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"Do you think that if we didn't have the NHS free healthcare system, people of Britian would look after thier health better? Could the NHS actually be making us less healthy as a nation?" What makes you think that? | |||
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"It’s not free " Semantics. It is free if you've never paid taxes. | |||
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"It’s not free " Free at the point of delivery | |||
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"Do you think that if we didn't have the NHS free healthcare system, people of Britian would look after thier health better? Could the NHS actually be making us less healthy as a nation? What makes you think that? " I dont necessarily, but im wondering if the notion of a whole population able to access advanced healthcare for essentially nothing (paid by tax obvs), leads to unhealthier lifestyles. If we had to pay for it in full, would we look after ourselves better? | |||
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"Yeah, you just have to look at USA as a shining example " I think half the USA cant afford healthcare so dont access it at all. Very unhealthy and seem not to care. They just let them die if they cant afford it. | |||
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"Yeah, you just have to look at USA as a shining example I think half the USA cant afford healthcare so dont access it at all. Very unhealthy and seem not to care. They just let them die if they cant afford it." I presume you are referring to those obscenely obese white Americans taking their 4 wheel trucks to the drive-thru at the end of the road to eat a month's supply of food in 1 sitting? | |||
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"I do think we have a certain responsibility for our own health. The NHS spend billions on perfectly preventable diseases each year due to lifestyle. Can't help thinking it's overused rather than underfunded but it's a complex issue and not an easy fix. " I agree. The funding is astromical. | |||
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"Yeah, you just have to look at USA as a shining example I think half the USA cant afford healthcare so dont access it at all. Very unhealthy and seem not to care. They just let them die if they cant afford it." There is medicare and medicaid for those who don't get healthcare insurance (which is usually provided by employers), healthcare is still accessible | |||
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"It’s not free Free at the point of delivery" it’s still not free | |||
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"In the immortal words of my dear old dad. Don’t be a cunt. " Are you suggesting im a cunt for asking a question? | |||
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"Yeah, you just have to look at USA as a shining example " Came to say same... | |||
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"In the immortal words of my dear old dad. Don’t be a cunt. Are you suggesting im a cunt for asking a question?" Old dad must have been a barrel of laughs. | |||
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"If our goverment clamped down on what was put in foods and even banned pre made meals. People would start to cook again. If you look at pictures from 60 plus years ago people were alot slimmer. " so it’s the governments fault for allowing choice and convenience? But if they ban that they’d be borderline communist? | |||
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"In the immortal words of my dear old dad. Don’t be a cunt. Are you suggesting im a cunt for asking a question?" No, that was for this bloke. “ mean look at the areas of Britain with low life expectancy (like 65 in parts of Glasgow) and picture how much better they would be doing if they had to pay their own healthcare costs” | |||
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"Do you think that if we didn't have the NHS free healthcare system, people of Britian would look after thier health better? Could the NHS actually be making us less healthy as a nation?" I don't know what the metrics are to measure health as a nation. If life expectancy is one, Spain, with a similar public health service, shows one of the highest life expectancy averages in the world, certainly higher than the UK's. It may be comparing apples and pears but I thought it might add a curious detail to the conversation. 🚑🥼🩺 | |||
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"Yeah, you just have to look at USA as a shining example I think half the USA cant afford healthcare so dont access it at all. Very unhealthy and seem not to care. They just let them die if they cant afford it. I presume you are referring to those obscenely obese white Americans taking their 4 wheel trucks to the drive-thru at the end of the road to eat a month's supply of food in 1 sitting?" what only the white Americans are obese what rubbish. | |||
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"Yeah, you just have to look at USA as a shining example I think half the USA cant afford healthcare so dont access it at all. Very unhealthy and seem not to care. They just let them die if they cant afford it. I presume you are referring to those obscenely obese white Americans taking their 4 wheel trucks to the drive-thru at the end of the road to eat a month's supply of food in 1 sitting?what only the white Americans are obese what rubbish. " Not everyone in Barrow is as thick as pigshit either | |||
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"Yeah, you just have to look at USA as a shining example I think half the USA cant afford healthcare so dont access it at all. Very unhealthy and seem not to care. They just let them die if they cant afford it. I presume you are referring to those obscenely obese white Americans taking their 4 wheel trucks to the drive-thru at the end of the road to eat a month's supply of food in 1 sitting?what only the white Americans are obese what rubbish. Not everyone in Barrow is as thick as pigshit either" But maybe they are in Harrow | |||
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"Yeah, you just have to look at USA as a shining example I think half the USA cant afford healthcare so dont access it at all. Very unhealthy and seem not to care. They just let them die if they cant afford it." You just answered your own question. Move on topic is done. | |||
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"Ahh remember the good old days..60 years ago. when hardly anyone had a full set of teeth over the age of 20" Thats about flouride toothpaste, oral hygiene, advancements in dentistry and people buying thier teeth, rather than care from the NHS surely? | |||
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"I don’t think there’s any evidence to suggest that having to pay at point of service health care would improve health outcomes. The USA arguably the most expensive health care system and the health outcomes are terrible there. Not sure if correlation means causation. " I doubt having to pay improves health outcomes as theres always haves and haves nots, but my question is really does not having to pay, having a safety blanket, knowing we can just got to the NHS when our body goes wrong make us less inclined to put much thought into looking after ourselves? | |||
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"I don’t think there’s any evidence to suggest that having to pay at point of service health care would improve health outcomes. The USA arguably the most expensive health care system and the health outcomes are terrible there. Not sure if correlation means causation. I doubt having to pay improves health outcomes as theres always haves and haves nots, but my question is really does not having to pay, having a safety blanket, knowing we can just got to the NHS when our body goes wrong make us less inclined to put much thought into looking after ourselves?" It depends on how you use the safety blanket, there is a lot of preventative care in the UK if you seek it, much more than say in the USA where care is about treatment (possibly motivated by deriving income from the treatment rather than preventing disease) | |||
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"Don’t think so as seen from the US, I think it’s more people now prefer convenience so they’d rather have ready meals, ultra processed foods, takeaways, etc. " Perhaps having an NHS has contributed to that culture of have it now, worry later. | |||
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"Do you think that if we didn't have the NHS free healthcare system, people of Britian would look after thier health better? Could the NHS actually be making us less healthy as a nation?" A lot of things we use the NHS for are not necessarily our fault. Obviously smoking, drinking to excess, using illegal substances, gorging yourself on junk food etc can cause health problems and be a burden on the NHS. But some things just happen. The healthiest of people can suffer heart problems, strokes, cancer etc. Two of my last three operation were for hernias. I hadn't planned them and they were possibly caused by heavy lifting. Would I have avoided any heavy lifting had there been no NHS? | |||
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"Don’t think so as seen from the US, I think it’s more people now prefer convenience so they’d rather have ready meals, ultra processed foods, takeaways, etc. Perhaps having an NHS has contributed to that culture of have it now, worry later." Maybe so, A lot of people also don’t understand basic nutrition, and the number of takeaways, restaurants, cafes, etc. on every corner isn’t helping. | |||
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"Don’t think so as seen from the US, I think it’s more people now prefer convenience so they’d rather have ready meals, ultra processed foods, takeaways, etc. Perhaps having an NHS has contributed to that culture of have it now, worry later. Maybe so, A lot of people also don’t understand basic nutrition, and the number of takeaways, restaurants, cafes, etc. on every corner isn’t helping. " Of course they understand. We have vast amounts of guidance at our fingertips. We just don't like the implications of eating healthy. | |||
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"Do you think that if we didn't have the NHS free healthcare system, people of Britian would look after thier health better? Could the NHS actually be making us less healthy as a nation? A lot of things we use the NHS for are not necessarily our fault. Obviously smoking, drinking to excess, using illegal substances, gorging yourself on junk food etc can cause health problems and be a burden on the NHS. But some things just happen. The healthiest of people can suffer heart problems, strokes, cancer etc. Two of my last three operation were for hernias. I hadn't planned them and they were possibly caused by heavy lifting. Would I have avoided any heavy lifting had there been no NHS?" So, to save money, could we say self-inflicted ailments are not necessarily free on the NHS but congenital illness is? They could be means-tested.nIts a moral debate i guess. | |||
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"Don’t think so as seen from the US, I think it’s more people now prefer convenience so they’d rather have ready meals, ultra processed foods, takeaways, etc. Perhaps having an NHS has contributed to that culture of have it now, worry later. Maybe so, A lot of people also don’t understand basic nutrition, and the number of takeaways, restaurants, cafes, etc. on every corner isn’t helping. Of course they understand. We have vast amounts of guidance at our fingertips. We just don't like the implications of eating healthy. " I agree. 99% of the time people know exactly what they are doing. | |||
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"Yeah, you just have to look at USA as a shining example " In the USA the food and drug administration are one group that's why there food is full of unhealthy ingredients because they don't want you to be healthy. | |||
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"We're certainly very lucky to have the cover-all NHS free at source in the UK. I lived in Egypt for a while. They have a very basic free healthcare system, but anything complex you have to contribute to. For example a hip replacement - you have a consult with the surgeon, who then gives you a list of things you need to buy so he can do the op. You then go to a shop and buy it all, from screws, the hip joints, canulas, tubes, surgeons robes, pain killers, saline drips. Was quite an eye opener to visit one of these shops and see how cheap the stuff is there. The Egy govt pays for the surgeon but you pay for everything else and you're in and out in a day regardless of what's done. A whip round for mums new hip is not unusual. It works perfectly well and they know no different. Treatment for stuff like cancer is free but its surpris8ng the high % of people who dont want it. Younger Egyptians tend to have insurance as the private model runs alongside. Tbey have to pay for dentistry, their teeth are better than us Brits! Maybe the notion of an automatically free NHS for everyone for every ailment is out of date and unaffordable. Maybe the time is here that people start taking some responsibility to keep themselves healthy? When money is tighter and tighter, and ability to raise taxes stilted, we have to decide where it's.most important to spend the money." Interesting read, bet it was quite an eye opener. Have to admit, like the Egyptians, I m not interested in cancer treatment. I m lucky I ve got this far and I ve lived a pretty good life after a real crap start, so am happy to live out my natural, unaided life, besides im too much of a dinosaur to this tech world. That's just me. | |||
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"Seeing metal joints next to cans of fly spray, baby formula and toothpaste was quite amusing! Big black market there in saline, that stuff is expensive. I suppose when I get to a certain age id opt for non treatment too. I work in healthcare, I see 70 years olds having chemotherapy. Its rough. I think something like 80% of the NHS budget goes into treating older people for natural aging. We're medicating and treating away death in a way. Not sure thats affordable for much longer unless things change. I'm not advocating we just let old people die, but if we had a healthier population in general, perhaps we'd be able to focus money where it's needed. There's a line between personal responsibilities and getting fixed for free." I bet that was quite funny. Like walking into a martial in the States, seeing groceries and the like then the next aisle is hi power firearms and ammo. I ve always been very independent and really can t be any other way. I only just registered with a doctor who commented on the fact my file was all but empty, not had a doc for about 20 years. I ve been lucky only to have injuries which I ve sorted myself, not ailments, so I ve never needed one. I agree, we are treating away death, the planets becoming too small for the population and often, once the cancer etc is handled, the life one gains is no longer as before. I need my wilderness everyday, I need to hear, feel and be a part of nature every day, I couldn t live any other way. I placed a DNR, which still stands, on my docs many, many moons ago. Once dead, I stay dead. But my life has been very different to most. | |||
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"It is free to certain individuals who shouldn’t be here and people who haven’t paid a penny into the system. " Hundreds of thousands of Brits rinse the system, and they dont pay in anything either. Perhaps means testing is the answer- the service received is pegged alongside how much you can/have contributed towards it. | |||
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"It is free to certain individuals who shouldn’t be here and people who haven’t paid a penny into the system. Hundreds of thousands of Brits rinse the system, and they dont pay in anything either. Perhaps means testing is the answer- the service received is pegged alongside how much you can/have contributed towards it." Yup. Knew one particular guy, and others, that have never worked a day in their life or put into anything. One claims a back issue, gets all the benefits as the doctors can't find nothing wrong but aren t willing to say so in case they re wrong. He knows the social security system better than those that enforce its rules. The other just decided to have lots of kids and live off the benefits. Both have admitted its why they did it, let the government pay. A chap that occassionally works with me through a customer is more than able to work but he cleverly blows his stack and acts ADHD as read on Google signs and sure enough he s signed off from work pending diagnosis which they ve told him may not happen for 6 years. He gets his rent paid and receives monthly benefits that amount to over half my monthly earnings and also has a thing where if he feels owning dive kit or gaming stuff, pushbike whatever, will help his mental health, it will be funded. I have complicated ptsd and borderline personality and yet I ve never received benefits and never been unemployed. So its not just the incomers on boats, sorry. | |||
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"It’s not free Semantics. It is free if you've never paid taxes. " Everyone pays taxes like vat for example | |||
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"It’s not free Semantics. It is free if you've never paid taxes. Everyone pays taxes like vat for example " You're still playing semantics. Nobody who's only contribution is VAT is a net asset to the nation, so yep, their NHS services are indeed free. Just because someone pays a tax, any tax at all, does not mean they contribute more than they take. The nation's financial deficit suggests that we cant raise enough through taxes to keep the country running as it is. | |||
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"It’s not free " Obviously not. Any service costs money. But it's free at the point of aquisition. | |||
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"It’s not free " It's as good as. The couple of pounds you pay in tax pays for whatever you might need - from a plaster cast on a broken leg to a heart transplant. No extra fees. Also, if the NHS went private, who thinks we'd all get a reduction on our PAYE for that percentage which was previously allocated to the NHS?  | |||
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"I'm in the middle of reading a book by Tim Harford which examines the logistics of statistics. Headlines, that's all it is. Actually, the health of the nation is improving all the time. People are living longer year on year. Problem is that does not make good headlines. We're not interested in long term news, we just want today's story, no matter how wrong - it just has to be sensational. " Is that due to people striving to be healthier, or because they have services that keep them healthier and live longer like the NHS? Obesity and diabetes is epidemic and an enormous drain on the NHS, so I doubt it's due to people generally trying to be healthier. | |||
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"I'm in the middle of reading a book by Tim Harford which examines the logistics of statistics. Headlines, that's all it is. Actually, the health of the nation is improving all the time. People are living longer year on year. Problem is that does not make good headlines. We're not interested in long term news, we just want today's story, no matter how wrong - it just has to be sensational. Is that due to people striving to be healthier, or because they have services that keep them healthier and live longer like the NHS? Obesity and diabetes is epidemic and an enormous drain on the NHS, so I doubt it's due to people generally trying to be healthier." Better outcomes on diseases such as cancer, cardiovascular disease - also people have less risk in their lives - health and safety, less physical and dangerous jobs, people drink less - it's multi-faceted | |||
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"It’s not free Semantics. It is free if you've never paid taxes. Everyone pays taxes like vat for example You're still playing semantics. Nobody who's only contribution is VAT is a net asset to the nation, so yep, their NHS services are indeed free. Just because someone pays a tax, any tax at all, does not mean they contribute more than they take. The nation's financial deficit suggests that we cant raise enough through taxes to keep the country running as it is." Closing loopholes, taxing wealth, taxing multinationals the same as the locals (which has just been stymied by Donny as it would take international co operation) would all help tax take meet outgoings. | |||
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"I'm in the middle of reading a book by Tim Harford which examines the logistics of statistics. Headlines, that's all it is. Actually, the health of the nation is improving all the time. People are living longer year on year. Problem is that does not make good headlines. We're not interested in long term news, we just want today's story, no matter how wrong - it just has to be sensational. Is that due to people striving to be healthier, or because they have services that keep them healthier and live longer like the NHS? Obesity and diabetes is epidemic and an enormous drain on the NHS, so I doubt it's due to people generally trying to be healthier. Better outcomes on diseases such as cancer, cardiovascular disease - also people have less risk in their lives - health and safety, less physical and dangerous jobs, people drink less - it's multi-faceted" In some respects, the NHS is a victim of its own success because, as you say, people with certain ailments were dying more in their 50's and 60's but these days they can fix a lot more. A few years ago I joined my local leisure centre where I regularly use the gym and swimming pool. I was encouraged to do so by the NHS scheme that gave me membership for just over £20 per month. That lasted for two years however I continued my membership after the NHS one had run its course. I'm much healthier these days having lost a lot of weight, and am no longer pre-diabetic. | |||
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