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"Done more U turns than a black Taxi lol" Would you rather they never listened to anyone and just bludgeoned through when there was compelling evidence to change tack? | |||
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"Labour has abandoned socialism in favour of fascism" Do you know what either of these terms means? Because your post strongly suggests you don’t. | |||
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"Labour has abandoned socialism in favour of fascism Do you know what either of these terms means? Because your post strongly suggests you don’t. " Oh I do Look up AKTION T4 A 1930s policy in Nazi Germany To eradicate the weak, chronic sick, disabled & mentally ill citizens in Germany The fascist Labour Party is beginning a cull of non productive people in the UK - their despicable welfare reforms against the nations vulnerable is just the start The true socialist left wing are against this whilst the majority of fascist arselickers of Fuhrer Starmer will act like sheep to follow him Just like the Nazis who arselicked Hitlers every vile move | |||
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"Labour has abandoned socialism in favour of fascism Do you know what either of these terms means? Because your post strongly suggests you don’t. Oh I do Look up AKTION T4 A 1930s policy in Nazi Germany To eradicate the weak, chronic sick, disabled & mentally ill citizens in Germany The fascist Labour Party is beginning a cull of non productive people in the UK - their despicable welfare reforms against the nations vulnerable is just the start The true socialist left wing are against this whilst the majority of fascist arselickers of Fuhrer Starmer will act like sheep to follow him Just like the Nazis who arselicked Hitlers every vile move" Thank you for proving yourself wrong. To equate the wholesale murder of disabled people with changes to welfare reform is absolutely crass. Are you remembering that Nazi means Nationalist Socialist? Probably not. I get it, you want to stir up anti labour sentiment to get a reform government, then you are likely to see what fascism looks like. You do you… | |||
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"Labour has abandoned socialism in favour of fascism Do you know what either of these terms means? Because your post strongly suggests you don’t. "  | |||
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"Have to say...given the votes this week on Abortion and assisted suicide, the vulnerable at both ends of life have been made easier to kill off" I take it you haven’t wasted your time actually reading any actual info relating to these laws? Or are you just another reformbot3000? | |||
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"Guy lives near us, pretended for years he was disabled, they filmed him going to the gym every day and playing football. Now he certainly did not deserve benefits how many more like him are there." I dunno but what scenario would you prefer; some slip through the net but those who need can get, or no one slips through the net and loads of people who need die or live in misery because they cannot access help? It appears clearly that a perfect system is not practicable so what is your preference for imperfect? | |||
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"Guy lives near us, pretended for years he was disabled, they filmed him going to the gym every day and playing football. Now he certainly did not deserve benefits how many more like him are there." Don't really understand what this has to do with the Labour Party (which the thread is titled) , , unless of course you are pointing out that this individual was able to get away with cheating the system under the conservative government but has now been caught out under a labour government ,, in which case I get your point , *well done Labour* | |||
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"Labour has abandoned socialism in favour of fascism Do you know what either of these terms means? Because your post strongly suggests you don’t. Oh I do Look up AKTION T4 A 1930s policy in Nazi Germany To eradicate the weak, chronic sick, disabled & mentally ill citizens in Germany The fascist Labour Party is beginning a cull of non productive people in the UK - their despicable welfare reforms against the nations vulnerable is just the start The true socialist left wing are against this whilst the majority of fascist arselickers of Fuhrer Starmer will act like sheep to follow him Just like the Nazis who arselicked Hitlers every vile move Thank you for proving yourself wrong. To equate the wholesale murder of disabled people with changes to welfare reform is absolutely crass. Are you remembering that Nazi means Nationalist Socialist? Probably not. I get it, you want to stir up anti labour sentiment to get a reform government, then you are likely to see what fascism looks like. You do you… " You know nothing about me so it might surprise you that I joined the Labour Party last year and as of yet still a party member Don’t go making false assumptions Reform are a huge threat to us - the Tories are toast deservedly so With Labour having a problem with pensioners and people with disabilities they’re heading for AKTION T4 | |||
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"Labour has abandoned socialism in favour of fascism Do you know what either of these terms means? Because your post strongly suggests you don’t. Oh I do Look up AKTION T4 A 1930s policy in Nazi Germany To eradicate the weak, chronic sick, disabled & mentally ill citizens in Germany The fascist Labour Party is beginning a cull of non productive people in the UK - their despicable welfare reforms against the nations vulnerable is just the start The true socialist left wing are against this whilst the majority of fascist arselickers of Fuhrer Starmer will act like sheep to follow him Just like the Nazis who arselicked Hitlers every vile move Thank you for proving yourself wrong. To equate the wholesale murder of disabled people with changes to welfare reform is absolutely crass. Are you remembering that Nazi means Nationalist Socialist? Probably not. I get it, you want to stir up anti labour sentiment to get a reform government, then you are likely to see what fascism looks like. You do you… You know nothing about me so it might surprise you that I joined the Labour Party last year and as of yet still a party member Don’t go making false assumptions Reform are a huge threat to us - the Tories are toast deservedly so With Labour having a problem with pensioners and people with disabilities they’re heading for AKTION T4 " Wrap the performative “you don’t know me” schtick. I am making my assumptions purely based on what you write. | |||
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"Labour has abandoned socialism in favour of fascism Do you know what either of these terms means? Because your post strongly suggests you don’t. Oh I do Look up AKTION T4 A 1930s policy in Nazi Germany To eradicate the weak, chronic sick, disabled & mentally ill citizens in Germany The fascist Labour Party is beginning a cull of non productive people in the UK - their despicable welfare reforms against the nations vulnerable is just the start The true socialist left wing are against this whilst the majority of fascist arselickers of Fuhrer Starmer will act like sheep to follow him Just like the Nazis who arselicked Hitlers every vile move Thank you for proving yourself wrong. To equate the wholesale murder of disabled people with changes to welfare reform is absolutely crass. Are you remembering that Nazi means Nationalist Socialist? Probably not. I get it, you want to stir up anti labour sentiment to get a reform government, then you are likely to see what fascism looks like. You do you… You know nothing about me so it might surprise you that I joined the Labour Party last year and as of yet still a party member Don’t go making false assumptions Reform are a huge threat to us - the Tories are toast deservedly so With Labour having a problem with pensioners and people with disabilities they’re heading for AKTION T4 Wrap the performative “you don’t know me” schtick. I am making my assumptions purely based on what you write. " And likewise with you | |||
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"No, i was wondering if the whole system does need overhauling, the amount involved with the guy i mentioned was many thousands of pounds, the question i aske was, how many more like him are they?." report him to your local job centre fraud team you may get a reward | |||
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"Labour has abandoned socialism in favour of fascism" Communism you mean, they haven't been socialist for 30 years now. Certainly not fascist as they lacked anything close to nationalism... They couldn't care less about this country and it's people... | |||
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"Labour has abandoned socialism in favour of fascism Do you know what either of these terms means? Because your post strongly suggests you don’t. Oh I do Look up AKTION T4 A 1930s policy in Nazi Germany To eradicate the weak, chronic sick, disabled & mentally ill citizens in Germany The fascist Labour Party is beginning a cull of non productive people in the UK - their despicable welfare reforms against the nations vulnerable is just the start The true socialist left wing are against this whilst the majority of fascist arselickers of Fuhrer Starmer will act like sheep to follow him Just like the Nazis who arselicked Hitlers every vile move Thank you for proving yourself wrong. To equate the wholesale murder of disabled people with changes to welfare reform is absolutely crass. Are you remembering that Nazi means Nationalist Socialist? Probably not. I get it, you want to stir up anti labour sentiment to get a reform government, then you are likely to see what fascism looks like. You do you… You know nothing about me so it might surprise you that I joined the Labour Party last year and as of yet still a party member Don’t go making false assumptions Reform are a huge threat to us - the Tories are toast deservedly so With Labour having a problem with pensioners and people with disabilities they’re heading for AKTION T4 Wrap the performative “you don’t know me” schtick. I am making my assumptions purely based on what you write. And likewise with you" Great, good to know. It doesn’t really move the conversation on though. Your posts still read like a Mail reading Reformbot3000. | |||
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"No, i was wondering if the whole system does need overhauling, the amount involved with the guy i mentioned was many thousands of pounds, the question i aske was, how many more like him are they?. report him to your local job centre fraud team you may get a reward " Already been caught ,, sounds like he been getting away with it for 14 years under the Tories | |||
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"Labour has abandoned socialism in favour of fascism" Don’t be silly… I loath them with ever atom in my body but they are not fascists… the are just useless… | |||
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"Labour has abandoned socialism in favour of fascism Don’t be silly… I loath them with ever atom in my body but they are not fascists… the are just useless… " Who do you like? | |||
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"Which appears to be the right course of action given their huge majority at the last election. Nobody not even most moderate Labour supporters, want a socialist government!!" If describing Corbyn's Labour as Socialist against Starmer's Moderate Labour,,it is worth noting that Corbyn's Labour in the disastrous General Election of 2019 had more people vote Labour than voted for Starmer's Labour in the 2024 landslide victory | |||
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"Which appears to be the right course of action given their huge majority at the last election. Nobody not even most moderate Labour supporters, want a socialist government!! If describing Corbyn's Labour as Socialist against Starmer's Moderate Labour,,it is worth noting that Corbyn's Labour in the disastrous General Election of 2019 had more people vote Labour than voted for Starmer's Labour in the 2024 landslide victory " Helps to prove the point that 2024 election was anti-Tory NOT a vote for Labour. (Let alone a vote for Starmer who was one of the biggest supporters of the far-left Corbyn in 2019) | |||
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"Done more U turns than a black Taxi lol" The best party won, no matter how  | |||
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"Done more U turns than a black Taxi lol" The best party won, no matter how | |||
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"Done more U turns than a black Taxi lol The best party won, no matter how ""Best"? In what particular respect, perhaps you would kindly enlighten 🤔 | |||
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"Done more U turns than a black Taxi lol The best party won, no matter how
"Best"? In what particular respect, perhaps you would kindly enlighten 🤔"Can fool some of the people all of the time.! | |||
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"Done more U turns than a black Taxi lol The best party won, no matter how
"Best"? In what particular respect, perhaps you would kindly enlighten 🤔
Can fool some of the people all of the time.! "You've hit the nail on the head there! 😁 | |||
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"Labour has abandoned socialism in favour of fascism Do you know what either of these terms means? Because your post strongly suggests you don’t. " Fascism rejects democracy and promotes a strong, centralized state with a single, powerful leader (a dictator). | |||
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"Labour has abandoned socialism in favour of fascism Don’t be silly… I loath them with ever atom in my body but they are not fascists… the are just useless… Who do you like?" None of them…I will see how reform do in local government and if that’s a success, ie: cut out waste, less corruption, accountability and value for money I may vote for them but… | |||
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"Done more U turns than a black Taxi lol The best party won, no matter how
"Best"? In what particular respect, perhaps you would kindly enlighten 🤔"They got enough votes to have a government, enough said | |||
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"Done more U turns than a black Taxi lol The best party won, no matter how
"Best"? In what particular respect, perhaps you would kindly enlighten 🤔
They got enough votes to have a government, enough said "Lying and gaslighting to get the most votes does not mean they were/are the best party. | |||
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"Done more U turns than a black Taxi lol The best party won, no matter how
"Best"? In what particular respect, perhaps you would kindly enlighten 🤔
They got enough votes to have a government, enough said "Parliamentary Seats rather than votes I think you mean!! The July 2024 General Election results highlights the disparity between vote share and parliamentary representation. Labour secured 33.7% of the votes but holds a disproportionate number of seats. Meanwhile, 66.3% of the electorate voted for parties other than Labour, highlighting the need for a more proportional representation system. The vote share breakdown is as follows:- - Labour Party: 9,708,716 votes (33.7% of total votes) - Conservative Party: 6,828,925 votes (23.7% of total votes) - Liberal Democrats: 3,519,143 votes (12.2% of total votes) - Reform UK: 4,117,610 votes (14.3% of total votes) - Green Party: 1,843,124 votes (6.4% of total votes) - Scottish National Party (SNP): 724,758 votes (2.5% of total votes) - Sinn Féin: 210,891 votes (0.7% of total votes) - Democratic Unionist Party (DUP): 172,058 votes (0.6% of total votes) - Plaid Cymru: 194,811 votes (0.7% of total votes) This discrepancy between vote share and seat allocation fuels the debate on electoral reform, with many arguing for a more proportional system to ensure accurate representation of the electorate's preferences. | |||
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"Labour has abandoned socialism in favour of fascism" you mean communism lmao never voting Labour ever again. | |||
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"In a proportional representation system based on the 2024 UK election votes, the seat allocation would be:- - Labour: 219 seats - Conservative: 154 seats - Reform UK: 93 seats - Liberal Democrats: 79 seats - Green Party: 42 seats - Others: 63 seats Labour would not have a majority (326 seats needed), and would likely need to form coalitions or negotiate with other parties to govern. This highlights the potential for a more representative parliament, but also the challenges of forming stable governments in a proportional system." PR is how the most effective and stable governments around the world operate. At least those who are not dictatorships. | |||
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"PR is how the most effective and stable governments around the world operate. At least those who are not dictatorships. " I agree entirely, as you say, Proportional Representation is used by many of the world's most effective and stable governments. It ensures that parliament accurately reflects the views of the electorate and promotes collaborative decision-making. This leads to more stable and sustainable governance, better equipped to address complex challenges. By adopting PR, the UK could benefit from more representative and inclusive government. | |||
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"The Labour Party lied their was into office and basically became text book fascist. fascism /fash′iz″{¬yZk=¬}m/ noun A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, a capitalist economy subject to stringent governmental controls, violent suppression of the opposition, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism. A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government. " This is about Smarmer not Trumpet | |||
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"PR is how the most effective and stable governments around the world operate. At least those who are not dictatorships. I agree entirely, as you say, Proportional Representation is used by many of the world's most effective and stable governments. It ensures that parliament accurately reflects the views of the electorate and promotes collaborative decision-making. This leads to more stable and sustainable governance, better equipped to address complex challenges. By adopting PR, the UK could benefit from more representative and inclusive government. " I agree, it would also give the more conservative and left leaning parts of the population a proper voice in parliament meaning that they didn’t constantly feel like their voices were being ignored and marginalised by centrists who like to pretend they don’t count because they are too mad. I say that as a centrist, it is one of the biggest failings of my species. | |||
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"PR is how the most effective and stable governments around the world operate. At least those who are not dictatorships. I agree entirely, as you say, Proportional Representation is used by many of the world's most effective and stable governments. It ensures that parliament accurately reflects the views of the electorate and promotes collaborative decision-making. This leads to more stable and sustainable governance, better equipped to address complex challenges. By adopting PR, the UK could benefit from more representative and inclusive government. I agree, it would also give the more conservative and left leaning parts of the population a proper voice in parliament meaning that they didn’t constantly feel like their voices were being ignored and marginalised by centrists who like to pretend they don’t count because they are too mad. I say that as a centrist, it is one of the biggest failings of my species. " That's an totally pertinent point. Proportional Representation would indeed give a stronger voice to both conservative and left-leaning elements of the population, ensuring their views are represented and valued in parliament. By doing so, it would help address the feeling of marginalisation that many people on both sides of the spectrum experience under the current system. Your self-awareness as a centrist is refreshing, and your willingness to acknowledge the limitations of centrism in this context is commendable. Well said! 🙂👍 | |||
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"Labour has abandoned socialism in favour of fascism you mean communism lmao never voting Labour ever again." Looking back to the last century and countries run by fascist or communist dictatorships, there wasn't a lot to choose between them. Both got rid of opposition and staged sham election. Locked up opponents or made them 'disappear'. Both controlled the press, clamped down on free speech and effectively ran a 'midnight knock' police state. Both operated state control over everything and industry in particular. Whilst communists nationalised everything fascists allowed 'free enterprise' under very strict regulations, so not much difference. | |||
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"I must confess to be a little confused with this thread, the labour party gained power with promises before the last election, now some are suggesting that it is alright to change their minds now they are in power and the British people should be pleased with that they got it wrong? " Labour supporters tying themselves in knots again...  | |||
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"PR is how the most effective and stable governments around the world operate. At least those who are not dictatorships. I agree entirely, as you say, Proportional Representation is used by many of the world's most effective and stable governments. It ensures that parliament accurately reflects the views of the electorate and promotes collaborative decision-making. This leads to more stable and sustainable governance, better equipped to address complex challenges. By adopting PR, the UK could benefit from more representative and inclusive government. I agree, it would also give the more conservative and left leaning parts of the population a proper voice in parliament meaning that they didn’t constantly feel like their voices were being ignored and marginalised by centrists who like to pretend they don’t count because they are too mad. I say that as a centrist, it is one of the biggest failings of my species. That's an totally pertinent point. Proportional Representation would indeed give a stronger voice to both conservative and left-leaning elements of the population, ensuring their views are represented and valued in parliament. By doing so, it would help address the feeling of marginalisation that many people on both sides of the spectrum experience under the current system. Your self-awareness as a centrist is refreshing, and your willingness to acknowledge the limitations of centrism in this context is commendable. Well said! 🙂👍 " PR sounds good but in practice it leads to a dilution of policies which please no one and weak government because of fallings out which leads to frequent elections . | |||
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"PR sounds good but in practice it leads to a dilution of policies which please no one and weak government because of fallings out which leads to frequent elections ." While it's true that PR can lead to coalition governments and potentially more complex decision-making, it also offers a more nuanced reflection of the electorate's diverse views. Under first-past-the-post systems, governments can be formed with less than 50% of the vote, potentially disregarding the wishes of nearly half the population! In practice, countries with PR systems, such as Germany, Sweden and New Zealand, have demonstrated stable governments and effective policymaking. These systems can lead to more broadly supported policies and a more accurate representation of the people's will. Ultimately, the primary goal of any government is to represent and protect the interests of the people who elected them, and PR offers a system that more accurately reflects the will of the people, ensuring their voices are heard and maintaining trust and legitimacy in government, qualities which seem at best, minimal in the current administration. | |||
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"The people with money are leaving this country in droves because of the tax Starmer really is a bell end tories tried that before labour didn't learn anything from the fuck up from the Tories Labour really are clueless " That isn't actually happening though. It was reported just the other day. I guess you must have missed it.  | |||
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"PR is how the most effective and stable governments around the world operate. At least those who are not dictatorships. I agree entirely, as you say, Proportional Representation is used by many of the world's most effective and stable governments. It ensures that parliament accurately reflects the views of the electorate and promotes collaborative decision-making. This leads to more stable and sustainable governance, better equipped to address complex challenges. By adopting PR, the UK could benefit from more representative and inclusive government. I agree, it would also give the more conservative and left leaning parts of the population a proper voice in parliament meaning that they didn’t constantly feel like their voices were being ignored and marginalised by centrists who like to pretend they don’t count because they are too mad. I say that as a centrist, it is one of the biggest failings of my species. That's an totally pertinent point. Proportional Representation would indeed give a stronger voice to both conservative and left-leaning elements of the population, ensuring their views are represented and valued in parliament. By doing so, it would help address the feeling of marginalisation that many people on both sides of the spectrum experience under the current system. Your self-awareness as a centrist is refreshing, and your willingness to acknowledge the limitations of centrism in this context is commendable. Well said! 🙂👍 PR sounds good but in practice it leads to a dilution of policies which please no one and weak government because of fallings out which leads to frequent elections ." Reality just doesn’t bear that up | |||
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"The people with money are leaving this country in droves because of the tax Starmer really is a bell end tories tried that before labour didn't learn anything from the fuck up from the Tories Labour really are clueless " Yea that’s just not true because the people you speak of don’t actually pay that tax because none of them take a salary. It’s all just nonsense fed to you by agitators | |||
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"PR is how the most effective and stable governments around the world operate. At least those who are not dictatorships. I agree entirely, as you say, Proportional Representation is used by many of the world's most effective and stable governments. It ensures that parliament accurately reflects the views of the electorate and promotes collaborative decision-making. This leads to more stable and sustainable governance, better equipped to address complex challenges. By adopting PR, the UK could benefit from more representative and inclusive government. I agree, it would also give the more conservative and left leaning parts of the population a proper voice in parliament meaning that they didn’t constantly feel like their voices were being ignored and marginalised by centrists who like to pretend they don’t count because they are too mad. I say that as a centrist, it is one of the biggest failings of my species. That's an totally pertinent point. Proportional Representation would indeed give a stronger voice to both conservative and left-leaning elements of the population, ensuring their views are represented and valued in parliament. By doing so, it would help address the feeling of marginalisation that many people on both sides of the spectrum experience under the current system. Your self-awareness as a centrist is refreshing, and your willingness to acknowledge the limitations of centrism in this context is commendable. Well said! 🙂👍 PR sounds good but in practice it leads to a dilution of policies which please no one and weak government because of fallings out which leads to frequent elections . Reality just doesn’t bear that up" Exactly, countries with PR systems, such as Germany, Sweden and New Zealand, have demonstrated stable governments and effective policymaking, qualities lacking in the UK under our archaic, outdated, First past the post electoral system! | |||
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"PR is how the most effective and stable governments around the world operate. At least those who are not dictatorships. I agree entirely, as you say, Proportional Representation is used by many of the world's most effective and stable governments. It ensures that parliament accurately reflects the views of the electorate and promotes collaborative decision-making. This leads to more stable and sustainable governance, better equipped to address complex challenges. By adopting PR, the UK could benefit from more representative and inclusive government. I agree, it would also give the more conservative and left leaning parts of the population a proper voice in parliament meaning that they didn’t constantly feel like their voices were being ignored and marginalised by centrists who like to pretend they don’t count because they are too mad. I say that as a centrist, it is one of the biggest failings of my species. That's an totally pertinent point. Proportional Representation would indeed give a stronger voice to both conservative and left-leaning elements of the population, ensuring their views are represented and valued in parliament. By doing so, it would help address the feeling of marginalisation that many people on both sides of the spectrum experience under the current system. Your self-awareness as a centrist is refreshing, and your willingness to acknowledge the limitations of centrism in this context is commendable. Well said! 🙂👍 PR sounds good but in practice it leads to a dilution of policies which please no one and weak government because of fallings out which leads to frequent elections . Reality just doesn’t bear that up Exactly, countries with PR systems, such as Germany, Sweden and New Zealand, have demonstrated stable governments and effective policymaking, qualities lacking in the UK under our archaic, outdated, First past the post electoral system! " Yea but if we do that my team won’t have as much hegemony so I need to keep pretending what you said didn’t happen | |||
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"PR sounds good but in practice it leads to a dilution of policies which please no one and weak government because of fallings out which leads to frequent elections . Reality just doesn’t bear that up Exactly, countries with PR systems, such as Germany, Sweden and New Zealand, have demonstrated stable governments and effective policymaking, qualities lacking in the UK under our archaic, outdated, First past the post electoral system! Yea but if we do that my team won’t have as much hegemony so I need to keep pretending what you said didn’t happen " Fair representation of the people is more important than any one particular team's / party's power. A PR system would ensure that every vote counts and every voice is heard. It's time to prioritise the people's interests over party dominance. Let's have a system that truly reflects the will of the people, rather than just serving the interests of those in power. | |||
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"PR sounds good but in practice it leads to a dilution of policies which please no one and weak government because of fallings out which leads to frequent elections . Reality just doesn’t bear that up Exactly, countries with PR systems, such as Germany, Sweden and New Zealand, have demonstrated stable governments and effective policymaking, qualities lacking in the UK under our archaic, outdated, First past the post electoral system! Yea but if we do that my team won’t have as much hegemony so I need to keep pretending what you said didn’t happen Fair representation of the people is more important than any one particular team's / party's power. A PR system would ensure that every vote counts and every voice is heard. It's time to prioritise the people's interests over party dominance. Let's have a system that truly reflects the will of the people, rather than just serving the interests of those in power." That’s not very British is it? I mean I absolutely agree with you!! | |||
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"PR sounds good but in practice it leads to a dilution of policies which please no one and weak government because of fallings out which leads to frequent elections . Reality just doesn’t bear that up Exactly, countries with PR systems, such as Germany, Sweden and New Zealand, have demonstrated stable governments and effective policymaking, qualities lacking in the UK under our archaic, outdated, First past the post electoral system! Yea but if we do that my team won’t have as much hegemony so I need to keep pretending what you said didn’t happen Fair representation of the people is more important than any one particular team's / party's power. A PR system would ensure that every vote counts and every voice is heard. It's time to prioritise the people's interests over party dominance. Let's have a system that truly reflects the will of the people, rather than just serving the interests of those in power. That’s not very British is it? I mean I absolutely agree with you!! " Not very British at all!!😁... The UK's democratic system is in dire need of reform. In contrast to Norway's highly ranked democracy, the UK's system is woefully outdated. Norway's democracy excels due to its well-established electoral process, featuring open-list proportional representation, effective and accountable governance, active citizen participation, a strong democratic culture, and robust protection of civil liberties and individual freedoms. The UK would benefit from adopting a similar parliamentary representative democratic constitutional monarchy. The UK's voting system, rooted in the 1872 Ballot Act, is archaic. The outdated practice of marking an X on a piece of paper and manually counting votes is inefficient, particularly when compared to modern technological capabilities. Furthermore, the "First Past the Post" system is increasingly seen as flawed. It's high time the UK modernised its electoral system, prioritising efficiency, economy, and representation that truly reflects its citizens' needs, by adopting a Proportional Representation (PR) system that would provide a more accurate and fair reflection of the electorate's views.... but as you say that's just not very British is it? 🙄 | |||
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"Labour has abandoned socialism in favour of fascism Do you know what either of these terms means? Because your post strongly suggests you don’t. Oh I do Look up AKTION T4 A 1930s policy in Nazi Germany To eradicate the weak, chronic sick, disabled & mentally ill citizens in Germany The fascist Labour Party is beginning a cull of non productive people in the UK - their despicable welfare reforms against the nations vulnerable is just the start The true socialist left wing are against this whilst the majority of fascist arselickers of Fuhrer Starmer will act like sheep to follow him Just like the Nazis who arselicked Hitlers every vile move" Please ask yourself, who did this to you. You have been conned. | |||
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"The people with money are leaving this country in droves because of the tax Starmer really is a bell end tories tried that before labour didn't learn anything from the fuck up from the Tories Labour really are clueless " Do you still read the sun? | |||
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"Done more U turns than a black Taxi lol" Loooool that made me chuckle 🤭 I don't know politics is just a bunch of waste of time haha | |||
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"I did vote Labour at The General Election but mainly an anti Tory vote rather than a vote for Labour , I think they have made errors, the winter fuel payment decision was politically nieve , , but I don't get the stick they are getting for U-Turns , if you make a mistake or realise something can be done better then best to change , not to bury your head in the sand and stick your fingers in your ears " I agree, however this sort of conversation does show up the catch 22 that politicians face. There is always someone screeching no matter what they do. No wonder they don’t bother to say anything of any substance anymore, it’s not worth it! | |||
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"Which appears to be the right course of action given their huge majority at the last election. Nobody not even most moderate Labour supporters, want a socialist government!!" Yet Corbyn got more votes in 2019 than Starmer in 2024... | |||
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"Which appears to be the right course of action given their huge majority at the last election. Nobody not even most moderate Labour supporters, want a socialist government!! Yet Corbyn got more votes in 2019 than Starmer in 2024..." Yea, didn’t do much good did it? | |||
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"I did vote Labour at The General Election but mainly an anti Tory vote rather than a vote for Labour , I think they have made errors, the winter fuel payment decision was politically nieve , , but I don't get the stick they are getting for U-Turns , if you make a mistake or realise something can be done better then best to change , not to bury your head in the sand and stick your fingers in your ears I agree, however this sort of conversation does show up the catch 22 that politicians face. There is always someone screeching no matter what they do. No wonder they don’t bother to say anything of any substance anymore, it’s not worth it!" Thats the whole point of being a leader.... you need to lead. Starmer and his Cabinet blow with the wind. Gaslighting us as they go... | |||
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"I did vote Labour at The General Election but mainly an anti Tory vote rather than a vote for Labour , I think they have made errors, the winter fuel payment decision was politically nieve , , but I don't get the stick they are getting for U-Turns , if you make a mistake or realise something can be done better then best to change , not to bury your head in the sand and stick your fingers in your ears I agree, however this sort of conversation does show up the catch 22 that politicians face. There is always someone screeching no matter what they do. No wonder they don’t bother to say anything of any substance anymore, it’s not worth it! Thats the whole point of being a leader.... you need to lead. Starmer and his Cabinet blow with the wind. Gaslighting us as they go... " What do you mean by lead? Leadership isn’t just doing what you want, it’s about looking at the world and charting the best course. Liz Truss did what she wanted, we will be paying for that for generations. It seems that you prefer willful incompetence instead of thoughtful adaption to changing circumstances. Wheeling out and misusing the trite, hackneyed old “gaslighting” phrase supports my point very well, thank you. | |||
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"Which appears to be the right course of action given their huge majority at the last election. Nobody not even most moderate Labour supporters, want a socialist government!! Yet Corbyn got more votes in 2019 than Starmer in 2024..." I'm no fan of Corbyn, and I think Starmer's Labour leadership has been totally underwhelming but that's a discussion for another time. However, the fact remains that Corbyn polled more votes in 2019 than Starmer did in 2024. This stark contrast highlights the flaws in our electoral system, which fails to accurately reflect the will of the people. It's high time our system underwent modernisation to better represent the nation's diverse views. | |||
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"I did vote Labour at The General Election but mainly an anti Tory vote rather than a vote for Labour , I think they have made errors, the winter fuel payment decision was politically nieve , , but I don't get the stick they are getting for U-Turns , if you make a mistake or realise something can be done better then best to change , not to bury your head in the sand and stick your fingers in your ears I agree, however this sort of conversation does show up the catch 22 that politicians face. There is always someone screeching no matter what they do. No wonder they don’t bother to say anything of any substance anymore, it’s not worth it! Thats the whole point of being a leader.... you need to lead. Starmer and his Cabinet blow with the wind. Gaslighting us as they go... What do you mean by lead? Leadership isn’t just doing what you want, it’s about looking at the world and charting the best course. Liz Truss did what she wanted, we will be paying for that for generations. It seems that you prefer willful incompetence instead of thoughtful adaption to changing circumstances. Wheeling out and misusing the trite, hackneyed old “gaslighting” phrase supports my point very well, thank you. " I repeat being gaslit.. can you explain how future generations will be paying for Liz Truss's decisions? That may be the Labour 'line' but where are the facts? The world has moved on and the UK economy is crashing under Labour's policies with more to come. | |||
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"I did vote Labour at The General Election but mainly an anti Tory vote rather than a vote for Labour , I think they have made errors, the winter fuel payment decision was politically nieve , , but I don't get the stick they are getting for U-Turns , if you make a mistake or realise something can be done better then best to change , not to bury your head in the sand and stick your fingers in your ears I agree, however this sort of conversation does show up the catch 22 that politicians face. There is always someone screeching no matter what they do. No wonder they don’t bother to say anything of any substance anymore, it’s not worth it! Thats the whole point of being a leader.... you need to lead. Starmer and his Cabinet blow with the wind. Gaslighting us as they go... What do you mean by lead? Leadership isn’t just doing what you want, it’s about looking at the world and charting the best course. Liz Truss did what she wanted, we will be paying for that for generations. It seems that you prefer willful incompetence instead of thoughtful adaption to changing circumstances. Wheeling out and misusing the trite, hackneyed old “gaslighting” phrase supports my point very well, thank you. I repeat being gaslit.. can you explain how future generations will be paying for Liz Truss's decisions? That may be the Labour 'line' but where are the facts? The world has moved on and the UK economy is crashing under Labour's policies with more to come." Liz Truss evaporated tens of billions from the exchequer’s balance sheet and gave it to her pals in the city, therefore the government since then and for a long time to come, cannot afford to run basic services that we still need, the failure to run them has an ongoing costly effect which continues to snowball today. If that’s the sort of leadership you want, absolutely up to you, but I don’t think you will ever get the outcomes you are looking for from it. You can repeat your misappropriation of a very fashionable phrase, it doesn’t make it any more accurate. | |||
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"I did vote Labour at The General Election but mainly an anti Tory vote rather than a vote for Labour , I think they have made errors, the winter fuel payment decision was politically nieve , , but I don't get the stick they are getting for U-Turns , if you make a mistake or realise something can be done better then best to change , not to bury your head in the sand and stick your fingers in your ears I agree, however this sort of conversation does show up the catch 22 that politicians face. There is always someone screeching no matter what they do. No wonder they don’t bother to say anything of any substance anymore, it’s not worth it! Thats the whole point of being a leader.... you need to lead. Starmer and his Cabinet blow with the wind. Gaslighting us as they go... What do you mean by lead? Leadership isn’t just doing what you want, it’s about looking at the world and charting the best course. Liz Truss did what she wanted, we will be paying for that for generations. It seems that you prefer willful incompetence instead of thoughtful adaption to changing circumstances. Wheeling out and misusing the trite, hackneyed old “gaslighting” phrase supports my point very well, thank you. I repeat being gaslit.. can you explain how future generations will be paying for Liz Truss's decisions? That may be the Labour 'line' but where are the facts? The world has moved on and the UK economy is crashing under Labour's policies with more to come. Liz Truss evaporated tens of billions from the exchequer’s balance sheet and gave it to her pals in the city, therefore the government since then and for a long time to come, cannot afford to run basic services that we still need, the failure to run them has an ongoing costly effect which continues to snowball today. If that’s the sort of leadership you want, absolutely up to you, but I don’t think you will ever get the outcomes you are looking for from it. You can repeat your misappropriation of a very fashionable phrase, it doesn’t make it any more accurate. " Lots of generalities in that reply. When did she give any money to her 'friends' in the City? How many millions? (Remember it was the money markets that brought her down). If you don't like the word gaslight then maybe we should resort to the old fashioned word... lie. | |||
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"I did vote Labour at The General Election but mainly an anti Tory vote rather than a vote for Labour , I think they have made errors, the winter fuel payment decision was politically nieve , , but I don't get the stick they are getting for U-Turns , if you make a mistake or realise something can be done better then best to change , not to bury your head in the sand and stick your fingers in your ears I agree, however this sort of conversation does show up the catch 22 that politicians face. There is always someone screeching no matter what they do. No wonder they don’t bother to say anything of any substance anymore, it’s not worth it! Thats the whole point of being a leader.... you need to lead. Starmer and his Cabinet blow with the wind. Gaslighting us as they go... What do you mean by lead? Leadership isn’t just doing what you want, it’s about looking at the world and charting the best course. Liz Truss did what she wanted, we will be paying for that for generations. It seems that you prefer willful incompetence instead of thoughtful adaption to changing circumstances. Wheeling out and misusing the trite, hackneyed old “gaslighting” phrase supports my point very well, thank you. I repeat being gaslit.. can you explain how future generations will be paying for Liz Truss's decisions? That may be the Labour 'line' but where are the facts? The world has moved on and the UK economy is crashing under Labour's policies with more to come. Liz Truss evaporated tens of billions from the exchequer’s balance sheet and gave it to her pals in the city, therefore the government since then and for a long time to come, cannot afford to run basic services that we still need, the failure to run them has an ongoing costly effect which continues to snowball today. If that’s the sort of leadership you want, absolutely up to you, but I don’t think you will ever get the outcomes you are looking for from it. You can repeat your misappropriation of a very fashionable phrase, it doesn’t make it any more accurate. Lots of generalities in that reply. When did she give any money to her 'friends' in the City? How many millions? (Remember it was the money markets that brought her down). If you don't like the word gaslight then maybe we should resort to the old fashioned word... lie." Hang on, how come generalities are suddenly a problem when they have absolutely populated this discussion from the outset, further deflection from the points you are absolutely doing all you can to push to one side. Keep deflecting. Avoid the point at all costs. | |||
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"I did vote Labour at The General Election but mainly an anti Tory vote rather than a vote for Labour , I think they have made errors, the winter fuel payment decision was politically nieve , , but I don't get the stick they are getting for U-Turns , if you make a mistake or realise something can be done better then best to change , not to bury your head in the sand and stick your fingers in your ears I agree, however this sort of conversation does show up the catch 22 that politicians face. There is always someone screeching no matter what they do. No wonder they don’t bother to say anything of any substance anymore, it’s not worth it! Thats the whole point of being a leader.... you need to lead. Starmer and his Cabinet blow with the wind. Gaslighting us as they go... What do you mean by lead? Leadership isn’t just doing what you want, it’s about looking at the world and charting the best course. Liz Truss did what she wanted, we will be paying for that for generations. It seems that you prefer willful incompetence instead of thoughtful adaption to changing circumstances. Wheeling out and misusing the trite, hackneyed old “gaslighting” phrase supports my point very well, thank you. I repeat being gaslit.. can you explain how future generations will be paying for Liz Truss's decisions? That may be the Labour 'line' but where are the facts? The world has moved on and the UK economy is crashing under Labour's policies with more to come. Liz Truss evaporated tens of billions from the exchequer’s balance sheet and gave it to her pals in the city, therefore the government since then and for a long time to come, cannot afford to run basic services that we still need, the failure to run them has an ongoing costly effect which continues to snowball today. If that’s the sort of leadership you want, absolutely up to you, but I don’t think you will ever get the outcomes you are looking for from it. You can repeat your misappropriation of a very fashionable phrase, it doesn’t make it any more accurate. Lots of generalities in that reply. When did she give any money to her 'friends' in the City? How many millions? (Remember it was the money markets that brought her down). If you don't like the word gaslight then maybe we should resort to the old fashioned word... lie. Hang on, how come generalities are suddenly a problem when they have absolutely populated this discussion from the outset, further deflection from the points you are absolutely doing all you can to push to one side. Keep deflecting. Avoid the point at all costs. " Think you're deflecting. Having stated an opinion as though it's fact, I challenged you for some facts, and you dodged the challenge. | |||
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"I did vote Labour at The General Election but mainly an anti Tory vote rather than a vote for Labour , I think they have made errors, the winter fuel payment decision was politically nieve , , but I don't get the stick they are getting for U-Turns , if you make a mistake or realise something can be done better then best to change , not to bury your head in the sand and stick your fingers in your ears I agree, however this sort of conversation does show up the catch 22 that politicians face. There is always someone screeching no matter what they do. No wonder they don’t bother to say anything of any substance anymore, it’s not worth it! Thats the whole point of being a leader.... you need to lead. Starmer and his Cabinet blow with the wind. Gaslighting us as they go... What do you mean by lead? Leadership isn’t just doing what you want, it’s about looking at the world and charting the best course. Liz Truss did what she wanted, we will be paying for that for generations. It seems that you prefer willful incompetence instead of thoughtful adaption to changing circumstances. Wheeling out and misusing the trite, hackneyed old “gaslighting” phrase supports my point very well, thank you. I repeat being gaslit.. can you explain how future generations will be paying for Liz Truss's decisions? That may be the Labour 'line' but where are the facts? The world has moved on and the UK economy is crashing under Labour's policies with more to come. Liz Truss evaporated tens of billions from the exchequer’s balance sheet and gave it to her pals in the city, therefore the government since then and for a long time to come, cannot afford to run basic services that we still need, the failure to run them has an ongoing costly effect which continues to snowball today. If that’s the sort of leadership you want, absolutely up to you, but I don’t think you will ever get the outcomes you are looking for from it. You can repeat your misappropriation of a very fashionable phrase, it doesn’t make it any more accurate. Lots of generalities in that reply. When did she give any money to her 'friends' in the City? How many millions? (Remember it was the money markets that brought her down). If you don't like the word gaslight then maybe we should resort to the old fashioned word... lie. Hang on, how come generalities are suddenly a problem when they have absolutely populated this discussion from the outset, further deflection from the points you are absolutely doing all you can to push to one side. Keep deflecting. Avoid the point at all costs. Think you're deflecting. Having stated an opinion as though it's fact, I challenged you for some facts, and you dodged the challenge. " Challenged me for some facts? Can you explain precisely what you are looking for then, bearing in mind the context? Or are you using “facts” as a way to refuse to engage with anything that you don’t like the sound of? | |||
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"I did vote Labour at The General Election but mainly an anti Tory vote rather than a vote for Labour , I think they have made errors, the winter fuel payment decision was politically nieve , , but I don't get the stick they are getting for U-Turns , if you make a mistake or realise something can be done better then best to change , not to bury your head in the sand and stick your fingers in your ears I agree, however this sort of conversation does show up the catch 22 that politicians face. There is always someone screeching no matter what they do. No wonder they don’t bother to say anything of any substance anymore, it’s not worth it! Thats the whole point of being a leader.... you need to lead. Starmer and his Cabinet blow with the wind. Gaslighting us as they go... What do you mean by lead? Leadership isn’t just doing what you want, it’s about looking at the world and charting the best course. Liz Truss did what she wanted, we will be paying for that for generations. It seems that you prefer willful incompetence instead of thoughtful adaption to changing circumstances. Wheeling out and misusing the trite, hackneyed old “gaslighting” phrase supports my point very well, thank you. I repeat being gaslit.. can you explain how future generations will be paying for Liz Truss's decisions? That may be the Labour 'line' but where are the facts? The world has moved on and the UK economy is crashing under Labour's policies with more to come." .... .... 'Crashing' is an emotive word. What independent sources -devoid of allegiance to the tories or farage- might give credence to what you claim? | |||
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"I did vote Labour at The General Election but mainly an anti Tory vote rather than a vote for Labour , I think they have made errors, the winter fuel payment decision was politically nieve , , but I don't get the stick they are getting for U-Turns , if you make a mistake or realise something can be done better then best to change , not to bury your head in the sand and stick your fingers in your ears I agree, however this sort of conversation does show up the catch 22 that politicians face. There is always someone screeching no matter what they do. No wonder they don’t bother to say anything of any substance anymore, it’s not worth it! Thats the whole point of being a leader.... you need to lead. Starmer and his Cabinet blow with the wind. Gaslighting us as they go... What do you mean by lead? Leadership isn’t just doing what you want, it’s about looking at the world and charting the best course. Liz Truss did what she wanted, we will be paying for that for generations. It seems that you prefer willful incompetence instead of thoughtful adaption to changing circumstances. Wheeling out and misusing the trite, hackneyed old “gaslighting” phrase supports my point very well, thank you. I repeat being gaslit.. can you explain how future generations will be paying for Liz Truss's decisions? That may be the Labour 'line' but where are the facts? The world has moved on and the UK economy is crashing under Labour's policies with more to come. Liz Truss evaporated tens of billions from the exchequer’s balance sheet and gave it to her pals in the city, therefore the government since then and for a long time to come, cannot afford to run basic services that we still need, the failure to run them has an ongoing costly effect which continues to snowball today. If that’s the sort of leadership you want, absolutely up to you, but I don’t think you will ever get the outcomes you are looking for from it. You can repeat your misappropriation of a very fashionable phrase, it doesn’t make it any more accurate. Lots of generalities in that reply. When did she give any money to her 'friends' in the City? How many millions? (Remember it was the money markets that brought her down). If you don't like the word gaslight then maybe we should resort to the old fashioned word... lie. Hang on, how come generalities are suddenly a problem when they have absolutely populated this discussion from the outset, further deflection from the points you are absolutely doing all you can to push to one side. Keep deflecting. Avoid the point at all costs. Think you're deflecting. Having stated an opinion as though it's fact, I challenged you for some facts, and you dodged the challenge. Challenged me for some facts? Can you explain precisely what you are looking for then, bearing in mind the context? Or are you using “facts” as a way to refuse to engage with anything that you don’t like the sound of? " More deflection. Read our discussion above. | |||
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"Labour has abandoned socialism in favour of fascism" .... ... ... Satire? | |||
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"Done more U turns than a black Taxi lol Would you rather they never listened to anyone and just bludgeoned through when there was compelling evidence to change tack?" You are clearly missing the point. They have had 14 years in opposition to formulate policy decisions and commitments that have to 'turn to dust' does not strike me as competent | |||
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"I did vote Labour at The General Election but mainly an anti Tory vote rather than a vote for Labour , I think they have made errors, the winter fuel payment decision was politically nieve , , but I don't get the stick they are getting for U-Turns , if you make a mistake or realise something can be done better then best to change , not to bury your head in the sand and stick your fingers in your ears I agree, however this sort of conversation does show up the catch 22 that politicians face. There is always someone screeching no matter what they do. No wonder they don’t bother to say anything of any substance anymore, it’s not worth it! Thats the whole point of being a leader.... you need to lead. Starmer and his Cabinet blow with the wind. Gaslighting us as they go... What do you mean by lead? Leadership isn’t just doing what you want, it’s about looking at the world and charting the best course. Liz Truss did what she wanted, we will be paying for that for generations. It seems that you prefer willful incompetence instead of thoughtful adaption to changing circumstances. Wheeling out and misusing the trite, hackneyed old “gaslighting” phrase supports my point very well, thank you. I repeat being gaslit.. can you explain how future generations will be paying for Liz Truss's decisions? That may be the Labour 'line' but where are the facts? The world has moved on and the UK economy is crashing under Labour's policies with more to come. Liz Truss evaporated tens of billions from the exchequer’s balance sheet and gave it to her pals in the city, therefore the government since then and for a long time to come, cannot afford to run basic services that we still need, the failure to run them has an ongoing costly effect which continues to snowball today. If that’s the sort of leadership you want, absolutely up to you, but I don’t think you will ever get the outcomes you are looking for from it. You can repeat your misappropriation of a very fashionable phrase, it doesn’t make it any more accurate. " The country's situation now is heading for being far worse than Liz Truss cooked up | |||
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"Done more U turns than a black Taxi lol Would you rather they never listened to anyone and just bludgeoned through when there was compelling evidence to change tack? You are clearly missing the point. They have had 14 years in opposition to formulate policy decisions and commitments that have to 'turn to dust' does not strike me as competent " ..... 🏴 You've overlooked the obvious-Labour had three different leaders in opposition. Corbyn's policies differed to the other two. The formulation you talk wasn't specifically releted to one set of policies🏴 | |||
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"Done more U turns than a black Taxi lol Would you rather they never listened to anyone and just bludgeoned through when there was compelling evidence to change tack? You are clearly missing the point. They have had 14 years in opposition to formulate policy decisions and commitments that have to 'turn to dust' does not strike me as competent " Bit ridiculous to expect possible policies from 2012 to be relevant in 2025. | |||
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"The UK is most definitely Fucked no matter what political party is in power no magic wands going to fix it , involvement in Ukraine and Israel assistance in middle east conflicts will not help either , the world is now all about greed and more greed , politicians are mostly scumbags not to be trusted about anything it would seem " The world that Maggie built | |||
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"I did vote Labour at The General Election but mainly an anti Tory vote rather than a vote for Labour , I think they have made errors, the winter fuel payment decision was politically nieve , , but I don't get the stick they are getting for U-Turns , if you make a mistake or realise something can be done better then best to change , not to bury your head in the sand and stick your fingers in your ears I agree, however this sort of conversation does show up the catch 22 that politicians face. There is always someone screeching no matter what they do. No wonder they don’t bother to say anything of any substance anymore, it’s not worth it! Thats the whole point of being a leader.... you need to lead. Starmer and his Cabinet blow with the wind. Gaslighting us as they go... What do you mean by lead? Leadership isn’t just doing what you want, it’s about looking at the world and charting the best course. Liz Truss did what she wanted, we will be paying for that for generations. It seems that you prefer willful incompetence instead of thoughtful adaption to changing circumstances. Wheeling out and misusing the trite, hackneyed old “gaslighting” phrase supports my point very well, thank you. I repeat being gaslit.. can you explain how future generations will be paying for Liz Truss's decisions? That may be the Labour 'line' but where are the facts? The world has moved on and the UK economy is crashing under Labour's policies with more to come. .... .... 'Crashing' is an emotive word. What independent sources -devoid of allegiance to the tories or farage- might give credence to what you claim?" The OFS is a good place to start. Any word is emotive if you are emotional, so that’s a bit of a non sequitur argument. The simple balance sheet of the UK exchequer is another simple place to look. How much money did the government have before Truss, how much did it have after Truss? The simple information is out there, and playing the contrarian yelling “show me facts” on a forum thread doesn't change that. All this discussion does is make you think you are winning a discussion, but the basic facts of the matter don’t change. | |||
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"That’s the stupidest thing i think i’ve ever read on the internet" Can you be more specific, there is a lot of stupid stuff on this thread!  | |||
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"Do you think that everyone who claims benefits of whatever type, are all entitled and there is no fraud. The welfare budget is spiralling out of control but no one wants the government to get a grip of it. Work has to pay otherwise people will continue to claim benefits instead of working and wouldn’t they… The government are talking about having to increase defence spending to 5% of GDP, that is a priority as without security of the country there is no welfare state. Obviously the socialists will be baffled by this, Trump’s America has turned the world upside down. " Who has said there is no fraud? What would you rather, some fraud but people who need get, or no fraud and those in need cannot get help? It is clear a perfect system doesn’t exist so we need to pick an imperfect outcome. | |||
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"I did vote Labour at The General Election but mainly an anti Tory vote rather than a vote for Labour , I think they have made errors, the winter fuel payment decision was politically nieve , , but I don't get the stick they are getting for U-Turns , if you make a mistake or realise something can be done better then best to change , not to bury your head in the sand and stick your fingers in your ears I agree, however this sort of conversation does show up the catch 22 that politicians face. There is always someone screeching no matter what they do. No wonder they don’t bother to say anything of any substance anymore, it’s not worth it! Thats the whole point of being a leader.... you need to lead. Starmer and his Cabinet blow with the wind. Gaslighting us as they go... What do you mean by lead? Leadership isn’t just doing what you want, it’s about looking at the world and charting the best course. Liz Truss did what she wanted, we will be paying for that for generations. It seems that you prefer willful incompetence instead of thoughtful adaption to changing circumstances. Wheeling out and misusing the trite, hackneyed old “gaslighting” phrase supports my point very well, thank you. I repeat being gaslit.. can you explain how future generations will be paying for Liz Truss's decisions? That may be the Labour 'line' but where are the facts? The world has moved on and the UK economy is crashing under Labour's policies with more to come. .... .... 'Crashing' is an emotive word. What independent sources -devoid of allegiance to the tories or farage- might give credence to what you claim? The OFS is a good place to start. Any word is emotive if you are emotional, so that’s a bit of a non sequitur argument. The simple balance sheet of the UK exchequer is another simple place to look. How much money did the government have before Truss, how much did it have after Truss? The simple information is out there, and playing the contrarian yelling “show me facts” on a forum thread doesn't change that. All this discussion does is make you think you are winning a discussion, but the basic facts of the matter don’t change. " 🏴 My mentioning of emotive language didn't follow on from anything though. A desire to engage with objective reality is hardly being contrarian. Words/context/etc🏴 | |||
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"I did vote Labour at The General Election but mainly an anti Tory vote rather than a vote for Labour , I think they have made errors, the winter fuel payment decision was politically nieve , , but I don't get the stick they are getting for U-Turns , if you make a mistake or realise something can be done better then best to change , not to bury your head in the sand and stick your fingers in your ears I agree, however this sort of conversation does show up the catch 22 that politicians face. There is always someone screeching no matter what they do. No wonder they don’t bother to say anything of any substance anymore, it’s not worth it! Thats the whole point of being a leader.... you need to lead. Starmer and his Cabinet blow with the wind. Gaslighting us as they go... What do you mean by lead? Leadership isn’t just doing what you want, it’s about looking at the world and charting the best course. Liz Truss did what she wanted, we will be paying for that for generations. It seems that you prefer willful incompetence instead of thoughtful adaption to changing circumstances. Wheeling out and misusing the trite, hackneyed old “gaslighting” phrase supports my point very well, thank you. I repeat being gaslit.. can you explain how future generations will be paying for Liz Truss's decisions? That may be the Labour 'line' but where are the facts? The world has moved on and the UK economy is crashing under Labour's policies with more to come. .... .... 'Crashing' is an emotive word. What independent sources -devoid of allegiance to the tories or farage- might give credence to what you claim? The OFS is a good place to start. Any word is emotive if you are emotional, so that’s a bit of a non sequitur argument. The simple balance sheet of the UK exchequer is another simple place to look. How much money did the government have before Truss, how much did it have after Truss? The simple information is out there, and playing the contrarian yelling “show me facts” on a forum thread doesn't change that. All this discussion does is make you think you are winning a discussion, but the basic facts of the matter don’t change. 🏴 My mentioning of emotive language didn't follow on from anything though. A desire to engage with objective reality is hardly being contrarian. Words/context/etc🏴" You are right, that isn’t contrarian, it’s also not what is happening here. Obfuscation and weasel words on the other hand… | |||
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"I see you ignored the first point. Obfuscation. Ahem. *corner" *exhales deeply* Oh dear | |||
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"Get some fresh air on your lunchbreak? It's ironic that you have denigrated others for engaging in worthless discourse. The horror of the tautology. " You are absolutely on one today aren’t you? Loving life to the max. Not sure what tautology has to do with it though. | |||
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"Innocence is bliss re the tautology. Putin presses the button and here you are. Lol. " I’m sorry that you have finally flipped, but I guess it was inevitable. | |||
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"Inane." You forgot the S | |||
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"Inane. You forgot the S" ... ... 🏴 The safety of the screen. Do you insult people to their coupons? Course you don't *number 🏴 | |||
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"Labour has abandoned socialism in favour of fascism Do you know what either of these terms means? Because your post strongly suggests you don’t. Oh I do Obviously not a full penny Look up AKTION T4 A 1930s policy in Nazi Germany To eradicate the weak, chronic sick, disabled & mentally ill citizens in Germany The fascist Labour Party is beginning a cull of non productive people in the UK - their despicable welfare reforms against the nations vulnerable is just the start The true socialist left wing are against this whilst the majority of fascist arselickers of Fuhrer Starmer will act like sheep to follow him Just like the Nazis who arselicked Hitlers every vile move" | |||
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"Inane. You forgot the S ... ... 🏴 The safety of the screen. Do you insult people to their coupons? Course you don't *number 🏴" Have a break from the performative outrage. Your blood pressure must be like a yo-yo. Safety? Why what would be unsafe about doing it in person? Next time I am up in teuchterland I will gladly buy you a pint in Ma Cameron’s and call you names. I would be very disappointed if you didn’t do the same to me. | |||
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"Which is he guys???? Week man backing down to his MPs Or the evil man about to cull the disabled??? Can you ask your red tops to be consistent their confusing the little people. Meanwhile in the real world parliament is acting as it should holding the government to account. It's called parliamentary democracy. " He's a weak leader who has been humiliated by his own. He's lost any credibility. Keep defending him by all means. With that Parliamentary majority he should be riding high... total embarrassment... | |||
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"Which is he guys???? Week man backing down to his MPs Or the evil man about to cull the disabled??? Can you ask your red tops to be consistent their confusing the little people. Meanwhile in the real world parliament is acting as it should holding the government to account. It's called parliamentary democracy. " This comes dangerously close to a thoughtfully sensible view of politics. This sort of circumspection has no place here! lol We want sound bites and reactionary outrage. | |||
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"Which is he guys???? Week man backing down to his MPs Or the evil man about to cull the disabled??? Can you ask your red tops to be consistent their confusing the little people. Meanwhile in the real world parliament is acting as it should holding the government to account. It's called parliamentary democracy. He's a weak leader who has been humiliated by his own. He's lost any credibility. Keep defending him by all means. With that Parliamentary majority he should be riding high... total embarrassment..." What would your alternative be? Push through bad ideas without listening to anyone? It is true. We get the politicians we deserve. | |||
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"But...but... Johnson Truss Sunak. The weak as water trio." Lol... remember Labour said they were better than the above. You can't start arguing they are at least as bad | |||
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"Which is he guys???? Week man backing down to his MPs Or the evil man about to cull the disabled??? Can you ask your red tops to be consistent their confusing the little people. Meanwhile in the real world parliament is acting as it should holding the government to account. It's called parliamentary democracy. He's a weak leader who has been humiliated by his own. He's lost any credibility. Keep defending him by all means. With that Parliamentary majority he should be riding high... total embarrassment... What would your alternative be? Push through bad ideas without listening to anyone? It is true. We get the politicians we deserve." As I said, he backed himself into a corner... the proposed legislation was badly drafted in the first place... total cock-up all round! | |||
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"But...but... Johnson Truss Sunak. The weak as water trio. Lol... remember Labour said they were better than the above. You can't start arguing they are at least as bad " ... ... 🏴 Deflection 🏴 | |||
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"Which is he guys???? Week man backing down to his MPs Or the evil man about to cull the disabled??? Can you ask your red tops to be consistent their confusing the little people. Meanwhile in the real world parliament is acting as it should holding the government to account. It's called parliamentary democracy. He's a weak leader who has been humiliated by his own. He's lost any credibility. Keep defending him by all means. With that Parliamentary majority he should be riding high... total embarrassment... What would your alternative be? Push through bad ideas without listening to anyone? It is true. We get the politicians we deserve. As I said, he backed himself into a corner... the proposed legislation was badly drafted in the first place... total cock-up all round!" You are using hyperbole for no real apparent reason, it feels quite like you would talk in these terms for any reason and topic which undermines the people you already have decided you don’t like. Therefore your statements are likely to just be noise and not useful appraisals of what is happening. | |||
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"Which is he guys???? Week man backing down to his MPs Or the evil man about to cull the disabled??? Can you ask your red tops to be consistent their confusing the little people. Meanwhile in the real world parliament is acting as it should holding the government to account. It's called parliamentary democracy. He's a weak leader who has been humiliated by his own. He's lost any credibility. Keep defending him by all means. With that Parliamentary majority he should be riding high... total embarrassment... What would your alternative be? Push through bad ideas without listening to anyone? It is true. We get the politicians we deserve. As I said, he backed himself into a corner... the proposed legislation was badly drafted in the first place... total cock-up all round! You are using hyperbole for no real apparent reason, it feels quite like you would talk in these terms for any reason and topic which undermines the people you already have decided you don’t like. Therefore your statements are likely to just be noise and not useful appraisals of what is happening. " My observation and probably those of others too. Why not give a proper defense of Starmer rather than attacking me for commenting on how useless he is. Do you think he is a good 'Leader'? | |||
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"Which is he guys???? Week man backing down to his MPs Or the evil man about to cull the disabled??? Can you ask your red tops to be consistent their confusing the little people. Meanwhile in the real world parliament is acting as it should holding the government to account. It's called parliamentary democracy. He's a weak leader who has been humiliated by his own. He's lost any credibility. Keep defending him by all means. With that Parliamentary majority he should be riding high... total embarrassment... What would your alternative be? Push through bad ideas without listening to anyone? It is true. We get the politicians we deserve. As I said, he backed himself into a corner... the proposed legislation was badly drafted in the first place... total cock-up all round! You are using hyperbole for no real apparent reason, it feels quite like you would talk in these terms for any reason and topic which undermines the people you already have decided you don’t like. Therefore your statements are likely to just be noise and not useful appraisals of what is happening. My observation and probably those of others too. Why not give a proper defense of Starmer rather than attacking me for commenting on how useless he is. Do you think he is a good 'Leader'?" I love that response, it contains so many logical fallacies as to be quite ingenious. You are absolutely deflecting from the points made about your completely facile argument and trying to put the onus on others to stem the calling out of the illogical nonsense you have been posting. And then pulling the politicians trick of somehow deciding that everyone else agrees with you. Wonderful performance, shame it’s absolute guff. You made the bullshit statements, we are responding to them. You don’t get to decide what we should be saying instead. If you don’t like people criticising what you write, maybe ask yourself if writing it in a public forum is ideal for you? | |||
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"Which is he guys???? Week man backing down to his MPs Or the evil man about to cull the disabled??? Can you ask your red tops to be consistent their confusing the little people. Meanwhile in the real world parliament is acting as it should holding the government to account. It's called parliamentary democracy. He's a weak leader who has been humiliated by his own. He's lost any credibility. Keep defending him by all means. With that Parliamentary majority he should be riding high... total embarrassment..." I suppose your definition of strong is......Putin? He's listening to his MPs before the vote it's called negotiation. Remember good ole Mrs May she actually did have the greatest defeat in history. My only criticism would be he's created this by backing down to the winter fuel policy. He's shown he's willing to back down now, the rebellion wouldn't be so large unless people thought they can push him into a corner. Rod, own and back | |||
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"Which is he guys???? Week man backing down to his MPs Or the evil man about to cull the disabled??? Can you ask your red tops to be consistent their confusing the little people. Meanwhile in the real world parliament is acting as it should holding the government to account. It's called parliamentary democracy. He's a weak leader who has been humiliated by his own. He's lost any credibility. Keep defending him by all means. With that Parliamentary majority he should be riding high... total embarrassment... I suppose your definition of strong is......Putin? He's listening to his MPs before the vote it's called negotiation. Remember good ole Mrs May she actually did have the greatest defeat in history. My only criticism would be he's created this by backing down to the winter fuel policy. He's shown he's willing to back down now, the rebellion wouldn't be so large unless people thought they can push him into a corner. Rod, own and back " He should have sought unity in his party before drafting the bill, keep the humiliation as private as possible. This is the issue Labour will have, the party still has a number of socialists in it versus the soft left of centre that they want to become | |||
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"Which is he guys???? Week man backing down to his MPs Or the evil man about to cull the disabled??? Can you ask your red tops to be consistent their confusing the little people. Meanwhile in the real world parliament is acting as it should holding the government to account. It's called parliamentary democracy. He's a weak leader who has been humiliated by his own. He's lost any credibility. Keep defending him by all means. With that Parliamentary majority he should be riding high... total embarrassment... I suppose your definition of strong is......Putin? He's listening to his MPs before the vote it's called negotiation. Remember good ole Mrs May she actually did have the greatest defeat in history. My only criticism would be he's created this by backing down to the winter fuel policy. He's shown he's willing to back down now, the rebellion wouldn't be so large unless people thought they can push him into a corner. Rod, own and back He should have sought unity in his party before drafting the bill, keep the humiliation as private as possible. This is the issue Labour will have, the party still has a number of socialists in it versus the soft left of centre that they want to become" It's just politics or at least in my lifetime. The conservatives had the same issues over civil liberties and Brexit. Trying to get a consensus from over 400 people would be a ridiculous amount of meetings | |||
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"Which is he guys???? Week man backing down to his MPs Or the evil man about to cull the disabled??? Can you ask your red tops to be consistent their confusing the little people. Meanwhile in the real world parliament is acting as it should holding the government to account. It's called parliamentary democracy. He's a weak leader who has been humiliated by his own. He's lost any credibility. Keep defending him by all means. With that Parliamentary majority he should be riding high... total embarrassment... What would your alternative be? Push through bad ideas without listening to anyone? It is true. We get the politicians we deserve. As I said, he backed himself into a corner... the proposed legislation was badly drafted in the first place... total cock-up all round! You are using hyperbole for no real apparent reason, it feels quite like you would talk in these terms for any reason and topic which undermines the people you already have decided you don’t like. Therefore your statements are likely to just be noise and not useful appraisals of what is happening. My observation and probably those of others too. Why not give a proper defense of Starmer rather than attacking me for commenting on how useless he is. Do you think he is a good 'Leader'? I love that response, it contains so many logical fallacies as to be quite ingenious. You are absolutely deflecting from the points made about your completely facile argument and trying to put the onus on others to stem the calling out of the illogical nonsense you have been posting. And then pulling the politicians trick of somehow deciding that everyone else agrees with you. Wonderful performance, shame it’s absolute guff. You made the bullshit statements, we are responding to them. You don’t get to decide what we should be saying instead. If you don’t like people criticising what you write, maybe ask yourself if writing it in a public forum is ideal for you? " Usual response. If you had a thing supportive to say (of Starmer) you would have said it. Don't attack me for having a different view!! BTW 120+ of his own MPs seem less than impressed too! | |||
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"Which is he guys???? Week man backing down to his MPs Or the evil man about to cull the disabled??? Can you ask your red tops to be consistent their confusing the little people. Meanwhile in the real world parliament is acting as it should holding the government to account. It's called parliamentary democracy. He's a weak leader who has been humiliated by his own. He's lost any credibility. Keep defending him by all means. With that Parliamentary majority he should be riding high... total embarrassment... I suppose your definition of strong is......Putin? He's listening to his MPs before the vote it's called negotiation. Remember good ole Mrs May she actually did have the greatest defeat in history. My only criticism would be he's created this by backing down to the winter fuel policy. He's shown he's willing to back down now, the rebellion wouldn't be so large unless people thought they can push him into a corner. Rod, own and back " No...a strong leader takes his people with him/her not supress them.. so that excludes Putin. It's clear Starmer does not have what it takes. | |||
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"Which is he guys???? Week man backing down to his MPs Or the evil man about to cull the disabled??? Can you ask your red tops to be consistent their confusing the little people. Meanwhile in the real world parliament is acting as it should holding the government to account. It's called parliamentary democracy. He's a weak leader who has been humiliated by his own. He's lost any credibility. Keep defending him by all means. With that Parliamentary majority he should be riding high... total embarrassment... I suppose your definition of strong is......Putin? He's listening to his MPs before the vote it's called negotiation. Remember good ole Mrs May she actually did have the greatest defeat in history. My only criticism would be he's created this by backing down to the winter fuel policy. He's shown he's willing to back down now, the rebellion wouldn't be so large unless people thought they can push him into a corner. Rod, own and back He should have sought unity in his party before drafting the bill, keep the humiliation as private as possible. This is the issue Labour will have, the party still has a number of socialists in it versus the soft left of centre that they want to become It's just politics or at least in my lifetime. The conservatives had the same issues over civil liberties and Brexit. Trying to get a consensus from over 400 people would be a ridiculous amount of meetings " And that is where leadership comes into play!!! Cheers | |||
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"Which is he guys???? Week man backing down to his MPs Or the evil man about to cull the disabled??? Can you ask your red tops to be consistent their confusing the little people. Meanwhile in the real world parliament is acting as it should holding the government to account. It's called parliamentary democracy. He's a weak leader who has been humiliated by his own. He's lost any credibility. Keep defending him by all means. With that Parliamentary majority he should be riding high... total embarrassment... I suppose your definition of strong is......Putin? He's listening to his MPs before the vote it's called negotiation. Remember good ole Mrs May she actually did have the greatest defeat in history. My only criticism would be he's created this by backing down to the winter fuel policy. He's shown he's willing to back down now, the rebellion wouldn't be so large unless people thought they can push him into a corner. Rod, own and back No...a strong leader takes his people with him/her not supress them.. so that excludes Putin. It's clear Starmer does not have what it takes." What's clear to me is that he's now listening to take his people with him..... | |||
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"Which is he guys???? Week man backing down to his MPs Or the evil man about to cull the disabled??? Can you ask your red tops to be consistent their confusing the little people. Meanwhile in the real world parliament is acting as it should holding the government to account. It's called parliamentary democracy. He's a weak leader who has been humiliated by his own. He's lost any credibility. Keep defending him by all means. With that Parliamentary majority he should be riding high... total embarrassment... What would your alternative be? Push through bad ideas without listening to anyone? It is true. We get the politicians we deserve. As I said, he backed himself into a corner... the proposed legislation was badly drafted in the first place... total cock-up all round! You are using hyperbole for no real apparent reason, it feels quite like you would talk in these terms for any reason and topic which undermines the people you already have decided you don’t like. Therefore your statements are likely to just be noise and not useful appraisals of what is happening. My observation and probably those of others too. Why not give a proper defense of Starmer rather than attacking me for commenting on how useless he is. Do you think he is a good 'Leader'? I love that response, it contains so many logical fallacies as to be quite ingenious. You are absolutely deflecting from the points made about your completely facile argument and trying to put the onus on others to stem the calling out of the illogical nonsense you have been posting. And then pulling the politicians trick of somehow deciding that everyone else agrees with you. Wonderful performance, shame it’s absolute guff. You made the bullshit statements, we are responding to them. You don’t get to decide what we should be saying instead. If you don’t like people criticising what you write, maybe ask yourself if writing it in a public forum is ideal for you? Usual response. If you had a thing supportive to say (of Starmer) you would have said it. Don't attack me for having a different view!! BTW 120+ of his own MPs seem less than impressed too!" I’m not attacking you for having a different view. I am criticising your view for being nonsensical and criticising your response to criticism. I have already stated that the alternative approach is far worse. Starmer is using consensus as opposed to bloody minded authority, a refreshing change and sobriety to UK politics that despite not being a Labour voter or supporter, I am all in favour of. The issue politicians have is no matter who they are or what they do, there are narrow minded formulaic detractors screeching half baked nonsense from every possible outlet. Even worse when those detractors cannot cope with people arguing with their nonsensical points. | |||
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"Which is he guys???? Week man backing down to his MPs Or the evil man about to cull the disabled??? Can you ask your red tops to be consistent their confusing the little people. Meanwhile in the real world parliament is acting as it should holding the government to account. It's called parliamentary democracy. He's a weak leader who has been humiliated by his own. He's lost any credibility. Keep defending him by all means. With that Parliamentary majority he should be riding high... total embarrassment... I suppose your definition of strong is......Putin? He's listening to his MPs before the vote it's called negotiation. Remember good ole Mrs May she actually did have the greatest defeat in history. My only criticism would be he's created this by backing down to the winter fuel policy. He's shown he's willing to back down now, the rebellion wouldn't be so large unless people thought they can push him into a corner. Rod, own and back He should have sought unity in his party before drafting the bill, keep the humiliation as private as possible. This is the issue Labour will have, the party still has a number of socialists in it versus the soft left of centre that they want to become It's just politics or at least in my lifetime. The conservatives had the same issues over civil liberties and Brexit. Trying to get a consensus from over 400 people would be a ridiculous amount of meetings And that is where leadership comes into play!!! Cheers "Hence the listening to the rebels wants,needs. He's put the governments version the rebels have kicked back, and he's saying, ok what do you want or need for it to get through. It's parliamentary democracy it's a good system | |||
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"Which is he guys???? Week man backing down to his MPs Or the evil man about to cull the disabled??? Can you ask your red tops to be consistent their confusing the little people. Meanwhile in the real world parliament is acting as it should holding the government to account. It's called parliamentary democracy. He's a weak leader who has been humiliated by his own. He's lost any credibility. Keep defending him by all means. With that Parliamentary majority he should be riding high... total embarrassment... I suppose your definition of strong is......Putin? He's listening to his MPs before the vote it's called negotiation. Remember good ole Mrs May she actually did have the greatest defeat in history. My only criticism would be he's created this by backing down to the winter fuel policy. He's shown he's willing to back down now, the rebellion wouldn't be so large unless people thought they can push him into a corner. Rod, own and back He should have sought unity in his party before drafting the bill, keep the humiliation as private as possible. This is the issue Labour will have, the party still has a number of socialists in it versus the soft left of centre that they want to become It's just politics or at least in my lifetime. The conservatives had the same issues over civil liberties and Brexit. Trying to get a consensus from over 400 people would be a ridiculous amount of meetings And that is where leadership comes into play!!! Cheers
Hence the listening to the rebels wants,needs.
He's put the governments version the rebels have kicked back, and he's saying, ok what do you want or need for it to get through.
It's parliamentary democracy it's a good system "That should be the opposition's role, not the government backbenchers. Now the backbench will sense weakness in their leadership which is never a good thing for the ruling party. | |||
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"Which is he guys???? Week man backing down to his MPs Or the evil man about to cull the disabled??? Can you ask your red tops to be consistent their confusing the little people. Meanwhile in the real world parliament is acting as it should holding the government to account. It's called parliamentary democracy. He's a weak leader who has been humiliated by his own. He's lost any credibility. Keep defending him by all means. With that Parliamentary majority he should be riding high... total embarrassment... I suppose your definition of strong is......Putin? He's listening to his MPs before the vote it's called negotiation. Remember good ole Mrs May she actually did have the greatest defeat in history. My only criticism would be he's created this by backing down to the winter fuel policy. He's shown he's willing to back down now, the rebellion wouldn't be so large unless people thought they can push him into a corner. Rod, own and back No...a strong leader takes his people with him/her not supress them.. so that excludes Putin. It's clear Starmer does not have what it takes. What's clear to me is that he's now listening to take his people with him....." Perhaps you'd agree that maybe he should have listened to them first. That way he would have avoided the humiliation of negotiating, at the eleventh hour, away much of what he was trying to achieve. He's hopeless! | |||
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"Which is he guys???? Week man backing down to his MPs Or the evil man about to cull the disabled??? Can you ask your red tops to be consistent their confusing the little people. Meanwhile in the real world parliament is acting as it should holding the government to account. It's called parliamentary democracy. He's a weak leader who has been humiliated by his own. He's lost any credibility. Keep defending him by all means. With that Parliamentary majority he should be riding high... total embarrassment... I suppose your definition of strong is......Putin? He's listening to his MPs before the vote it's called negotiation. Remember good ole Mrs May she actually did have the greatest defeat in history. My only criticism would be he's created this by backing down to the winter fuel policy. He's shown he's willing to back down now, the rebellion wouldn't be so large unless people thought they can push him into a corner. Rod, own and back He should have sought unity in his party before drafting the bill, keep the humiliation as private as possible. This is the issue Labour will have, the party still has a number of socialists in it versus the soft left of centre that they want to become It's just politics or at least in my lifetime. The conservatives had the same issues over civil liberties and Brexit. Trying to get a consensus from over 400 people would be a ridiculous amount of meetings And that is where leadership comes into play!!! Cheers
Hence the listening to the rebels wants,needs.
He's put the governments version the rebels have kicked back, and he's saying, ok what do you want or need for it to get through.
It's parliamentary democracy it's a good system
That should be the opposition's role, not the government backbenchers. Now the backbench will sense weakness in their leadership which is never a good thing for the ruling party."I don't see it as an either or tbh, however, I do agree it looks like shit show. Like I said the conservatives have had the same problems with Brexit. So as far as I've been politically aware it's an in built part of our system. That weakness came from the reversal of winter fuel in my opinion. | |||
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"Which is he guys???? Week man backing down to his MPs Or the evil man about to cull the disabled??? Can you ask your red tops to be consistent their confusing the little people. Meanwhile in the real world parliament is acting as it should holding the government to account. It's called parliamentary democracy. He's a weak leader who has been humiliated by his own. He's lost any credibility. Keep defending him by all means. With that Parliamentary majority he should be riding high... total embarrassment... I suppose your definition of strong is......Putin? He's listening to his MPs before the vote it's called negotiation. Remember good ole Mrs May she actually did have the greatest defeat in history. My only criticism would be he's created this by backing down to the winter fuel policy. He's shown he's willing to back down now, the rebellion wouldn't be so large unless people thought they can push him into a corner. Rod, own and back He should have sought unity in his party before drafting the bill, keep the humiliation as private as possible. This is the issue Labour will have, the party still has a number of socialists in it versus the soft left of centre that they want to become It's just politics or at least in my lifetime. The conservatives had the same issues over civil liberties and Brexit. Trying to get a consensus from over 400 people would be a ridiculous amount of meetings And that is where leadership comes into play!!! Cheers
Hence the listening to the rebels wants,needs.
He's put the governments version the rebels have kicked back, and he's saying, ok what do you want or need for it to get through.
It's parliamentary democracy it's a good system
That should be the opposition's role, not the government backbenchers. Now the backbench will sense weakness in their leadership which is never a good thing for the ruling party."Exactly, the backbenchers are finding how to play him. Is this the beginning of the end, or the end of the beginning. Who is there to replace him? | |||
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"Which is he guys???? Week man backing down to his MPs Or the evil man about to cull the disabled??? Can you ask your red tops to be consistent their confusing the little people. Meanwhile in the real world parliament is acting as it should holding the government to account. It's called parliamentary democracy. He's a weak leader who has been humiliated by his own. He's lost any credibility. Keep defending him by all means. With that Parliamentary majority he should be riding high... total embarrassment... I suppose your definition of strong is......Putin? He's listening to his MPs before the vote it's called negotiation. Remember good ole Mrs May she actually did have the greatest defeat in history. My only criticism would be he's created this by backing down to the winter fuel policy. He's shown he's willing to back down now, the rebellion wouldn't be so large unless people thought they can push him into a corner. Rod, own and back He should have sought unity in his party before drafting the bill, keep the humiliation as private as possible. This is the issue Labour will have, the party still has a number of socialists in it versus the soft left of centre that they want to become It's just politics or at least in my lifetime. The conservatives had the same issues over civil liberties and Brexit. Trying to get a consensus from over 400 people would be a ridiculous amount of meetings And that is where leadership comes into play!!! Cheers
Hence the listening to the rebels wants,needs.
He's put the governments version the rebels have kicked back, and he's saying, ok what do you want or need for it to get through.
It's parliamentary democracy it's a good system
That should be the opposition's role, not the government backbenchers. Now the backbench will sense weakness in their leadership which is never a good thing for the ruling party.
I don't see it as an either or tbh, however, I do agree it looks like shit show.
Like I said the conservatives have had the same problems with Brexit. So as far as I've been politically aware it's an in built part of our system.
That weakness came from the reversal of winter fuel in my opinion."Agree, it's the in-fighting that always led to the Tories losing power and will probably lead to Labour losing it this time as well | |||
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"Which is he guys???? Week man backing down to his MPs Or the evil man about to cull the disabled??? Can you ask your red tops to be consistent their confusing the little people. Meanwhile in the real world parliament is acting as it should holding the government to account. It's called parliamentary democracy. He's a weak leader who has been humiliated by his own. He's lost any credibility. Keep defending him by all means. With that Parliamentary majority he should be riding high... total embarrassment... I suppose your definition of strong is......Putin? He's listening to his MPs before the vote it's called negotiation. Remember good ole Mrs May she actually did have the greatest defeat in history. My only criticism would be he's created this by backing down to the winter fuel policy. He's shown he's willing to back down now, the rebellion wouldn't be so large unless people thought they can push him into a corner. Rod, own and back No...a strong leader takes his people with him/her not supress them.. so that excludes Putin. It's clear Starmer does not have what it takes. What's clear to me is that he's now listening to take his people with him..... Perhaps you'd agree that maybe he should have listened to them first. That way he would have avoided the humiliation of negotiating, at the eleventh hour, away much of what he was trying to achieve. He's hopeless!" No I don't see the prime ministers role as massaging the ego of MPs that's Morgan McSweeney job. He should have been telling the prime minister and the cabinet we might need to water this down a bit or whatever. However, he's too busy chasing reform voters. | |||
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"Which is he guys???? Week man backing down to his MPs Or the evil man about to cull the disabled??? Can you ask your red tops to be consistent their confusing the little people. Meanwhile in the real world parliament is acting as it should holding the government to account. It's called parliamentary democracy. He's a weak leader who has been humiliated by his own. He's lost any credibility. Keep defending him by all means. With that Parliamentary majority he should be riding high... total embarrassment... I suppose your definition of strong is......Putin? He's listening to his MPs before the vote it's called negotiation. Remember good ole Mrs May she actually did have the greatest defeat in history. My only criticism would be he's created this by backing down to the winter fuel policy. He's shown he's willing to back down now, the rebellion wouldn't be so large unless people thought they can push him into a corner. Rod, own and back He should have sought unity in his party before drafting the bill, keep the humiliation as private as possible. This is the issue Labour will have, the party still has a number of socialists in it versus the soft left of centre that they want to become It's just politics or at least in my lifetime. The conservatives had the same issues over civil liberties and Brexit. Trying to get a consensus from over 400 people would be a ridiculous amount of meetings And that is where leadership comes into play!!! Cheers
Hence the listening to the rebels wants,needs.
He's put the governments version the rebels have kicked back, and he's saying, ok what do you want or need for it to get through.
It's parliamentary democracy it's a good system
That should be the opposition's role, not the government backbenchers. Now the backbench will sense weakness in their leadership which is never a good thing for the ruling party.
Exactly, the backbenchers are finding how to play him. Is this the beginning of the end, or the end of the beginning. Who is there to replace him?"Your addicted to the post Brexit conservative years. Labour don't have the same mechanisms or thirst for rippling leaders, or at least not historically. | |||
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"Which is he guys???? Week man backing down to his MPs Or the evil man about to cull the disabled??? Can you ask your red tops to be consistent their confusing the little people. Meanwhile in the real world parliament is acting as it should holding the government to account. It's called parliamentary democracy. He's a weak leader who has been humiliated by his own. He's lost any credibility. Keep defending him by all means. With that Parliamentary majority he should be riding high... total embarrassment... I suppose your definition of strong is......Putin? He's listening to his MPs before the vote it's called negotiation. Remember good ole Mrs May she actually did have the greatest defeat in history. My only criticism would be he's created this by backing down to the winter fuel policy. He's shown he's willing to back down now, the rebellion wouldn't be so large unless people thought they can push him into a corner. Rod, own and back He should have sought unity in his party before drafting the bill, keep the humiliation as private as possible. This is the issue Labour will have, the party still has a number of socialists in it versus the soft left of centre that they want to become It's just politics or at least in my lifetime. The conservatives had the same issues over civil liberties and Brexit. Trying to get a consensus from over 400 people would be a ridiculous amount of meetings And that is where leadership comes into play!!! Cheers
Hence the listening to the rebels wants,needs.
He's put the governments version the rebels have kicked back, and he's saying, ok what do you want or need for it to get through.
It's parliamentary democracy it's a good system
That should be the opposition's role, not the government backbenchers. Now the backbench will sense weakness in their leadership which is never a good thing for the ruling party.
Exactly, the backbenchers are finding how to play him. Is this the beginning of the end, or the end of the beginning. Who is there to replace him?"The ghost of Corbyn | |||
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"Which is he guys???? Week man backing down to his MPs Or the evil man about to cull the disabled??? Can you ask your red tops to be consistent their confusing the little people. Meanwhile in the real world parliament is acting as it should holding the government to account. It's called parliamentary democracy. He's a weak leader who has been humiliated by his own. He's lost any credibility. Keep defending him by all means. With that Parliamentary majority he should be riding high... total embarrassment... I suppose your definition of strong is......Putin? He's listening to his MPs before the vote it's called negotiation. Remember good ole Mrs May she actually did have the greatest defeat in history. My only criticism would be he's created this by backing down to the winter fuel policy. He's shown he's willing to back down now, the rebellion wouldn't be so large unless people thought they can push him into a corner. Rod, own and back He should have sought unity in his party before drafting the bill, keep the humiliation as private as possible. This is the issue Labour will have, the party still has a number of socialists in it versus the soft left of centre that they want to become It's just politics or at least in my lifetime. The conservatives had the same issues over civil liberties and Brexit. Trying to get a consensus from over 400 people would be a ridiculous amount of meetings And that is where leadership comes into play!!! Cheers
Hence the listening to the rebels wants,needs.
He's put the governments version the rebels have kicked back, and he's saying, ok what do you want or need for it to get through.
It's parliamentary democracy it's a good system
That should be the opposition's role, not the government backbenchers. Now the backbench will sense weakness in their leadership which is never a good thing for the ruling party.
Exactly, the backbenchers are finding how to play him. Is this the beginning of the end, or the end of the beginning. Who is there to replace him?
Your addicted to the post Brexit conservative years.
Labour don't have the same mechanisms or thirst for rippling leaders, or at least not historically."" The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears" | |||
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"Not apologising for them, condemning them and certainly not condoning them. Still finding their feet though. Very easy in opposition to have high ideals and say what you will do. However actually governing is a different matter. Several in the current cabinet--including Starmer---had never held a government office before. Plunged in at the deep end. I keep reading how well Reform is doing in the polls. That the dreaded Farage is on course to be the next prime minister. If such a thing should ever happen I bet they will be doing more u-turns than a spinning wheel." . Well farage can't do as much damage as Starmer has done 12 months | |||
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"Which is he guys???? Week man backing down to his MPs Or the evil man about to cull the disabled??? Can you ask your red tops to be consistent their confusing the little people. Meanwhile in the real world parliament is acting as it should holding the government to account. It's called parliamentary democracy. He's a weak leader who has been humiliated by his own. He's lost any credibility. Keep defending him by all means. With that Parliamentary majority he should be riding high... total embarrassment... I suppose your definition of strong is......Putin? He's listening to his MPs before the vote it's called negotiation. Remember good ole Mrs May she actually did have the greatest defeat in history. My only criticism would be he's created this by backing down to the winter fuel policy. He's shown he's willing to back down now, the rebellion wouldn't be so large unless people thought they can push him into a corner. Rod, own and back He should have sought unity in his party before drafting the bill, keep the humiliation as private as possible. This is the issue Labour will have, the party still has a number of socialists in it versus the soft left of centre that they want to become It's just politics or at least in my lifetime. The conservatives had the same issues over civil liberties and Brexit. Trying to get a consensus from over 400 people would be a ridiculous amount of meetings And that is where leadership comes into play!!! Cheers
Hence the listening to the rebels wants,needs.
He's put the governments version the rebels have kicked back, and he's saying, ok what do you want or need for it to get through.
It's parliamentary democracy it's a good system
That should be the opposition's role, not the government backbenchers. Now the backbench will sense weakness in their leadership which is never a good thing for the ruling party.
Exactly, the backbenchers are finding how to play him. Is this the beginning of the end, or the end of the beginning. Who is there to replace him?
Your addicted to the post Brexit conservative years.
Labour don't have the same mechanisms or thirst for rippling leaders, or at least not historically.
" The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears""Wtf??? What are they telling me? It's just historically accurate, labour don't tend to swap leaders in power. Blair/Brown happened 10 years in. | |||
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"Still not up to volume of Tory u turns need another few years for that Tory press hate labour and hate the loss of election .. shame get over it …. He could been still won the vote such is the labour but chose not too .. that mode leadership them the Tory spin and back handers we had before Yep things go do different but don’t pretend no govt never u turned they all do and bj did 1000s " Saint Marcus saw to that | |||
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"Well farage can't do as much damage as Starmer has done 12 months" I think you’ll find that he’s managed to do irreparable damage to the country before he was an elected MP, so God help us all if he, the MP for Mar a Largo ever became PM. | |||
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"To be honest Labour doesn't have any credible opposition parties " That isn’t labours fault | |||
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"What damage has Starmer done in 12 months Anyone taking over with decency in mind had to struggle after the previous shit show Farage would continue the shit show whilst press told you it was a black man’s fault the country was shit We are shit because we lack decency as a country and you can’t blame Starmer for that but some will Just like intelligent folk had go get over Brexit …. The racists have to get over labour winning .. simples " | |||
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"Not apologising for them, condemning them and certainly not condoning them. Still finding their feet though. Very easy in opposition to have high ideals and say what you will do. However actually governing is a different matter. Several in the current cabinet--including Starmer---had never held a government office before. Plunged in at the deep end. I keep reading how well Reform is doing in the polls. That the dreaded Farage is on course to be the next prime minister. If such a thing should ever happen I bet they will be doing more u-turns than a spinning wheel.. Well farage can't do as much damage as Starmer has done 12 months" The Godfather of Brexit is responsible for the shrinking economy. But he's our saviour  | |||
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"To be honest Labour doesn't have any credible opposition parties " Oh??... But of course with Labour having only 33.7% share of the vote in the 2024 GE, that would indicate a 66.3% collective party opposition! Clearly, this government is not a fair representation of the political wishes of the electorate. PR is the way ahead, our antiquated electoral system of First past the post dating from the mid Victorian age is clearly grossly inadequate and fails to accurately represent the wishes of the voting population of the UK of 2025! | |||
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"Not apologising for them, condemning them and certainly not condoning them. Still finding their feet though. Very easy in opposition to have high ideals and say what you will do. However actually governing is a different matter. Several in the current cabinet--including Starmer---had never held a government office before. Plunged in at the deep end. I keep reading how well Reform is doing in the polls. That the dreaded Farage is on course to be the next prime minister. If such a thing should ever happen I bet they will be doing more u-turns than a spinning wheel.. Well farage can't do as much damage as Starmer has done 12 months The Godfather of Brexit is responsible for the shrinking economy. But he's our saviour "Nigel Farage was a key Brexit figure, but blaming him for the economy's struggles is laughably over simplistic. Brexit has certainly brought challenges, but also newer opportunities for the UK to set its own path and make new trade deals. The economy's performance depends on many factors, including global trends, government policies and external shocks. It erroneous to attribute the economy's shrinkage solely to Farage or Brexit. We need a more balanced perspective of the issues here. | |||
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"Done more U turns than a black Taxi lol" I love em... | |||
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"Not apologising for them, condemning them and certainly not condoning them. Still finding their feet though. Very easy in opposition to have high ideals and say what you will do. However actually governing is a different matter. Several in the current cabinet--including Starmer---had never held a government office before. Plunged in at the deep end. I keep reading how well Reform is doing in the polls. That the dreaded Farage is on course to be the next prime minister. If such a thing should ever happen I bet they will be doing more u-turns than a spinning wheel.. Well farage can't do as much damage as Starmer has done 12 months The Godfather of Brexit is responsible for the shrinking economy. But he's our saviour
Nigel Farage was a key Brexit figure, but blaming him for the economy's struggles is laughably over simplistic.
Brexit has certainly brought challenges, but also newer opportunities for the UK to set its own path and make new trade deals.
The economy's performance depends on many factors, including global trends, government policies and external shocks.
It erroneous to attribute the economy's shrinkage solely to Farage or Brexit. We need a more balanced perspective of the issues here.
"The economy is 140 billion lower than it would have been It's a significant handbrake on the British economy. Trying to pretend it has brought us new opportunities is laughable. How those global trade deals going? | |||
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"Not apologising for them, condemning them and certainly not condoning them. Still finding their feet though. Very easy in opposition to have high ideals and say what you will do. However actually governing is a different matter. Several in the current cabinet--including Starmer---had never held a government office before. Plunged in at the deep end. I keep reading how well Reform is doing in the polls. That the dreaded Farage is on course to be the next prime minister. If such a thing should ever happen I bet they will be doing more u-turns than a spinning wheel.. Well farage can't do as much damage as Starmer has done 12 months" What damage? | |||
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"Not apologising for them, condemning them and certainly not condoning them. Still finding their feet though. Very easy in opposition to have high ideals and say what you will do. However actually governing is a different matter. Several in the current cabinet--including Starmer---had never held a government office before. Plunged in at the deep end. I keep reading how well Reform is doing in the polls. That the dreaded Farage is on course to be the next prime minister. If such a thing should ever happen I bet they will be doing more u-turns than a spinning wheel.. Well farage ca n't do as much damage as Starmer has done 12 months What damage?" " The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears" | |||
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"Not apologising for them, condemning them and certainly not condoning them. Still finding their feet though. Very easy in opposition to have high ideals and say what you will do. However actually governing is a different matter. Several in the current cabinet--including Starmer---had never held a government office before. Plunged in at the deep end. I keep reading how well Reform is doing in the polls. That the dreaded Farage is on course to be the next prime minister. If such a thing should ever happen I bet they will be doing more u-turns than a spinning wheel.. Well farage can't do as much damage as Starmer has done 12 months The Godfather of Brexit is responsible for the shrinking economy. But he's our saviour
Nigel Farage was a key Brexit figure, but blaming him for the economy's struggles is laughably over simplistic.
Brexit has certainly brought challenges, but also newer opportunities for the UK to set its own path and make new trade deals.
The economy's performance depends on many factors, including global trends, government policies and external shocks.
It erroneous to attribute the economy's shrinkage solely to Farage or Brexit. We need a more balanced perspective of the issues here.
The economy is 140 billion lower than it would have been
It's a significant handbrake on the British economy.
Trying to pretend it has brought us new opportunities is laughable.
How those global trade deals going?"Let's examine the facts:- Whilst it's true that some forecasts predicted economic losses, the actual impact of Brexit on the UK economy is more complex than that. Regarding the claim that the economy is £140 billion lower due to Brexit, there's no official evidence to support this figure. The Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) has analysed Brexit's impact, but their forecasts don't mention a specific £140 billion loss. In fact, the OBR notes that while Brexit has reduced long-run productivity and trade, the UK economy has shown resilience. Recent business insights also indicate that many trading businesses have reported increased turnover. According to the ONS, the UK's GDP growth has been relatively stable since Brexit, and the economy has adapted to the new circumstances. Regarding global trade deals, the UK has made significant progress, signing agreements with countries like Australia, New Zealand, and Japan, and negotiating deals with the US and others. Moreover, Brexit has allowed the UK to reclaim its sovereignty and independence, enabling us to set our own laws, regulations, and immigration policies. It's not about pretending that Brexit has brought new opportunities; it's about recognising the reality of the UK's newfound autonomy and the potential for growth and innovation that comes with it. Rather than focusing solely on short-term economic forecasts, let's consider the long-term benefits of Brexit and the opportunities it presents for the UK to forge our own path independently of the EU autocracy. | |||
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"Not apologising for them, condemning them and certainly not condoning them. Still finding their feet though. Very easy in opposition to have high ideals and say what you will do. However actually governing is a different matter. Several in the current cabinet--including Starmer---had never held a government office before. Plunged in at the deep end. I keep reading how well Reform is doing in the polls. That the dreaded Farage is on course to be the next prime minister. If such a thing should ever happen I bet they will be doing more u-turns than a spinning wheel.. Well farage can't do as much damage as Starmer has done 12 months The Godfather of Brexit is responsible for the shrinking economy. But he's our saviour
Nigel Farage was a key Brexit figure, but blaming him for the economy's struggles is laughably over simplistic.
Brexit has certainly brought challenges, but also newer opportunities for the UK to set its own path and make new trade deals.
The economy's performance depends on many factors, including global trends, government policies and external shocks.
It erroneous to attribute the economy's shrinkage solely to Farage or Brexit. We need a more balanced perspective of the issues here.
The economy is 140 billion lower than it would have been
It's a significant handbrake on the British economy.
Trying to pretend it has brought us new opportunities is laughable.
How those global trade deals going?"Do you mean apart from the trade deals with India and USA which the Remainer-in-Chief Starmer is taking credit for. They would not have been possible without Brexit! | |||
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"Not apologising for them, condemning them and certainly not condoning them. Still finding their feet though. Very easy in opposition to have high ideals and say what you will do. However actually governing is a different matter. Several in the current cabinet--including Starmer---had never held a government office before. Plunged in at the deep end. I keep reading how well Reform is doing in the polls. That the dreaded Farage is on course to be the next prime minister. If such a thing should ever happen I bet they will be doing more u-turns than a spinning wheel.. Well farage can't do as much damage as Starmer has done 12 months The Godfather of Brexit is responsible for the shrinking economy. But he's our saviour
Nigel Farage was a key Brexit figure, but blaming him for the economy's struggles is laughably over simplistic.
Brexit has certainly brought challenges, but also newer opportunities for the UK to set its own path and make new trade deals.
The economy's performance depends on many factors, including global trends, government policies and external shocks.
It erroneous to attribute the economy's shrinkage solely to Farage or Brexit. We need a more balanced perspective of the issues here.
The economy is 140 billion lower than it would have been
It's a significant handbrake on the British economy.
Trying to pretend it has brought us new opportunities is laughable.
How those global trade deals going?
Do you mean apart from the trade deals with India and USA which the Remainer-in-Chief Starmer is taking credit for. They would not have been possible without Brexit!"
Hear! Hear! Fizzeek, the Pro-EU lobby conveniently opt to ignore the success of UK trade deals resulting from our exit from the Brussels autocracy!
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"Not apologising for them, condemning them and certainly not condoning them. Still finding their feet though. Very easy in opposition to have high ideals and say what you will do. However actually governing is a different matter. Several in the current cabinet--including Starmer---had never held a government office before. Plunged in at the deep end. I keep reading how well Reform is doing in the polls. That the dreaded Farage is on course to be the next prime minister. If such a thing should ever happen I bet they will be doing more u-turns than a spinning wheel.. Well farage can't do as much damage as Starmer has done 12 months The Godfather of Brexit is responsible for the shrinking economy. But he's our saviour
Nigel Farage was a key Brexit figure, but blaming him for the economy's struggles is laughably over simplistic.
Brexit has certainly brought challenges, but also newer opportunities for the UK to set its own path and make new trade deals.
The economy's performance depends on many factors, including global trends, government policies and external shocks.
It erroneous to attribute the economy's shrinkage solely to Farage or Brexit. We need a more balanced perspective of the issues here.
The economy is 140 billion lower than it would have been
It's a significant handbrake on the British economy.
Trying to pretend it has brought us new opportunities is laughable.
How those global trade deals going?
Do you mean apart from the trade deals with India and USA which the Remainer-in-Chief Starmer is taking credit for. They would not have been possible without Brexit!
Hear! Hear! Fizzeek, the Pro-EU lobby conveniently opt to ignore the success of UK trade deals resulting from our exit from the Brussels autocracy!
"There's no trade deal with the USA it's a tariff agreement. The India, Australia and new Zealand trade deals don't amount to a hill of beans in comparison to a free market on our door step | |||
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"Not apologising for them, condemning them and certainly not condoning them. Still finding their feet though. Very easy in opposition to have high ideals and say what you will do. However actually governing is a different matter. Several in the current cabinet--including Starmer---had never held a government office before. Plunged in at the deep end. I keep reading how well Reform is doing in the polls. That the dreaded Farage is on course to be the next prime minister. If such a thing should ever happen I bet they will be doing more u-turns than a spinning wheel.. Well farage can't do as much damage as Starmer has done 12 months The Godfather of Brexit is responsible for the shrinking economy. But he's our saviour
Nigel Farage was a key Brexit figure, but blaming him for the economy's struggles is laughably over simplistic.
Brexit has certainly brought challenges, but also newer opportunities for the UK to set its own path and make new trade deals.
The economy's performance depends on many factors, including global trends, government policies and external shocks.
It erroneous to attribute the economy's shrinkage solely to Farage or Brexit. We need a more balanced perspective of the issues here.
The economy is 140 billion lower than it would have been
It's a significant handbrake on the British economy.
Trying to pretend it has brought us new opportunities is laughable.
How those global trade deals going?
Let's examine the facts:-
Whilst it's true that some forecasts predicted economic losses, the actual impact of Brexit on the UK economy is more complex than that. Regarding the claim that the economy is £140 billion lower due to Brexit, there's no official evidence to support this figure.
The Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) has analysed Brexit's impact, but their forecasts don't mention a specific £140 billion loss. In fact, the OBR notes that while Brexit has reduced long-run productivity and trade, the UK economy has shown resilience. Recent business insights also indicate that many trading businesses have reported increased turnover.
According to the ONS, the UK's GDP growth has been relatively stable since Brexit, and the economy has adapted to the new circumstances.
Regarding global trade deals, the UK has made significant progress, signing agreements with countries like Australia, New Zealand, and Japan, and negotiating deals with the US and others.
Moreover, Brexit has allowed the UK to reclaim its sovereignty and independence, enabling us to set our own laws, regulations, and immigration policies. It's not about pretending that Brexit has brought new opportunities; it's about recognising the reality of the UK's newfound autonomy and the potential for growth and innovation that comes with it.
Rather than focusing solely on short-term economic forecasts, let's consider the long-term benefits of Brexit and the opportunities it presents for the UK to forge our own path independently of the EU autocracy."The obr find it 100 billion however the actual GDP of Britain is down 140 billion. Just checked with AI | |||
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"Not apologising for them, condemning them and certainly not condoning them. Still finding their feet though. Very easy in opposition to have high ideals and say what you will do. However actually governing is a different matter. Several in the current cabinet--including Starmer---had never held a government office before. Plunged in at the deep end. I keep reading how well Reform is doing in the polls. That the dreaded Farage is on course to be the next prime minister. If such a thing should ever happen I bet they will be doing more u-turns than a spinning wheel.. Well farage can't do as much damage as Starmer has done 12 months The Godfather of Brexit is responsible for the shrinking economy. But he's our saviour
Nigel Farage was a key Brexit figure, but blaming him for the economy's struggles is laughably over simplistic.
Brexit has certainly brought challenges, but also newer opportunities for the UK to set its own path and make new trade deals.
The economy's performance depends on many factors, including global trends, government policies and external shocks.
It erroneous to attribute the economy's shrinkage solely to Farage or Brexit. We need a more balanced perspective of the issues here.
The economy is 140 billion lower than it would have been
It's a significant handbrake on the British economy.
Trying to pretend it has brought us new opportunities is laughable.
How those global trade deals going?
Let's examine the facts:-
Whilst it's true that some forecasts predicted economic losses, the actual impact of Brexit on the UK economy is more complex than that. Regarding the claim that the economy is £140 billion lower due to Brexit, there's no official evidence to support this figure.
The Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) has analysed Brexit's impact, but their forecasts don't mention a specific £140 billion loss. In fact, the OBR notes that while Brexit has reduced long-run productivity and trade, the UK economy has shown resilience. Recent business insights also indicate that many trading businesses have reported increased turnover.
According to the ONS, the UK's GDP growth has been relatively stable since Brexit, and the economy has adapted to the new circumstances.
Regarding global trade deals, the UK has made significant progress, signing agreements with countries like Australia, New Zealand, and Japan, and negotiating deals with the US and others.
Moreover, Brexit has allowed the UK to reclaim its sovereignty and independence, enabling us to set our own laws, regulations, and immigration policies. It's not about pretending that Brexit has brought new opportunities; it's about recognising the reality of the UK's newfound autonomy and the potential for growth and innovation that comes with it.
Rather than focusing solely on short-term economic forecasts, let's consider the long-term benefits of Brexit and the opportunities it presents for the UK to forge our own path independently of the EU autocracy.
The obr find it 100 billion however the actual GDP of Britain is down 140 billion.
Just checked with AI"Artificial Intelligence as a reference point? As we previously discussed, there's no concrete evidence to support this figure. The Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) has analysed Brexit's impact, but their forecasts don't mention a specific £140 billion loss. In fact, the OBR notes that while Brexit has reduced long-run productivity and trade, the UK economy has shown resilience. Recent business insights also indicate that many trading businesses have reported increased turnover. According to the ONS, the UK's GDP growth has been relatively stable since Brexit, and the economy has adapted to the new circumstances. It's also worth noting that the UK has made significant progress in signing new trade agreements, investing in key industries, and fostering innovation. Brexit has allowed the UK to reclaim its sovereignty and independence, enabling us to set our own laws, regulations, and immigration policies. Rather than focusing solely on unsubstantiated claims about economic losses, let's consider the long-term benefits of Brexit and the opportunities it presents for the UK to forge our own path independently of the EU autocracy. By the way, Artificial Intelligence can be a useful tool, but it's not yet a completely reliable source of information, especially when it comes to complex economic data. Let's rely on credible sources, such as the OBR and ONS, to inform our discussion | |||
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"Not apologising for them, condemning them and certainly not condoning them. Still finding their feet though. Very easy in opposition to have high ideals and say what you will do. However actually governing is a different matter. Several in the current cabinet--including Starmer---had never held a government office before. Plunged in at the deep end. I keep reading how well Reform is doing in the polls. That the dreaded Farage is on course to be the next prime minister. If such a thing should ever happen I bet they will be doing more u-turns than a spinning wheel.. Well farage can't do as much damage as Starmer has done 12 months The Godfather of Brexit is responsible for the shrinking economy. But he's our saviour
Nigel Farage was a key Brexit figure, but blaming him for the economy's struggles is laughably over simplistic.
Brexit has certainly brought challenges, but also newer opportunities for the UK to set its own path and make new trade deals.
The economy's performance depends on many factors, including global trends, government policies and external shocks.
It erroneous to attribute the economy's shrinkage solely to Farage or Brexit. We need a more balanced perspective of the issues here.
The economy is 140 billion lower than it would have been
It's a significant handbrake on the British economy.
Trying to pretend it has brought us new opportunities is laughable.
How those global trade deals going?
Let's examine the facts:-
Whilst it's true that some forecasts predicted economic losses, the actual impact of Brexit on the UK economy is more complex than that. Regarding the claim that the economy is £140 billion lower due to Brexit, there's no official evidence to support this figure.
The Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) has analysed Brexit's impact, but their forecasts don't mention a specific £140 billion loss. In fact, the OBR notes that while Brexit has reduced long-run productivity and trade, the UK economy has shown resilience. Recent business insights also indicate that many trading businesses have reported increased turnover.
According to the ONS, the UK's GDP growth has been relatively stable since Brexit, and the economy has adapted to the new circumstances.
Regarding global trade deals, the UK has made significant progress, signing agreements with countries like Australia, New Zealand, and Japan, and negotiating deals with the US and others.
Moreover, Brexit has allowed the UK to reclaim its sovereignty and independence, enabling us to set our own laws, regulations, and immigration policies. It's not about pretending that Brexit has brought new opportunities; it's about recognising the reality of the UK's newfound autonomy and the potential for growth and innovation that comes with it.
Rather than focusing solely on short-term economic forecasts, let's consider the long-term benefits of Brexit and the opportunities it presents for the UK to forge our own path independently of the EU autocracy.
The obr find it 100 billion however the actual GDP of Britain is down 140 billion.
Just checked with AI
Artificial Intelligence as a reference point?
As we previously discussed, there's no concrete evidence to support this figure. The Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) has analysed Brexit's impact, but their forecasts don't mention a specific £140 billion loss. In fact, the OBR notes that while Brexit has reduced long-run productivity and trade, the UK economy has shown resilience.
Recent business insights also indicate that many trading businesses have reported increased turnover. According to the ONS, the UK's GDP growth has been relatively stable since Brexit, and the economy has adapted to the new circumstances.
It's also worth noting that the UK has made significant progress in signing new trade agreements, investing in key industries, and fostering innovation. Brexit has allowed the UK to reclaim its sovereignty and independence, enabling us to set our own laws, regulations, and immigration policies.
Rather than focusing solely on unsubstantiated claims about economic losses, let's consider the long-term benefits of Brexit and the opportunities it presents for the UK to forge our own path independently of the EU autocracy.
By the way, Artificial Intelligence can be a useful tool, but it's not yet a completely reliable source of information, especially when it comes to complex economic data. Let's rely on credible sources, such as the OBR and ONS, to inform our discussion
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"But...but... Johnson Truss Sunak. The weak as water trio. Lol... remember Labour said they were better than the above. You can't start arguing they are at least as bad " Labour said they would restore honesty and trust. So far the opposite has occurred from Starmer Rayner and Reeves who in one year have shown they have no idea how to govern or create economic growth. All that they know what to is spend and tax. If they were going to bring honesty and trust back the best thing they could do is RESIGN. | |||
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