi from me would be Jinping in China. Same goes for the gender fluid bullshit.

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By *mbatmanMan
5 weeks ago

west end, southampton

They are now banned. Which i think is the right decision.

These drugs were developed to delay puberty for a short period for rare medical cases where someone started puberty at an early age. They weren’t developed to stop puberty all together which is what trans people want/taking them for.

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By *ookingFor...Man
5 weeks ago

West Sussex

They are banned for use on children by the NHS.

Maybe still available privately?

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By *ara JevoTV/TS
5 weeks ago

Bristol East


"They are banned for use on children by the NHS.

Maybe still available privately?"

I understand the proscription is regulatory, following a review by the Commission on Human Medicines, so it applies to any healthcare provider operating within UK, not just NHS.

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By *airFetishMan
5 weeks ago

Maldon

When a young child says “I feel like I’m in the wrong body” then what are they meaning?

How does a male child of 4 know they want tits and a vagina rather than what they were born with, given a girl of 4 doesn’t have tits and the boy has likely not seen a vagina? What does a 4 year old girl’s body have that they want but don’t have?

Or do they mean they want to play with My Little Pony? They want “pretty things” like the girls have?

I find the entire thing absolutely baffling. I can’t help feeling that instead of saying to boys and girls that they can all play with Tonka trucks, all shoot models with a Johnny 7 gun, can all try on makeup or all do dressmaking, that instead we’ve got to a place where only boys can do this and only girls can do that. If not, then what do they understand of the other sex’s body and feelings at that age that tells them they should not be a girl/boy?

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