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"Hence the standard army mantra about the yanks:”all the gear- no idea”" All the gear, no idea. I like that. However, given that the missile is 'highly sophisticated' and 'precision guided' i find it impossible to believe that this was anything other than deliberate. | |||
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"And there was me thinking it was going to be a nice thread about apple blossom and recipes for apple pie. Instead the three millionth thread attacking Trumpety Trump and Binny Netan-yahoo" Yeah, sorry.  | |||
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"And there was me thinking it was going to be a nice thread about apple blossom and recipes for apple pie. Instead the three millionth thread attacking Trumpety Trump and Binny Netan-yahoo Yeah, sorry. "Just kidding.  | |||
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"Of course it was them! They're trying to dodge it because it's a war crime. Netanyahu started this, he has elections coming up and needs to look statesmanlike. Similarly Trump has mid terms coming up and wants to do the same. Seven US soldiers dead plus countless civilians. A girls school bombed and an Iranian ship posing no threat whatsoever torpedoed out of the water. The US then watched on as 80 plus sailors died without offering any assistance. Christ! Even the Germans did that! Trump is not winning this war as he claims. He cannot topple the IRGC because he has no idea where they are." 
Don't understand how anyone can claim not to care when gung ho yanks are murdering hundreds of innocents and, in the process, riding roughshod over established rules of engagement (and, if that wasn't bad enough, they then go on to brag about it).
Maybe people will care more when it starts hitting them in their pockets - the only thing some seem to comprehend, sadly | |||
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"We aren’t directly involved in these ‘crimes’, and I can’t have any effect on the election or not of either leader that is. So frankly, I don’t really care." Speaking out is the only way to bring about change. No-one can expect to overturn more than a century of dogma and indoctrination overnight but it's better than doing nothing. One might even say that by doing nothing one is condoning what's happening. The voices speaking out against both the Israeli regime and the American support of it grow more numerous with time, Jews among them, so i feel there is some hope yet. | |||
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"Hope many apple trees has Trump destroyed in Tehran? The Iranian Cider Company may go bankrupt this year." I can't imagine there any but if there were i can't imagine that you would support their destruction either. | |||
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"Hope many apple trees has Trump destroyed in Tehran? The Iranian Cider Company may go bankrupt this year. I can't imagine there any but if there were i can't imagine that you would support their destruction either." There's plenty of footage of Israelis ripping out thousand year old Olive groves to satisfy you though. | |||
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"Hope many apple trees has Trump destroyed in Tehran? The Iranian Cider Company may go bankrupt this year. I can't imagine there any but if there were i can't imagine that you would support their destruction either. There's plenty of footage of Israelis ripping out thousand year old Olive groves to satisfy you though." Even though I'm an army veteran I don't advocate war. Trouble is very often there is no right or wrong side. Wars rarely start without provocation | |||
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"Hope many apple trees has Trump destroyed in Tehran? The Iranian Cider Company may go bankrupt this year. I can't imagine there any but if there were i can't imagine that you would support their destruction either. There's plenty of footage of Israelis ripping out thousand year old Olive groves to satisfy you though. Even though I'm an army veteran I don't advocate war. Trouble is very often there is no right or wrong side. Wars rarely start without provocation" Absolutely but we need to understand where that provocation started. | |||
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"Hope many apple trees has Trump destroyed in Tehran? The Iranian Cider Company may go bankrupt this year. I can't imagine there any but if there were i can't imagine that you would support their destruction either. There's plenty of footage of Israelis ripping out thousand year old Olive groves to satisfy you though. Even though I'm an army veteran I don't advocate war. Trouble is very often there is no right or wrong side. Wars rarely start without provocation Absolutely but we need to understand where that provocation started." Admit might be a better word than understand. | |||
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"often there is no right or wrong side. Wars rarely start without provocation" There's only two (three) wrong sides in this. Israel rightly sees Iran and its proxies as an existential threat but goes completely over the top in reacting to that. Iran is complex but its actions show it for what it is: a benighted theocracy still living in the Middle Ages socially even with the benefit of modern technology. The US looks more and more like a "Christian" version of the same, and a lot more similar to Iran than it likes to think it is. Trump is an idiot and easily swayed by those close to him and you can bet the indiscriminate carpet bombing tactics are all Hegseth with his crusader tattoos, naive belief in military aggression as the only way, and Call of Duty level understanding of how wars actually work. | |||
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"We aren’t directly involved in these ‘crimes’, and I can’t have any effect on the election or not of either leader that is. So frankly, I don’t really care. Speaking out is the only way to bring about change. No-one can expect to overturn more than a century of dogma and indoctrination overnight but it's better than doing nothing. One might even say that by doing nothing one is condoning what's happening. The voices speaking out against both the Israeli regime and the American support of it grow more numerous with time, Jews among them, so i feel there is some hope yet." There are regime changes needed all over the world. There are innocents being killed worldwide. They aren't all caused by America and/or Israel, however these are the ones you choose to call out and speak out about. Do you condone the others by not speaking about them or aren’t their bandwagons big enough to be jumped on yet or is it just your personal hatred of the US and Israel that drives you on? | |||
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"We aren’t directly involved in these ‘crimes’, and I can’t have any effect on the election or not of either leader that is. So frankly, I don’t really care. Speaking out is the only way to bring about change. No-one can expect to overturn more than a century of dogma and indoctrination overnight but it's better than doing nothing. One might even say that by doing nothing one is condoning what's happening. The voices speaking out against both the Israeli regime and the American support of it grow more numerous with time, Jews among them, so i feel there is some hope yet. There are regime changes needed all over the world. There are innocents being killed worldwide. They aren't all caused by America and/or Israel, however these are the ones you choose to call out and speak out about. Do you condone the others by not speaking about them or aren’t their bandwagons big enough to be jumped on yet or is it just your personal hatred of the US and Israel that drives you on? " That's a good point, of course there are many instances where regime change would be beneficial. Why not start your own thread about the ones that particularly grind your gears so we can condemn those? You are correct in my hatred of both Israel and the vast majority of Israelis, i've never hidden that fact. You ask why i choose to concentrate on this conflict? Condemning every single corrupt regime in the world would prove far too time consuming. This one is close to home, contains all the worst aspects of European colonialism and continues to do so with none of the benefits at a time when i had thought most of us believe colonialism to be a bad thing. Not to mention the appalling lack of any justification. | |||
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"We aren’t directly involved in these ‘crimes’, and I can’t have any effect on the election or not of either leader that is. So frankly, I don’t really care. Speaking out is the only way to bring about change. No-one can expect to overturn more than a century of dogma and indoctrination overnight but it's better than doing nothing. One might even say that by doing nothing one is condoning what's happening. The voices speaking out against both the Israeli regime and the American support of it grow more numerous with time, Jews among them, so i feel there is some hope yet. There are regime changes needed all over the world. There are innocents being killed worldwide. They aren't all caused by America and/or Israel, however these are the ones you choose to call out and speak out about. Do you condone the others by not speaking about them or aren’t their bandwagons big enough to be jumped on yet or is it just your personal hatred of the US and Israel that drives you on? That's a good point, of course there are many instances where regime change would be beneficial. Why not start your own thread about the ones that particularly grind your gears so we can condemn those? You are correct in my hatred of both Israel and the vast majority of Israelis, i've never hidden that fact. You ask why i choose to concentrate on this conflict? Condemning every single corrupt regime in the world would prove far too time consuming. This one is close to home, contains all the worst aspects of European colonialism and continues to do so with none of the benefits at a time when i had thought most of us believe colonialism to be a bad thing. Not to mention the appalling lack of any justification." If starting a thread on a minority forum was likely to be even noticed, never mind make any change, then it might be worthwhile. However the only use it really is, is to allow people to vent their anger on things that they otherwise have no control over. As I don’t get worked up or angry about such things, I have no need whatsoever to start threads about them. Change the things you can, ignore the things you can’t. It’s a simple enough philosophy that saves lots of wasted time and energy. | |||
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"If starting a thread on a minority forum was likely to be even noticed, never mind make any change, then it might be worthwhile. However the only use it really is, is to allow people to vent their anger on things that they otherwise have no control over. As I don’t get worked up or angry about such things, I have no need whatsoever to start threads about them. Change the things you can, ignore the things you can’t. It’s a simple enough philosophy that saves lots of wasted time and energy." I find it difficult to believe that anyone can view atrocities committed across the world in such an emotionless manner. | |||
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"If starting a thread on a minority forum was likely to be even noticed, never mind make any change, then it might be worthwhile. However the only use it really is, is to allow people to vent their anger on things that they otherwise have no control over. As I don’t get worked up or angry about such things, I have no need whatsoever to start threads about them. Change the things you can, ignore the things you can’t. It’s a simple enough philosophy that saves lots of wasted time and energy. I find it difficult to believe that anyone can view atrocities committed across the world in such an emotionless manner. " ------ I find it difficult to believe that someone is attempting to shame another's lack of apparent empathy, when they themselves ignore atrocities across the world unless they are in some way connected to one particular ethno/religious group/country.  | |||
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"If starting a thread on a minority forum was likely to be even noticed, never mind make any change, then it might be worthwhile. However the only use it really is, is to allow people to vent their anger on things that they otherwise have no control over. As I don’t get worked up or angry about such things, I have no need whatsoever to start threads about them. Change the things you can, ignore the things you can’t. It’s a simple enough philosophy that saves lots of wasted time and energy. I find it difficult to believe that anyone can view atrocities committed across the world in such an emotionless manner. " The point is, DD, there are many atrocities being committed across the world at the moment: Ukraine, Sudan, Nigeria and goodness knows how many other countries, as well as the Middle-East. Most get the occasional 2 minute slot once in awhile on the newsreels, or a brief column in the world news in the better class newspapers. We can do nothing about it unless we are prepared to get off our backsides, leave our comfy lives and go to these unfortunate places and either join in the fight on the alleged 'right side' or physically help bring relief to the suffering. | |||
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"If starting a thread on a minority forum was likely to be even noticed, never mind make any change, then it might be worthwhile. However the only use it really is, is to allow people to vent their anger on things that they otherwise have no control over. As I don’t get worked up or angry about such things, I have no need whatsoever to start threads about them. Change the things you can, ignore the things you can’t. It’s a simple enough philosophy that saves lots of wasted time and energy. I find it difficult to believe that anyone can view atrocities committed across the world in such an emotionless manner. ------ I find it difficult to believe that someone is attempting to shame another's lack of apparent empathy, when they themselves ignore atrocities across the world unless they are in some way connected to one particular ethno/religious group/country. "I'm not ignoring anything. As i've stated before it's impossible for me to start a thread on every single atrocity being committed in the world today, time simply won't allow it, and it's unreasonable to expect me to do so. Where members have started posts on other atrocities they care about i have contributed. If there is one in particular that you wish to draw attention to i invite you to start your own thread that i can contribute to. Congratulations, by the way, in avoiding use of the word 'race'. Perhaps my posts are having some effect after all. | |||
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"If starting a thread on a minority forum was likely to be even noticed, never mind make any change, then it might be worthwhile. However the only use it really is, is to allow people to vent their anger on things that they otherwise have no control over. As I don’t get worked up or angry about such things, I have no need whatsoever to start threads about them. Change the things you can, ignore the things you can’t. It’s a simple enough philosophy that saves lots of wasted time and energy. I find it difficult to believe that anyone can view atrocities committed across the world in such an emotionless manner. The point is, DD, there are many atrocities being committed across the world at the moment: Ukraine, Sudan, Nigeria and goodness knows how many other countries, as well as the Middle-East. Most get the occasional 2 minute slot once in awhile on the newsreels, or a brief column in the world news in the better class newspapers. We can do nothing about it unless we are prepared to get off our backsides, leave our comfy lives and go to these unfortunate places and either join in the fight on the alleged 'right side' or physically help bring relief to the suffering." You make the mistake of thinking that my actions are limited to what you read on this forum. | |||
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"If starting a thread on a minority forum was likely to be even noticed, never mind make any change, then it might be worthwhile. However the only use it really is, is to allow people to vent their anger on things that they otherwise have no control over. As I don’t get worked up or angry about such things, I have no need whatsoever to start threads about them. Change the things you can, ignore the things you can’t. It’s a simple enough philosophy that saves lots of wasted time and energy. I find it difficult to believe that anyone can view atrocities committed across the world in such an emotionless manner. The point is, DD, there are many atrocities being committed across the world at the moment: Ukraine, Sudan, Nigeria and goodness knows how many other countries, as well as the Middle-East. Most get the occasional 2 minute slot once in awhile on the newsreels, or a brief column in the world news in the better class newspapers. We can do nothing about it unless we are prepared to get off our backsides, leave our comfy lives and go to these unfortunate places and either join in the fight on the alleged 'right side' or physically help bring relief to the suffering. You make the mistake of thinking that my actions are limited to what you read on this forum." What do you expect? All we ever see on these forum is your blind hatred of Israel and your equally blind support for Palestine. | |||
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" What do you expect? All we ever see on these forum is your blind hatred of Israel and your equally blind support for Palestine." Yes, I agree with this observation. Never condemns Palestinians who voted in terrorists to commit atrocities in their name. | |||
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"If starting a thread on a minority forum was likely to be even noticed, never mind make any change, then it might be worthwhile. However the only use it really is, is to allow people to vent their anger on things that they otherwise have no control over. As I don’t get worked up or angry about such things, I have no need whatsoever to start threads about them. Change the things you can, ignore the things you can’t. It’s a simple enough philosophy that saves lots of wasted time and energy. I find it difficult to believe that anyone can view atrocities committed across the world in such an emotionless manner. The point is, DD, there are many atrocities being committed across the world at the moment: Ukraine, Sudan, Nigeria and goodness knows how many other countries, as well as the Middle-East. Most get the occasional 2 minute slot once in awhile on the newsreels, or a brief column in the world news in the better class newspapers. We can do nothing about it unless we are prepared to get off our backsides, leave our comfy lives and go to these unfortunate places and either join in the fight on the alleged 'right side' or physically help bring relief to the suffering. You make the mistake of thinking that my actions are limited to what you read on this forum. What do you expect? All we ever see on these forum is your blind hatred of Israel and your equally blind support for Palestine." Then i have just informed you otherwise, we should all be wary of making such 'blind' assumptions. | |||
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" ------ I find it difficult to believe that someone is attempting to shame another's lack of apparent empathy, when they themselves ignore atrocities across the world unless they are in some way connected to one particular ethno/religious group/country.
I'm not ignoring anything. As i've stated before it's impossible for me to start a thread on every single atrocity being committed in the world today, time simply won't allow it, and it's unreasonable to expect me to do so.
Where members have started posts on other atrocities they care about i have contributed. If there is one in particular that you wish to draw attention to i invite you to start your own thread that i can contribute to.
Congratulations, by the way, in avoiding use of the word 'race'. Perhaps my posts are having some effect after all."The only thing that I have learned from your posts is what you really are. | |||
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" ------ I find it difficult to believe that someone is attempting to shame another's lack of apparent empathy, when they themselves ignore atrocities across the world unless they are in some way connected to one particular ethno/religious group/country.
I'm not ignoring anything. As i've stated before it's impossible for me to start a thread on every single atrocity being committed in the world today, time simply won't allow it, and it's unreasonable to expect me to do so.
Where members have started posts on other atrocities they care about i have contributed. If there is one in particular that you wish to draw attention to i invite you to start your own thread that i can contribute to.
Congratulations, by the way, in avoiding use of the word 'race'. Perhaps my posts are having some effect after all.
The only thing that I have learned from your posts is what you really are. "Knowledgeable, yes i already know. | |||
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" ------ I find it difficult to believe that someone is attempting to shame another's lack of apparent empathy, when they themselves ignore atrocities across the world unless they are in some way connected to one particular ethno/religious group/country.
I'm not ignoring anything. As i've stated before it's impossible for me to start a thread on every single atrocity being committed in the world today, time simply won't allow it, and it's unreasonable to expect me to do so.
Where members have started posts on other atrocities they care about i have contributed. If there is one in particular that you wish to draw attention to i invite you to start your own thread that i can contribute to.
Congratulations, by the way, in avoiding use of the word 'race'. Perhaps my posts are having some effect after all.
The only thing that I have learned from your posts is what you really are.
Knowledgeable, yes i already know."A knowledgeable person would know that ethnicity includes ancestry. | |||
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" ------ I find it difficult to believe that someone is attempting to shame another's lack of apparent empathy, when they themselves ignore atrocities across the world unless they are in some way connected to one particular ethno/religious group/country.
I'm not ignoring anything. As i've stated before it's impossible for me to start a thread on every single atrocity being committed in the world today, time simply won't allow it, and it's unreasonable to expect me to do so.
Where members have started posts on other atrocities they care about i have contributed. If there is one in particular that you wish to draw attention to i invite you to start your own thread that i can contribute to.
Congratulations, by the way, in avoiding use of the word 'race'. Perhaps my posts are having some effect after all.
The only thing that I have learned from your posts is what you really are.
Knowledgeable, yes i already know.
A knowledgeable person would know that ethnicity includes ancestry. "Race and ethnicity are not the same. | |||
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" What do you expect? All we ever see on these forum is your blind hatred of Israel and your equally blind support for Palestine. Yes, I agree with this observation. Never condemns Palestinians who voted in terrorists to commit atrocities in their name." What is considered an act of terror is clear, whether such agencies committing these acts of terror are considered terrorists is entirely subjective. Consider the French Resistance, they committed multiple acts of terror yet they are labelled as freedom fighters never as terrorists. Why is that and where lies the difference? I should point out that i have previously spoken out against the actions of Hamas, what i did also say was that i understand what motivates them. Perhaps that is the source of your confusion. | |||
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" What do you expect? All we ever see on these forum is your blind hatred of Israel and your equally blind support for Palestine. Yes, I agree with this observation. Never condemns Palestinians who voted in terrorists to commit atrocities in their name. What is considered an act of terror is clear, whether such agencies committing these acts of terror are considered terrorists is entirely subjective. Consider the French Resistance, they committed multiple acts of terror yet they are labelled as freedom fighters never as terrorists. Why is that and where lies the difference? I should point out that i have previously spoken out against the actions of Hamas, what i did also say was that i understand what motivates them. Perhaps that is the source of your confusion." Is it too much to mention that invading Jews are also guilty of committing acts of terror to gain foothold in Palestine? Not to mention everything they've done since. Or is that something best overlooked? | |||
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"An apple does not fall far from the tree. " Nuts on the other hand... | |||
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"If starting a thread on a minority forum was likely to be even noticed, never mind make any change, then it might be worthwhile. However the only use it really is, is to allow people to vent their anger on things that they otherwise have no control over. As I don’t get worked up or angry about such things, I have no need whatsoever to start threads about them. Change the things you can, ignore the things you can’t. It’s a simple enough philosophy that saves lots of wasted time and energy. I find it difficult to believe that anyone can view atrocities committed across the world in such an emotionless manner. The point is, DD, there are many atrocities being committed across the world at the moment: Ukraine, Sudan, Nigeria and goodness knows how many other countries, as well as the Middle-East. Most get the occasional 2 minute slot once in awhile on the newsreels, or a brief column in the world news in the better class newspapers. We can do nothing about it unless we are prepared to get off our backsides, leave our comfy lives and go to these unfortunate places and either join in the fight on the alleged 'right side' or physically help bring relief to the suffering. You make the mistake of thinking that my actions are limited to what you read on this forum. What do you expect? All we ever see on these forum is your blind hatred of Israel and your equally blind support for Palestine. Then i have just informed you otherwise, we should all be wary of making such 'blind' assumptions." When you condemn the terrorism attacks mase by ISIS, Hezbollah, Al Quaeda, Taliban Boko Haram, Al Shabaab etc with the same vehemence as you condemn IDF then I might start to take notice of you | |||
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" Is it too much to mention that invading Jews are also guilty of committing acts of terror to gain foothold in Palestine? Not to mention everything they've done since. Or is that something best overlooked?" History doesn’t recognise a state of Palestine so there was no foothold to gain by the Jews, who are the indigenous peoples of that area of the Levant anyway. | |||
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"If starting a thread on a minority forum was likely to be even noticed, never mind make any change, then it might be worthwhile. However the only use it really is, is to allow people to vent their anger on things that they otherwise have no control over. As I don’t get worked up or angry about such things, I have no need whatsoever to start threads about them. Change the things you can, ignore the things you can’t. It’s a simple enough philosophy that saves lots of wasted time and energy. I find it difficult to believe that anyone can view atrocities committed across the world in such an emotionless manner. ------ I find it difficult to believe that someone is attempting to shame another's lack of apparent empathy, when they themselves ignore atrocities across the world unless they are in some way connected to one particular ethno/religious group/country. "When I could help change things I did. The protests and activism I helped in in my youth mean that we are no longer vilified on sites looks this. It has changed the way people are treated, both because of race and sexual orientation. I got up and did stuff I didn’t just complain. Don’t confuse not taking part in things I can’t change with a lack of empathy. It is more a case of picking the right battles to fight, and not just spouting off because I’m angry. | |||
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" Is it too much to mention that invading Jews are also guilty of committing acts of terror to gain foothold in Palestine? Not to mention everything they've done since. Or is that something best overlooked? History doesn’t recognise a state of Palestine so there was no foothold to gain by the Jews, who are the indigenous peoples of that area of the Levant anyway." Here's a quote from an eminent academic and historian and Jew, please note: "The Jews returning to Palestine are not the Jews that left at The Fall of the Second Temple. They are converts or the descendents of converts". If you go back far enough all Jews since the very inception of Judaism are converts and the descendants of converts. A choice they made at the time. I fail to see how that can give them priority. Palestine incidently was the name given to Canaan by the ancient Greeks, that alone suggests that Judaism superceded a people who've always be there. Also, if you believe that Judaism began in Israel that makes Jews and Palestinians the same people. Why should one be granted dominion, therefore, over another particularly when that dominion involves subjugation and slaughter? | |||
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"An apple does not fall far from the tree. Nuts on the other hand..." But an apple a day... | |||
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"If starting a thread on a minority forum was likely to be even noticed, never mind make any change, then it might be worthwhile. However the only use it really is, is to allow people to vent their anger on things that they otherwise have no control over. As I don’t get worked up or angry about such things, I have no need whatsoever to start threads about them. Change the things you can, ignore the things you can’t. It’s a simple enough philosophy that saves lots of wasted time and energy. I find it difficult to believe that anyone can view atrocities committed across the world in such an emotionless manner. The point is, DD, there are many atrocities being committed across the world at the moment: Ukraine, Sudan, Nigeria and goodness knows how many other countries, as well as the Middle-East. Most get the occasional 2 minute slot once in awhile on the newsreels, or a brief column in the world news in the better class newspapers. We can do nothing about it unless we are prepared to get off our backsides, leave our comfy lives and go to these unfortunate places and either join in the fight on the alleged 'right side' or physically help bring relief to the suffering. You make the mistake of thinking that my actions are limited to what you read on this forum. What do you expect? All we ever see on these forum is your blind hatred of Israel and your equally blind support for Palestine. Then i have just informed you otherwise, we should all be wary of making such 'blind' assumptions. When you condemn the terrorism attacks mase by ISIS, Hezbollah, Al Quaeda, Taliban Boko Haram, Al Shabaab etc with the same vehemence as you condemn IDF then I might start to take notice of you" What about justification? One is a tale of a people trying to protect their land and culture from a foreign invader. The other is a tale of a foreign invader trying to protect land they stole from the former. When justification becomes equal then so will my vehemence. | |||
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" Also, if you believe that Judaism began in Israel that makes Jews and Palestinians the same people. Why should one be granted dominion, therefore, over another particularly when that dominion involves subjugation and slaughter?" But there is no ‘Palestinian’ DNA just as there is no American or Australian DNA. But Jewish DNA will trace back thousands of years to ancient Canaan & Judea, the original inhabitants of this Levant area. So yes, a Palestinian could only come from the Jew. The Jews are not settlers & the Palestinians have never had a land other than what was already a Jewish land. The Jew are significantly older than the Arab, the Muslim & the ‘Palestinians,’ even their language predates all other in that region. Of all the three Abrahamic religions & scriptures, Israel & the Jews are described extensively, Palestinians not once, not even in the Quran. Just who’s land has the Jew taken from? | |||
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"If starting a thread on a minority forum was likely to be even noticed, never mind make any change, then it might be worthwhile. However the only use it really is, is to allow people to vent their anger on things that they otherwise have no control over. As I don’t get worked up or angry about such things, I have no need whatsoever to start threads about them. Change the things you can, ignore the things you can’t. It’s a simple enough philosophy that saves lots of wasted time and energy. I find it difficult to believe that anyone can view atrocities committed across the world in such an emotionless manner. The point is, DD, there are many atrocities being committed across the world at the moment: Ukraine, Sudan, Nigeria and goodness knows how many other countries, as well as the Middle-East. Most get the occasional 2 minute slot once in awhile on the newsreels, or a brief column in the world news in the better class newspapers. We can do nothing about it unless we are prepared to get off our backsides, leave our comfy lives and go to these unfortunate places and either join in the fight on the alleged 'right side' or physically help bring relief to the suffering. You make the mistake of thinking that my actions are limited to what you read on this forum. What do you expect? All we ever see on these forum is your blind hatred of Israel and your equally blind support for Palestine. Then i have just informed you otherwise, we should all be wary of making such 'blind' assumptions. When you condemn the terrorism attacks mase by ISIS, Hezbollah, Al Quaeda, Taliban Boko Haram, Al Shabaab etc with the same vehemence as you condemn IDF then I might start to take notice of you What about justification? One is a tale of a people trying to protect their land and culture from a foreign invader. The other is a tale of a foreign invader trying to protect land they stole from the former. When justification becomes equal then so will my vehemence." It occurred to me last night that i could just as easily be describing the formation of the USA. A reason for the west to support Israel, that they are no different? | |||
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" Also, if you believe that Judaism began in Israel that makes Jews and Palestinians the same people. Why should one be granted dominion, therefore, over another particularly when that dominion involves subjugation and slaughter? But there is no ‘Palestinian’ DNA just as there is no American or Australian DNA. But Jewish DNA will trace back thousands of years to ancient Canaan & Judea, the original inhabitants of this Levant area. So yes, a Palestinian could only come from the Jew. The Jews are not settlers & the Palestinians have never had a land other than what was already a Jewish land. The Jew are significantly older than the Arab, the Muslim & the ‘Palestinians,’ even their language predates all other in that region. Of all the three Abrahamic religions & scriptures, Israel & the Jews are described extensively, Palestinians not once, not even in the Quran. Just who’s land has the Jew taken from?" You really do believe all that don't you? Explain to me then the conquest of Canaan by the Jews around 1200BC, glorified in the Book of Joshua that boasts how the pagans were "utterly annihilated". They took the land by force then, now history repeats itself. | |||
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" What do you expect? All we ever see on these forum is your blind hatred of Israel and your equally blind support for Palestine. Then i have just informed you otherwise, we should all be wary of making such 'blind' assumptions. When you condemn the terrorism attacks mase by ISIS, Hezbollah, Al Qaeda, Taliban Boko Haram, Al Shabaab etc with the same vehemence as you condemn IDF then I might start to take notice of you What about justification? One is a tale of a people trying to protect their land and culture from a foreign invader. The other is a tale of a foreign invader trying to protect land they stole from the former. When justification becomes equal then so will my vehemence." All I can say is that you have a very narrow and very blinkered view of things. Very few people in the world are of a 'pure ethnicity or race'. People movement has been fluid for centuries. You try to claim that the Jews were not the original inhabitants of what is now known as the State of Israel yet I doubt that many 'Palestinians' can claim ancestry there back three millennia. Most are from Jordan, Syria or Egypt. I may not agree with Israeli attempts to settle the West Bank and I do believe in an independent or at least autonomous Palestinian state. But I also believe in the right of the State of Israel to exist. Plus I note you do not comment about all those terrorist groups I mentioned. | |||
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" What do you expect? All we ever see on these forum is your blind hatred of Israel and your equally blind support for Palestine. Then i have just informed you otherwise, we should all be wary of making such 'blind' assumptions. When you condemn the terrorism attacks mase by ISIS, Hezbollah, Al Qaeda, Taliban Boko Haram, Al Shabaab etc with the same vehemence as you condemn IDF then I might start to take notice of you What about justification? One is a tale of a people trying to protect their land and culture from a foreign invader. The other is a tale of a foreign invader trying to protect land they stole from the former. When justification becomes equal then so will my vehemence. All I can say is that you have a very narrow and very blinkered view of things. Very few people in the world are of a 'pure ethnicity or race'. People movement has been fluid for centuries. You try to claim that the Jews were not the original inhabitants of what is now known as the State of Israel yet I doubt that many 'Palestinians' can claim ancestry there back three millennia. Most are from Jordan, Syria or Egypt. I may not agree with Israeli attempts to settle the West Bank and I do believe in an independent or at least autonomous Palestinian state. But I also believe in the right of the State of Israel to exist. Plus I note you do not comment about all those terrorist groups I mentioned." I hear you. I find all forms of religious extremism abhorrent, that includes radical Judaism and radical Christianity as well as radical Islam. Forgive me for not commenting on the groups you mention, i condemn their actions too. I am merely trying to focus on Palestine and not go off on tangents. I should point out that racial integrity is a core tenet of Zionist extremism but i ask you why you believe in the validity of an Iraeli state? Israel ceased to exist in 720BC, Jews ceased to be the majority in the region in 500AD. This is all a long time ago. 99% of Jews have no link to Palestine whatsoever beyond the religious beliefs they choose to uphold. Is it really acceptable to grant them dominion based purely on religious proclivity? They claim to come from Palestine, a land allegedly that they took by force. Even if this is true, given that migration so commonplace in human behaviour is it really relevant where one might have come from thousands of years ago? Regarding your mention of Palestinian ancestry. The majority are remnants of the Canaanite population the Jews claim to have destroyed. Many can still be found in Lebanon and Syria and further afield. They were 'Arabised' by the invading Muslims not supplanted. In short i do not believe that Europeans have any place in Palestine, let alone be allowed to commit brutal acts to maintain that hold, just because their forefathers converted to Judaism. | |||
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" What do you expect? All we ever see on these forum is your blind hatred of Israel and your equally blind support for Palestine. Then i have just informed you otherwise, we should all be wary of making such 'blind' assumptions. When you condemn the terrorism attacks mase by ISIS, Hezbollah, Al Qaeda, Taliban Boko Haram, Al Shabaab etc with the same vehemence as you condemn IDF then I might start to take notice of you What about justification? One is a tale of a people trying to protect their land and culture from a foreign invader. The other is a tale of a foreign invader trying to protect land they stole from the former. When justification becomes equal then so will my vehemence. All I can say is that you have a very narrow and very blinkered view of things. Very few people in the world are of a 'pure ethnicity or race'. People movement has been fluid for centuries. You try to claim that the Jews were not the original inhabitants of what is now known as the State of Israel yet I doubt that many 'Palestinians' can claim ancestry there back three millennia. Most are from Jordan, Syria or Egypt. I may not agree with Israeli attempts to settle the West Bank and I do believe in an independent or at least autonomous Palestinian state. But I also believe in the right of the State of Israel to exist. Plus I note you do not comment about all those terrorist groups I mentioned. I hear you. I find all forms of religious extremism abhorrent, that includes radical Judaism and radical Christianity as well as radical Islam. Forgive me for not commenting on the groups you mention, i condemn their actions too. I am merely trying to focus on Palestine and not go off on tangents. I should point out that racial integrity is a core tenet of Zionist extremism but i ask you why you believe in the validity of an Iraeli state? Israel ceased to exist in 720BC, Jews ceased to be the majority in the region in 500AD. This is all a long time ago. 99% of Jews have no link to Palestine whatsoever beyond the religious beliefs they choose to uphold. Is it really acceptable to grant them dominion based purely on religious proclivity? They claim to come from Palestine, a land allegedly that they took by force. Even if this is true, given that migration so commonplace in human behaviour is it really relevant where one might have come from thousands of years ago? Regarding your mention of Palestinian ancestry. The majority are remnants of the Canaanite population the Jews claim to have destroyed. Many can still be found in Lebanon and Syria and further afield. They were 'Arabised' by the invading Muslims not supplanted. In short i do not believe that Europeans have any place in Palestine, let alone be allowed to commit brutal acts to maintain that hold, just because their forefathers converted to Judaism." Maybe if straight people crossbred more. Make love not war. | |||
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" What do you expect? All we ever see on these forum is your blind hatred of Israel and your equally blind support for Palestine. Then i have just informed you otherwise, we should all be wary of making such 'blind' assumptions. When you condemn the terrorism attacks mase by ISIS, Hezbollah, Al Qaeda, Taliban Boko Haram, Al Shabaab etc with the same vehemence as you condemn IDF then I might start to take notice of you What about justification? One is a tale of a people trying to protect their land and culture from a foreign invader. The other is a tale of a foreign invader trying to protect land they stole from the former. When justification becomes equal then so will my vehemence. All I can say is that you have a very narrow and very blinkered view of things. Very few people in the world are of a 'pure ethnicity or race'. People movement has been fluid for centuries. You try to claim that the Jews were not the original inhabitants of what is now known as the State of Israel yet I doubt that many 'Palestinians' can claim ancestry there back three millennia. Most are from Jordan, Syria or Egypt. I may not agree with Israeli attempts to settle the West Bank and I do believe in an independent or at least autonomous Palestinian state. But I also believe in the right of the State of Israel to exist. Plus I note you do not comment about all those terrorist groups I mentioned. I hear you. I find all forms of religious extremism abhorrent, that includes radical Judaism and radical Christianity as well as radical Islam. Forgive me for not commenting on the groups you mention, i condemn their actions too. I am merely trying to focus on Palestine and not go off on tangents. I should point out that racial integrity is a core tenet of Zionist extremism but i ask you why you believe in the validity of an Iraeli state? Israel ceased to exist in 720BC, Jews ceased to be the majority in the region in 500AD. This is all a long time ago. 99% of Jews have no link to Palestine whatsoever beyond the religious beliefs they choose to uphold. Is it really acceptable to grant them dominion based purely on religious proclivity? They claim to come from Palestine, a land allegedly that they took by force. Even if this is true, given that migration so commonplace in human behaviour is it really relevant where one might have come from thousands of years ago? Regarding your mention of Palestinian ancestry. The majority are remnants of the Canaanite population the Jews claim to have destroyed. Many can still be found in Lebanon and Syria and further afield. They were 'Arabised' by the invading Muslims not supplanted. In short i do not believe that Europeans have any place in Palestine, let alone be allowed to commit brutal acts to maintain that hold, just because their forefathers converted to Judaism." Your argument sounds a bit like a justification for ethnic cleansing. A high percentage of Jews living in Israel were born there and have forebears dating back several generations. Apart from those who had actually lived there many centuries there was a big influx during the 19th century with the Russian pograms and the hostility towards Jews in the German Empire: the 2nd Reich before the 3rd Reich. Yes there are descendants of Canaanites, Phoenicians, Philistines, Samarians etc. It's a very mixed area ethically. It's also a very small area when you compare it to the surrounding Arabic states of the Middle-East and North Africa. As for the name well it was decided upon on independence. Judea and other names were evidently considered. Quite a few countries change their names for various reasons. Israel is frequently mentioned throughout the Bible. Palestine was a Greco-Roman name given to the area. I believe it has the same derivative as Palatine and basically means borderland | |||
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" In short i do not believe that Europeans have any place in Palestine, let alone be allowed to commit brutal acts to maintain that hold, just because their forefathers converted to Judaism." I do not believe that arguing blindly over Palestine and Israel on a gay forum is going to make the slightest difference to anybody. But I know that both beliefs won’t change anything here either. | |||
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" What do you expect? All we ever see on these forum is your blind hatred of Israel and your equally blind support for Palestine. Then i have just informed you otherwise, we should all be wary of making such 'blind' assumptions. When you condemn the terrorism attacks mase by ISIS, Hezbollah, Al Qaeda, Taliban Boko Haram, Al Shabaab etc with the same vehemence as you condemn IDF then I might start to take notice of you What about justification? One is a tale of a people trying to protect their land and culture from a foreign invader. The other is a tale of a foreign invader trying to protect land they stole from the former. When justification becomes equal then so will my vehemence. All I can say is that you have a very narrow and very blinkered view of things. Very few people in the world are of a 'pure ethnicity or race'. People movement has been fluid for centuries. You try to claim that the Jews were not the original inhabitants of what is now known as the State of Israel yet I doubt that many 'Palestinians' can claim ancestry there back three millennia. Most are from Jordan, Syria or Egypt. I may not agree with Israeli attempts to settle the West Bank and I do believe in an independent or at least autonomous Palestinian state. But I also believe in the right of the State of Israel to exist. Plus I note you do not comment about all those terrorist groups I mentioned. I hear you. I find all forms of religious extremism abhorrent, that includes radical Judaism and radical Christianity as well as radical Islam. Forgive me for not commenting on the groups you mention, i condemn their actions too. I am merely trying to focus on Palestine and not go off on tangents. I should point out that racial integrity is a core tenet of Zionist extremism but i ask you why you believe in the validity of an Iraeli state? Israel ceased to exist in 720BC, Jews ceased to be the majority in the region in 500AD. This is all a long time ago. 99% of Jews have no link to Palestine whatsoever beyond the religious beliefs they choose to uphold. Is it really acceptable to grant them dominion based purely on religious proclivity? They claim to come from Palestine, a land allegedly that they took by force. Even if this is true, given that migration so commonplace in human behaviour is it really relevant where one might have come from thousands of years ago? Regarding your mention of Palestinian ancestry. The majority are remnants of the Canaanite population the Jews claim to have destroyed. Many can still be found in Lebanon and Syria and further afield. They were 'Arabised' by the invading Muslims not supplanted. In short i do not believe that Europeans have any place in Palestine, let alone be allowed to commit brutal acts to maintain that hold, just because their forefathers converted to Judaism. Your argument sounds a bit like a justification for ethnic cleansing. A high percentage of Jews living in Israel were born there and have forebears dating back several generations. Apart from those who had actually lived there many centuries there was a big influx during the 19th century with the Russian pograms and the hostility towards Jews in the German Empire: the 2nd Reich before the 3rd Reich. Yes there are descendants of Canaanites, Phoenicians, Philistines, Samarians etc. It's a very mixed area ethically. It's also a very small area when you compare it to the surrounding Arabic states of the Middle-East and North Africa. As for the name well it was decided upon on independence. Judea and other names were evidently considered. Quite a few countries change their names for various reasons. Israel is frequently mentioned throughout the Bible. Palestine was a Greco-Roman name given to the area. I believe it has the same derivative as Palatine and basically means borderland" Not ethnic cleansing no, though it's what the state of Israel is and has always been guilty of. I don't believe that Israel should ever have been allowed to come into fruition but it's here now so i have to poke up with it. I am aware of that. What i would have hoped for and expected is that the land be split equally. You might consider it a small area but that's only by virtue of a ruling imposed by the west. The area of land the Zionists originally demanded was much bigger and completely denied the existence of a Palestinian state in any form whatsoever. Of course countries have changed their names throughout history, usually as a result of a ruling by their own people or rulers. Here a name change is imposed by an invading force. I doubt Australia was called that by the Aborigines nor the USA by the native Americans (see the connection?). As for most Israelis being born there? Surely only recently, circa 1900 the Jewish population numbered no more than 8%, roughly 30,000 individuals therefore the majority living there now are outsiders or their descendants. They take the land by force and are allowed to illegally expand it purely on the basis of a religious proclivity they choose to uphold. Not only that but claims of ancestry that are increasingly being called into doubt based on a book of dubious historicity that no-one's quite sure when it was written. I don't see any of that as adequate justification, do you? By the way, Canaan was named Palestine by the ancient Greeks after the Pentopolis of Philistia, home to the Philistines. | |||
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" By the way, Canaan was named Palestine by the ancient Greeks after the Pentopolis of Philistia, home to the Philistines." The ancient and extinct Philistines inhabited the coastal areas of the Levant and Palestinians had/have nothing to do with them in any way. | |||
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"The point is DD the argument will go on until Doomsday. The area has been disputed and fought over for at least three thousand years. History varies. No one knows the absolute truth as so many versions and a lot only theories, usually put about by one side or the other to justify their viewpoint. Israel exists. It's not likely to go away. I'm not condoning all their actions but not condemning everything they do either. Also, as Franccd2 pointed out in his post, debating this subject on a gay forum is not going to make one iota of difference." Maybe, maybe not. A flood begins with a trickle. | |||
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"The point is DD the argument will go on until Doomsday. The area has been disputed and fought over for at least three thousand years. History varies. No one knows the absolute truth as so many versions and a lot only theories, usually put about by one side or the other to justify their viewpoint. Israel exists. It's not likely to go away. I'm not condoning all their actions but not condemning everything they do either. Also, as Franccd2 pointed out in his post, debating this subject on a gay forum is not going to make one iota of difference. Maybe, maybe not. A flood begins with a trickle." Somehow I don't think Mr Netanyahu will be reading the Fabguys forum and then say 'Okay chaps we'd better organise a mass exodus as someone says we are here illegally.' And your friends in Hamas are more likely to pelt you with the rubble from Gaza | |||
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"The point is DD the argument will go on until Doomsday. The area has been disputed and fought over for at least three thousand years. History varies. No one knows the absolute truth as so many versions and a lot only theories, usually put about by one side or the other to justify their viewpoint. Israel exists. It's not likely to go away. I'm not condoning all their actions but not condemning everything they do either. Also, as Franccd2 pointed out in his post, debating this subject on a gay forum is not going to make one iota of difference. Maybe, maybe not. A flood begins with a trickle. Somehow I don't think Mr Netanyahu will be reading the Fabguys forum and then say 'Okay chaps we'd better organise a mass exodus as someone says we are here illegally.' And your friends in Hamas are more likely to pelt you with the rubble from Gaza" Hamas are not my friends and these posts are not aimed at Netanyahu. I think you already know that. | |||
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