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"War crimes check out the bombing of the king David's Hotel " Is this like that game top trumps? Check out the hebron massacre.. | |||
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"It is unfortunate that it's essentially existential for both sides and it's come to where Israel has leveraged the American Christian Right (verging on Christo-Fascism with the avowed desire to have a theocracy just as narrow-minded as Iran's) in order to pursue their goal of wiping Iran out, just as Iran has been pursuing the same in reverse. The sad thing is that Jews coexisted peacefully in Muslim countries for a long time before the 20th century. Places like Samarkand and Bukhara had thriving and populous Jewish quarters. It seems to have been the state of Israel being parachuted into existence by a guilty Europe post WWII and the Nakba that polarised Arab opinion. Maybe I'm oversimplifying it but that's how I understand it." And of course your understanding is correct and the Jews lived peacefully with their Arab neighbours for centuries. Then came ww2 and the guilt which Europe felt, but Russia lost 25 million people to Hitler’s appalling gang, so why did UK roll over and sign a large part of Palestine over to these thugs and allow them to imprison 75 thousand of the native people I can’t imagine. | |||
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"I'm not sure who originated this observation, but ... If Hamas and Hezbollah laid down their weapons there would be peace between Israel and its neighbours. If Israel laid down its weapons it would be immediately attacked by Arab/Muslim armies, who would kill as many Jews as possible." There may be a tiny thread of truth in what you say, but that would have been dependent on the Arab’s acceptance of being 2nd class citizens in an apartheid state with everything that that entailed. Certainly not tolerable in the modern world. | |||
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"I'm loving some of the completely biased "facts" on this thread lol 🤣🤣. Some people are very confused between opinion, facts and what one conveniently leaves out 🥱🥱. The Arab/Israel conflict is far from simple but one thing is certain is that Netanyahu is a warmongering arse. Not a technical expression but true." A very apt observation, he and Stumpy should both in jail and that looks more likely each day. | |||
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"are you saying Netanyahu is an arse therefore the Jews deserve all they get?" Where did you dream that one up? I never mentioned the Jews my objection is with the Zionist’s. There is an enormous difference. | |||
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" so why did UK roll over and sign a large part of Palestine over to these thugs and allow them to imprison 75 thousand of the native people I can’t imagine." What are you on about shirty? The British didn’t sign anything over to the Jews as they had nothing to sign over. Britain were mandated by the League of Nations to administer the ‘region’ of Palestine. (Palestine has never been a country) When that mandate run out in 1948, the Jews declared a Jewish state, Israel, having lived in that region for thousands of years. The Palestinians have rejected many proposals that would have given them land and it’s simply because they don’t want Israel to even exist. | |||
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" so why did UK roll over and sign a large part of Palestine over to these thugs and allow them to imprison 75 thousand of the native people I can’t imagine. What are you on about shirty? The British didn’t sign anything over to the Jews as they had nothing to sign over. Britain were mandated by the League of Nations to administer the ‘region’ of Palestine. (Palestine has never been a country) When that mandate run out in 1948, the Jews declared a Jewish state, Israel, having lived in that region for thousands of years. The Palestinians have rejected many proposals that would have given them land and it’s simply because they don’t want Israel to even exist." Please educate yourself before you engage have you ever heard of the Balfour declaration of 1917 promising a Jewish state in Palestine | |||
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"claiming to be anti-Zionist is just another excuse for antisemitic rhetoric " That’s fine, you can’t see any difference in being a Jew and being a Zionist, I am sorry that you so ignorant but it’s not surprising. | |||
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"I'm not sure who originated this observation, but ... If Hamas and Hezbollah laid down their weapons there would be peace between Israel and its neighbours. If Israel laid down its weapons it would be immediately attacked by Arab/Muslim armies, who would kill as many Jews as possible. There may be a tiny thread of truth in what you say, but that would have been dependent on the Arab’s acceptance of being 2nd class citizens in an apartheid state with everything that that entailed. Certainly not tolerable in the modern world." Well said | |||
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" Please educate yourself before you engage have you ever heard of the Balfour declaration of 1917 promising a Jewish state in Palestine" Not you again! 😮 The key point you cannot comprehend is that there was no Palestinian state in the first place to promise a Jewish state within it. The Balfour Agreement clearly states this. As stated earlier, Palestine has never been a state, it’s a geographical term first coined by the Romans as Syria-Palestine (or Greater Syria). Before that, “Syria-Palestine” was Judea, before that Canaan. And Jews have lived in that region for thousands of years. The Romans renamed Judea to humiliate & subjugate the Jews. | |||
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" Please educate yourself before you engage have you ever heard of the Balfour declaration of 1917 promising a Jewish state in Palestine Not you again! 😮 The key point you cannot comprehend is that there was no Palestinian state in the first place to promise a Jewish state within it. The Balfour Agreement clearly states this. As stated earlier, Palestine has never been a state, it’s a geographical term first coined by the Romans as Syria-Palestine (or Greater Syria). Before that, “Syria-Palestine” was Judea, before that Canaan. And Jews have lived in that region for thousands of years. The Romans renamed Judea to humiliate & subjugate the Jews. " Exactly correct . | |||
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" Please educate yourself before you engage have you ever heard of the Balfour declaration of 1917 promising a Jewish state in Palestine Not you again! 😮 The key point you cannot comprehend is that there was no Palestinian state in the first place to promise a Jewish state within it. The Balfour Agreement clearly states this. As stated earlier, Palestine has never been a state, it’s a geographical term first coined by the Romans as Syria-Palestine (or Greater Syria). Before that, “Syria-Palestine” was Judea, before that Canaan. And Jews have lived in that region for thousands of years. The Romans renamed Judea to humiliate & subjugate the Jews. Do not divert away from your statement that Britain didn't sign away anything the Balfour declaration promised a Jewish state fact please educate yourself " | |||
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""lived peacefully with" Interesting interpretation of the status of Jews under the Ottoman Empire and the Caliphates. "  | |||
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" Anti-Zionism is a virulent form of antisemitism. Antisemitic tropes in media result in violence against Jews worldwide. Anti-Zionism denies Jews their right to self-defense. Anti-Zionism denies the historical connection of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel. Anti-Zionism and its demonization of Jews leads to violence. Anti-semitism is cloaked in critiques of Israeli government and her supporters, claiming they don’t have any issue with Jews; rather, their problem is with Zionists, a catch-all for anyone who supports the Jewish state. The vast majority of the global Jewish community are Zionists. Open and respectful debate are essential ingredients in fostering progress for all. Therefore, when discussing sensitive issues with colliding narratives, it is crucial to remove hate and misinformation from the conversation. "When people condemn Zionists - they mean Jews. You're talking anti-semitism.” Martin Luther King" That is your opinion, I utterly despise Zionist’s but I have nothing against the Jewish people and very much support the thousands of good Jewish people who are revolted by Netanyahu and his murdering gang. That may be difficult for you to understand, you just need to try harder. | |||
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" Anti-Zionism is a virulent form of antisemitism. Antisemitic tropes in media result in violence against Jews worldwide. Anti-Zionism denies Jews their right to self-defense. Anti-Zionism denies the historical connection of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel. Anti-Zionism and its demonization of Jews leads to violence. Anti-semitism is cloaked in critiques of Israeli government and her supporters, claiming they don’t have any issue with Jews; rather, their problem is with Zionists, a catch-all for anyone who supports the Jewish state. The vast majority of the global Jewish community are Zionists. Open and respectful debate are essential ingredients in fostering progress for all. Therefore, when discussing sensitive issues with colliding narratives, it is crucial to remove hate and misinformation from the conversation. "When people condemn Zionists - they mean Jews. You're talking anti-semitism.” Martin Luther King" If Zionism is antisemitic, then millions of Jews are antisemitic against themselves. That’s absurd. The Jews that I know and are against the Israeli apartheid regime are some of the kindest people I know. | |||
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" Anti-Zionism is a virulent form of antisemitism. Antisemitic tropes in media result in violence against Jews worldwide. Anti-Zionism denies Jews their right to self-defense. Anti-Zionism denies the historical connection of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel. Anti-Zionism and its demonization of Jews leads to violence. Anti-semitism is cloaked in critiques of Israeli government and her supporters, claiming they don’t have any issue with Jews; rather, their problem is with Zionists, a catch-all for anyone who supports the Jewish state. The vast majority of the global Jewish community are Zionists. Open and respectful debate are essential ingredients in fostering progress for all. Therefore, when discussing sensitive issues with colliding narratives, it is crucial to remove hate and misinformation from the conversation. "When people condemn Zionists - they mean Jews. You're talking anti-semitism.” Martin Luther King That is your opinion, I utterly despise Zionist’s but I have nothing against the Jewish people and very much support the thousands of good Jewish people who are revolted by Netanyahu and his murdering gang. That may be difficult for you to understand, you just need to try harder." If you bothered to read it was the opinion of Martin Luther King. | |||
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" Anti-Zionism is a virulent form of antisemitism. Antisemitic tropes in media result in violence against Jews worldwide. Anti-Zionism denies Jews their right to self-defense. Anti-Zionism denies the historical connection of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel. Anti-Zionism and its demonization of Jews leads to violence. Anti-semitism is cloaked in critiques of Israeli government and her supporters, claiming they don’t have any issue with Jews; rather, their problem is with Zionists, a catch-all for anyone who supports the Jewish state. The vast majority of the global Jewish community are Zionists. Open and respectful debate are essential ingredients in fostering progress for all. Therefore, when discussing sensitive issues with colliding narratives, it is crucial to remove hate and misinformation from the conversation. "When people condemn Zionists - they mean Jews. You're talking anti-semitism.” Martin Luther King If Zionism is antisemitic, then millions of Jews are antisemitic against themselves. That’s absurd. The Jews that I know and are against the Israeli apartheid regime are some of the kindest people I know. " Very well said 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 | |||
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" Anti-Zionism is a virulent form of antisemitism. Antisemitic tropes in media result in violence against Jews worldwide. Anti-Zionism denies Jews their right to self-defense. Anti-Zionism denies the historical connection of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel. Anti-Zionism and its demonization of Jews leads to violence. Anti-semitism is cloaked in critiques of Israeli government and her supporters, claiming they don’t have any issue with Jews; rather, their problem is with Zionists, a catch-all for anyone who supports the Jewish state. The vast majority of the global Jewish community are Zionists. Open and respectful debate are essential ingredients in fostering progress for all. Therefore, when discussing sensitive issues with colliding narratives, it is crucial to remove hate and misinformation from the conversation. "When people condemn Zionists - they mean Jews. You're talking anti-semitism.” Martin Luther King That is your opinion, I utterly despise Zionist’s but I have nothing against the Jewish people and very much support the thousands of good Jewish people who are revolted by Netanyahu and his murdering gang. That may be difficult for you to understand, you just need to try harder. If you bothered to read it was the opinion of Martin Luther King. " So what you said was someone else’s opinion, I don’t care who said it it is wrong. | |||
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" Anti-Zionism is a virulent form of antisemitism. Antisemitic tropes in media result in violence against Jews worldwide. Anti-Zionism denies Jews their right to self-defense. Anti-Zionism denies the historical connection of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel. Anti-Zionism and its demonization of Jews leads to violence. Anti-semitism is cloaked in critiques of Israeli government and her supporters, claiming they don’t have any issue with Jews; rather, their problem is with Zionists, a catch-all for anyone who supports the Jewish state. The vast majority of the global Jewish community are Zionists. Open and respectful debate are essential ingredients in fostering progress for all. Therefore, when discussing sensitive issues with colliding narratives, it is crucial to remove hate and misinformation from the conversation. "When people condemn Zionists - they mean Jews. You're talking anti-semitism.” Martin Luther King That is your opinion, I utterly despise Zionist’s but I have nothing against the Jewish people and very much support the thousands of good Jewish people who are revolted by Netanyahu and his murdering gang. That may be difficult for you to understand, you just need to try harder. If you bothered to read it was the opinion of Martin Luther King. So what you said was someone else’s opinion, I don’t care who said it it is wrong." No FiFi solve for x. | |||
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" Anti-Zionism is a virulent form of antisemitism. Antisemitic tropes in media result in violence against Jews worldwide. Anti-Zionism denies Jews their right to self-defense. Anti-Zionism denies the historical connection of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel. Anti-Zionism and its demonization of Jews leads to violence. Anti-semitism is cloaked in critiques of Israeli government and her supporters, claiming they don’t have any issue with Jews; rather, their problem is with Zionists, a catch-all for anyone who supports the Jewish state. The vast majority of the global Jewish community are Zionists. Open and respectful debate are essential ingredients in fostering progress for all. Therefore, when discussing sensitive issues with colliding narratives, it is crucial to remove hate and misinformation from the conversation. "When people condemn Zionists - they mean Jews. You're talking anti-semitism.” Martin Luther King That is your opinion, I utterly despise Zionist’s but I have nothing against the Jewish people and very much support the thousands of good Jewish people who are revolted by Netanyahu and his murdering gang. That may be difficult for you to understand, you just need to try harder. If you bothered to read it was the opinion of Martin Luther King. So what you said was someone else’s opinion, I don’t care who said it it is wrong." In your opinion. | |||
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" Anti-Zionism is a virulent form of antisemitism. Antisemitic tropes in media result in violence against Jews worldwide. Anti-Zionism denies Jews their right to self-defense. Anti-Zionism denies the historical connection of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel. Anti-Zionism and its demonization of Jews leads to violence. Anti-semitism is cloaked in critiques of Israeli government and her supporters, claiming they don’t have any issue with Jews; rather, their problem is with Zionists, a catch-all for anyone who supports the Jewish state. The vast majority of the global Jewish community are Zionists. Open and respectful debate are essential ingredients in fostering progress for all. Therefore, when discussing sensitive issues with colliding narratives, it is crucial to remove hate and misinformation from the conversation. "When people condemn Zionists - they mean Jews. You're talking anti-semitism.” Martin Luther King That is your opinion, I utterly despise Zionist’s but I have nothing against the Jewish people and very much support the thousands of good Jewish people who are revolted by Netanyahu and his murdering gang. That may be difficult for you to understand, you just need to try harder. If you bothered to read it was the opinion of Martin Luther King. So what you said was someone else’s opinion, I don’t care who said it it is wrong. No FiFi solve for x." | |||
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" Anti-Zionism is a virulent form of antisemitism. Antisemitic tropes in media result in violence against Jews worldwide. Anti-Zionism denies Jews their right to self-defense. Anti-Zionism denies the historical connection of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel. Anti-Zionism and its demonization of Jews leads to violence. Anti-semitism is cloaked in critiques of Israeli government and her supporters, claiming they don’t have any issue with Jews; rather, their problem is with Zionists, a catch-all for anyone who supports the Jewish state. The vast majority of the global Jewish community are Zionists. Open and respectful debate are essential ingredients in fostering progress for all. Therefore, when discussing sensitive issues with colliding narratives, it is crucial to remove hate and misinformation from the conversation. "When people condemn Zionists - they mean Jews. You're talking anti-semitism.” Martin Luther King That is your opinion, I utterly despise Zionist’s but I have nothing against the Jewish people and very much support the thousands of good Jewish people who are revolted by Netanyahu and his murdering gang. That may be difficult for you to understand, you just need to try harder. If you bothered to read it was the opinion of Martin Luther King. So what you said was someone else’s opinion, I don’t care who said it it is wrong. In your opinion. " Not in my opinion, it is factually wrong. Google these terms if that’s too difficult for you. | |||
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"So ive just been told that "my ignorance of history is staggering" by someone clearly ignorant of history as they ignore historical fact. For those unaware, in 1948 israel declared independance from the arabs that refused to accept them as equals. FIVE arab armies declared war against the brand new israeli state with the aim of 'removing' the jews entirely from the land. Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and Egypt along with saudi anassed 30,000 troops and their war machine against a country with no army beyond some basic trained troops with only 1 gun for every 3 soldiers. Despite the disadvantage israel won the war which is a major and constant source of embarassment for the arabs. The fact they lost every war since is even more embarassing and a source of great humiliation and resentment for the arabs. I would post links but im not getting banned for breaking the rules so I urge everyone to research it for yourself. Then ask yourself why the arabs wanted to genocide israel before the ink had even dried on their declaration of independence? You are told israel are hated because of war crimes, that before israel was created jews and muslims lived in harmony. This is total fiction. The arabs hate israel because they are jews. I will end with this quote - "This will be a war of extermination and momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Tartar massacre or the Crusader wars". Abdul Rahman Hassan Azzam, the first Secretary-General of the Arab League 1947. " The Arab-Israeli conflict is highly complex, with multiple perspectives. It's telling that the Arab League's rejection of Israel's declaration of independence was followed by an attempt to remove the new state, contributing to ongoing tensions. Historical context is crucial for understanding the conflict. | |||
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"I'm not sure who originated this observation, but ... If Hamas and Hezbollah laid down their weapons there would be peace between Israel and its neighbours. If Israel laid down its weapons it would be immediately attacked by Arab/Muslim armies, who would kill as many Jews as possible. There may be a tiny thread of truth in what you say, but that would have been dependent on the Arab’s acceptance of being 2nd class citizens in an apartheid state with everything that that entailed. Certainly not tolerable in the modern world." Nearly 2 million muslims live in israel. There is a muslim supreme judge, muslim idf soldiers (muslims in israel don't have mandatory service, unlike israelis so they chose to join), muslims in government, owning businesses etc. Conversely, jews in muslim countries have usually been subjugated, oppressed and even killed. They are forced to pay a humiliation tax called the jizya and to live under harsh rules and restrictions. Muslims were the first to make jews wear a star of david (just like the nazis did) to identify them as second class citizens so they could be treated accordingly and be monitored to be following their rules. Anyone who doubts this can simply google 'the pact of umar' for a full explaination and also quran 9:29 Surah At-Tawbah for Allah's instruction to fight non believers until they submit and pay jizya. | |||
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"It is unfortunate that it's essentially existential for both sides and it's come to where Israel has leveraged the American Christian Right (verging on Christo-Fascism with the avowed desire to have a theocracy just as narrow-minded as Iran's) in order to pursue their goal of wiping Iran out, just as Iran has been pursuing the same in reverse. The sad thing is that Jews coexisted peacefully in Muslim countries for a long time before the 20th century. Places like Samarkand and Bukhara had thriving and populous Jewish quarters. It seems to have been the state of Israel being parachuted into existence by a guilty Europe post WWII and the Nakba that polarised Arab opinion. Maybe I'm oversimplifying it but that's how I understand it. And of course your understanding is correct and the Jews lived peacefully with their Arab neighbours for centuries. Then came ww2 and the guilt which Europe felt, but Russia lost 25 million people to Hitler’s appalling gang, so why did UK roll over and sign a large part of Palestine over to these thugs and allow them to imprison 75 thousand of the native people I can’t imagine." The uk didnt sign anything over to israel. The un did after 30 years of the arabs refusing every option. | |||
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"Israel was also never a state, but we know that historically jews lived there at one point in history, after they conquered the ancient canaanites who were the actual natives. A people can exist without a state, just like Kurds today, like Roma people, or like Jews before ‘48. 1. Palestinians carry ancient Canaanite dna, so most of them also lived in the region for many generations. 2. Judaism is both a religion and a people. 3. If I convert to Judaism, I will get more rights in Israel than a Palestinian whose ancestors lived there for generations (one of my coworker who is originally from the West Bank, said that she has to take a 2-3 hr detour for a 15 mins journey, because Palestinians have many restrictions there) - this is widely documented. How is this fair?? 4. Russian is spoken by 20% of Israelis, because a great percentage of them are white Europeans converted to Judaism, hence the high rate of skin cancer in white people settled in the Middle East. The decades of crimes against Palestinians aren’t justified. Palestinian attack on Oct 7th isnt justified either. But with all that, Israel isn’t a peaceful nation. And FYI, for religious reasons I was a big fan of Israel and wanted to convert to Judaism before. We had many Israeli songs playing in the background when I was a kiddo. A person who values peace, harmony and cooperation between nations would not defend Israel. " You are right that israel wasn't a state, it was a kingdom. The kingdom of israel approx 1200bc until 587bc and then divided into the northern kingdom of israel and southern kingdom of judah which lasted another 200 and 350 years respectively. Many palestinians are actually relatively recent immigrants from surrounding arab countries. Also, many muslims are actualy of jewish descent due to 1400 years of colonisation/invasion and conversion. The west bank is a palestinian area governed by the palestinian authority. They are not israeli citizens so travel into israel is restricted, mainly due to the large amount of palestinians that have tried to kill jews. Did you know that if a palestinian sucesfully kills a jew his family will recieve a regular payment from the palestinian authority. Its called the 'palestinian martyrs fund' or 'pay for slay'. | |||
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"are you saying Netanyahu is an arse therefore the Jews deserve all they get?" Please show me where I even indicated that ! No thought not and thank you for illustrating my point exactly. | |||
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" Anti-Zionism is a virulent form of antisemitism. Antisemitic tropes in media result in violence against Jews worldwide. Anti-Zionism denies Jews their right to self-defense. Anti-Zionism denies the historical connection of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel. Anti-Zionism and its demonization of Jews leads to violence. Anti-semitism is cloaked in critiques of Israeli government and her supporters, claiming they don’t have any issue with Jews; rather, their problem is with Zionists, a catch-all for anyone who supports the Jewish state. The vast majority of the global Jewish community are Zionists. Open and respectful debate are essential ingredients in fostering progress for all. Therefore, when discussing sensitive issues with colliding narratives, it is crucial to remove hate and misinformation from the conversation. "When people condemn Zionists - they mean Jews. You're talking anti-semitism.” Martin Luther King That is your opinion, I utterly despise Zionist’s but I have nothing against the Jewish people and very much support the thousands of good Jewish people who are revolted by Netanyahu and his murdering gang. That may be difficult for you to understand, you just need to try harder." Zionism is a fundamental part of judaism. Zion means israel and jews pray towards israel 3 times a day. Its mentioned in prayer, ritual and tradition for mileneia, since the destruction of the second temple. Saying you have nothing against jews but hate zionists is like saying you love christians, but only the ones who don't read the bible or go to church. | |||
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"So ive just been told that "my ignorance of history is staggering" by someone clearly ignorant of history as they ignore historical fact. For those unaware, in 1948 israel declared independance from the arabs that refused to accept them as equals. FIVE arab armies declared war against the brand new israeli state with the aim of 'removing' the jews entirely from the land. Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and Egypt along with saudi anassed 30,000 troops and their war machine against a country with no army beyond some basic trained troops with only 1 gun for every 3 soldiers. Despite the disadvantage israel won the war which is a major and constant source of embarassment for the arabs. The fact they lost every war since is even more embarassing and a source of great humiliation and resentment for the arabs. I would post links but im not getting banned for breaking the rules so I urge everyone to research it for yourself. Then ask yourself why the arabs wanted to genocide israel before the ink had even dried on their declaration of independence? You are told israel are hated because of war crimes, that before israel was created jews and muslims lived in harmony. This is total fiction. The arabs hate israel because they are jews. I will end with this quote - "This will be a war of extermination and momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Tartar massacre or the Crusader wars". Abdul Rahman Hassan Azzam, the first Secretary-General of the Arab League 1947. The Arab-Israeli conflict is highly complex, with multiple perspectives. It's telling that the Arab League's rejection of Israel's declaration of independence was followed by an attempt to remove the new state, contributing to ongoing tensions. Historical context is crucial for understanding the conflict. " The arab league rejected every proposal over the 30 year british mandate of palestine. In 1947 The UN partition plan ended the british mandate and enabled the declaration of independence. | |||
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"All I know is that while people argue the rights n wrongs, who did what to someone else ordinary men women and children are dying Them that think they know the history and then present their interpretation always appear to land on one or the other side of the fence. This leads me to think that all parties are all as bad as each other , but yet again the ordinary man bears the brunt financially and of course with their lives. There are only ever 2 groups of winners and that's the people instigating the whole thing and the manufacturers/sellers of the weapons. What a sad state of affairs we find ourselves in ,never learning from history and only ever listening to them that shout the loudest and of course, tell the biggest lies ." Some things are not open to interpretation. My original post, for example. 5 arab armies attacked israel and vowed to genocide them before the ink was barely dry on the declaration of independence. Historical fact. Conversly, that declaration of independance pleaded for the jews and arabs to live together as equals. Read it for yourself. | |||
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"Arabs dont hate jews. Some Arabs hate zionists, and it's not just Arabs who do, as large numbers of zionists tend to be extremists using religion as cover for ethnic cleansing, land theft, hatred, xenophobia and self-importannce. Oddly, most zionists are atheists. Imposing them on the Middle east was possibly the most stupid decision the UN ever made. Israel is unlikely to know true peace until it accepts Arabs as equals, which is unlikely to happen. Scratch the surface, go live in Israel for a bit and you'll see who the real terrorists are. " 1400 years worth of pogroms disagrees with you. The terrorists are the ones that send their children as su1c1de bombers and their government who literaly pays families if their child becomes a 'martyr'. (Palestinian martyr fund. Look it up) Jews are no more imposed on the levant than the arab muslims who colonised it themselves. As for accepting arabs as equals, there is an arab muslim supreme court judge, nearly 2 million arabs choose to live in israel and they will tell you they have equal rights, the muslims actually have more rights when it comes to accessing temple mount. | |||
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"Arabs dont hate jews. Some Arabs hate zionists, and it's not just Arabs who do, as large numbers of zionists tend to be extremists using religion as cover for ethnic cleansing, land theft, hatred, xenophobia and self-importannce. Oddly, most zionists are atheists. Imposing them on the Middle east was possibly the most stupid decision the UN ever made. Israel is unlikely to know true peace until it accepts Arabs as equals, which is unlikely to happen. Scratch the surface, go live in Israel for a bit and you'll see who the real terrorists are. 1400 years worth of pogroms disagrees with you. The terrorists are the ones that send their children as su1c1de bombers and their government who literaly pays families if their child becomes a 'martyr'. (Palestinian martyr fund. Look it up) Jews are no more imposed on the levant than the arab muslims who colonised it themselves. As for accepting arabs as equals, there is an arab muslim supreme court judge, nearly 2 million arabs choose to live in israel and they will tell you they have equal rights, the muslims actually have more rights when it comes to accessing temple mount. " Have you ever lived in Israel? I have. I dont know any Arab Iraelis who would say they have equal rights- because, in law, they don't. Thats a fact of Israeli law and practice. An Arab Israeli on the Israeli Supreme Court (just 1 of 15 yet Arabs are 20+% of the population) is the equivalent of a Democrat judge on todays USA SC - impotent. Pogroms happened elsewhere and are nothing to do with what happens in the region today, unless you want to draw an equivalent to the pogroms, restrictions and victimisation levelled on Arab Israelis. Why don't these Arabs leave? Why should they? It is their home, until a zionists comes along and steals it with the help of the military or knocks it down and they become victim of your "equal rights". | |||
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"Have you ever lived in Israel? I have. I dont know any Arab Iraelis who would say they have equal rights- because, in law, they don't. Thats a fact of Israeli law and practice. An Arab Israeli on the Israeli Supreme Court (just 1 of 15 yet Arabs are 20+% of the population) is the equivalent of a Democrat judge on today’s USA SC - impotent. Pogroms happened elsewhere and are nothing to do with what happens in the region today, unless you want to draw an equivalent to the pogroms, restrictions and victimisation levelled on Arab Israelis. Why don't these Arabs leave? Why should they? It is their home, until a zionists comes along and steals it with the help of the military or knocks it down and they become victim of your "equal rights". " Great answer. | |||
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"I'm loving some of the completely biased "facts" on this thread lol 🤣🤣. Some people are very confused between opinion, facts and what one conveniently leaves out 🥱🥱. The Arab/Israel conflict is far from simple but one thing is certain is that Netanyahu is a warmongering arse. Not a technical expression but true. A very apt observation, he and Stumpy should both in jail and that looks more likely each day." We can but live in hope. | |||
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"If you use Zionist instead of Jew same as saying jihadi bomber instead of Muslim - you’re part of the problem. Jew and Muslim are quite sufficient terms. Using any other term for them makes you the cunt. Not them. " ...also all Jews are pianists,and all musliare jihadi bombers...is that what you're saying..? | |||
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"Nope. Clearly I’m not I’m saying just use the terms Jew and Muslim. It’s direct, inoffensive and suitsble for the conversation. That’s what’s being said?" ...not all Jews are zionists, and not all Muslims are jihadi bombers...that's four different classes of people...not two | |||
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"Nope. Clearly I’m not I’m saying just use the terms Jew and Muslim. It’s direct, inoffensive and suitsble for the conversation. That’s what’s being said?...not all Jews are zionists, and not all Muslims are jihadi bombers...that's four different classes of people...not two " And yet all of those individuals you listed can be un - offensively categorised the same by just the 2 terms. Viola. | |||
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"Nope. Clearly I’m not I’m saying just use the terms Jew and Muslim. It’s direct, inoffensive and suitsble for the conversation. That’s what’s being said?...not all Jews are zionists, and not all Muslims are jihadi bombers...that's four different classes of people...not two And yet all of those individuals you listed can be un - offensively categorised the same by just the 2 terms. Viola. " ...but they're 4 different groups? | |||
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"Nope. Clearly I’m not I’m saying just use the terms Jew and Muslim. It’s direct, inoffensive and suitsble for the conversation. That’s what’s being said?...not all Jews are zionists, and not all Muslims are jihadi bombers...that's four different classes of people...not two And yet all of those individuals you listed can be un - offensively categorised the same by just the 2 terms. Viola. ...but they're 4 different groups?" And yet my response still applies. | |||
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"As for temple mount. It doesn't exist. It was destroyed by non-Arabs and a mosque was built in its place, so of course Muslims are entitled to go there as its a Muslim holy site. It is in East Jerusalem, Palestine, overseen by Jordan as part of the UN conventions and has special designation. Jews are restricted by Israeli laws agreen by the UN, nothing to do with the Arabs." You say temple mount doesnt exist and expect to be taken seriously? Temple mount exists. It is the 37 acre site where the dome of the rock and al aqsa mosque stands and where the first and second tenple stood. Temple mount is the single most important site in judaism. Third most holy site in islam. Despite this, jews agreed to it being controlled by the islamic waqf administration to achieve peace as a gesture to show israel is not a threat to the islamic section. Once again making concessions for the sake of peace. For it to then get misrepresented as "temple mount doesnt exist' just shows the level of misinformation being thrown around that israel are up against. | |||
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"Nope. Clearly I’m not I’m saying just use the terms Jew and Muslim. It’s direct, inoffensive and suitsble for the conversation. That’s what’s being said?...not all Jews are zionists, and not all Muslims are jihadi bombers...that's four different classes of people...not two And yet all of those individuals you listed can be un - offensively categorised the same by just the 2 terms. Viola. ...but they're 4 different groups? And yet my response still applies. " ....I give up...  | |||
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"If you use Zionist instead of Jew same as saying jihadi bomber instead of Muslim - you’re part of the problem. Jew and Muslim are quite sufficient terms. Using any other term for them makes you the cunt. Not them. " So far off the mark you're not even in the same galaxy. This is fundamental knowledge that i really shouldn't have to expalain. Jew is a religion, Zionism a poitical movement which has hijacked Judaism to further it's fascist agenda. Not all Zionists are Jews, not all Jews are Zionists. Many condemn the state of Israel in it's current form and the atrocities it has carried out in order to achieve it. I trust that is clear enough for you. | |||
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"Arabs dont hate jews. Some Arabs hate zionists, and it's not just Arabs who do, as large numbers of zionists tend to be extremists using religion as cover for ethnic cleansing, land theft, hatred, xenophobia and self-importannce. Oddly, most zionists are atheists. Imposing them on the Middle east was possibly the most stupid decision the UN ever made. Israel is unlikely to know true peace until it accepts Arabs as equals, which is unlikely to happen. Scratch the surface, go live in Israel for a bit and you'll see who the real terrorists are. 1400 years worth of pogroms disagrees with you. The terrorists are the ones that send their children as su1c1de bombers and their government who literaly pays families if their child becomes a 'martyr'. (Palestinian martyr fund. Look it up) Jews are no more imposed on the levant than the arab muslims who colonised it themselves. As for accepting arabs as equals, there is an arab muslim supreme court judge, nearly 2 million arabs choose to live in israel and they will tell you they have equal rights, the muslims actually have more rights when it comes to accessing temple mount. Have you ever lived in Israel? I have. I dont know any Arab Iraelis who would say they have equal rights- because, in law, they don't. Thats a fact of Israeli law and practice. An Arab Israeli on the Israeli Supreme Court (just 1 of 15 yet Arabs are 20+% of the population) is the equivalent of a Democrat judge on todays USA SC - impotent. Pogroms happened elsewhere and are nothing to do with what happens in the region today, unless you want to draw an equivalent to the pogroms, restrictions and victimisation levelled on Arab Israelis. Why don't these Arabs leave? Why should they? It is their home, until a zionists comes along and steals it with the help of the military or knocks it down and they become victim of your "equal rights". " I seriously doubt you have lived in israel if you say that temple mount doesnt exist. And i doubt you know any arab israelis. I also didnt say arab israelis should leave. There are no settlers in israel. You are confusing the west bank and you are showing a not unexpected level of ignorance. | |||
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"I raise you the Nabka “ rolls fucking eyes”" It's Nakba. | |||
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"This from Wikipedia: Although the Ottomans did not treat Jews differently from other minorities in the country, the policies seemed to align well with Jewish traditions, which allowed communities to flourish. The Jewish people were allowed to establish their own autonomous communities, which included their own schools and courts." The ottomans were more tolerant than other muslim rulers, this doesnt mean jews were treated well. Also from your wikipedia - "While autonomous, Jews were considered second-class citizens, subject to specific restrictions regarding dress, riding horses, or testimony in court against Muslims, although enforcement varied" | |||
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"I would also point to Heinrich Graetz's (a proto-Zionist) magnum opus 'History of the Jews' published in 1853 (in Germany ironically) which saw the author rewriting and manipulating the words of the Old Testament to fit the Zionist agenda. This and similar subsequent works by other authors quickly became the Zionist's handbook and the backbone of Jewish history as we know it today. I would suggest that the OP expand his reading beyond the wealth of propaganda issued by the Zionist state if he wishes to avoid accusations of ignorance." I suggest you learn that zionism isn't sepearate to judaism. Its not some later movement or idea, it us a fundamental part of judaism. Nothing to say on the topic of this thread? The war of independance and five arab armies attempting to genocide the jews? You know, the historical fact you implied didn't happen and you said that i was staggeringly ignorant for stating.... | |||
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"Nope. Clearly I’m not I’m saying just use the terms Jew and Muslim. It’s direct, inoffensive and suitsble for the conversation. That’s what’s being said?...not all Jews are zionists, and not all Muslims are jihadi bombers...that's four different classes of people...not two And yet all of those individuals you listed can be un - offensively categorised the same by just the 2 terms. Viola. ...but they're 4 different groups? And yet my response still applies. ....I give up... "Then maybe don’t start | |||
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"This from the writings of the cleric/historian Bishop Sebeos circa 760AD (not a direct quote): The Jews saw the coming Muslim hoard as saviours, joining the ranks of their armies and calling them Ishmaelites and in doing so granting them equal status in the eyes of Yahweh." From the quran. 9:29 "Fight those who do not believe in Allah and the Last Day, nor comply with what Allah and His Messenger have forbidden, nor embrace the religion of truth from among those who were given the Scripture,(1) until they pay the tax,(2) willingly submitting, fully humbled." | |||
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"I would also point to Heinrich Graetz's (a proto-Zionist) magnum opus 'History of the Jews' published in 1853 (in Germany ironically) which saw the author rewriting and manipulating the words of the Old Testament to fit the Zionist agenda. This and similar subsequent works by other authors quickly became the Zionist's handbook and the backbone of Jewish history as we know it today. I would suggest that the OP expand his reading beyond the wealth of propaganda issued by the Zionist state if he wishes to avoid accusations of ignorance. I suggest you learn that zionism isn't sepearate to judaism. Its not some later movement or idea, it us a fundamental part of judaism. Nothing to say on the topic of this thread? The war of independance and five arab armies attempting to genocide the jews? You know, the historical fact you implied didn't happen and you said that i was staggeringly ignorant for stating...." It's entirely separate. Zionism (a fascist political movement) was invented in 1853 and has since hijacked Judaism to further it's agenda. | |||
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"I raise you the Nabka “ rolls fucking eyes”" The nakba where arabs leaders instructed arabs to leave so they cold exterminate the jews saying they will be able to return in two weeks to claim ALL of the land. Then they lost the war even though they sent five armies to fight? | |||
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"I would also point to Heinrich Graetz's (a proto-Zionist) magnum opus 'History of the Jews' published in 1853 (in Germany ironically) which saw the author rewriting and manipulating the words of the Old Testament to fit the Zionist agenda. This and similar subsequent works by other authors quickly became the Zionist's handbook and the backbone of Jewish history as we know it today. I would suggest that the OP expand his reading beyond the wealth of propaganda issued by the Zionist state if he wishes to avoid accusations of ignorance. I suggest you learn that zionism isn't sepearate to judaism. Its not some later movement or idea, it us a fundamental part of judaism. Nothing to say on the topic of this thread? The war of independance and five arab armies attempting to genocide the jews? You know, the historical fact you implied didn't happen and you said that i was staggeringly ignorant for stating.... It's entirely separate. Zionism (a fascist political movement) was invented in 1853 and has since hijacked Judaism to further it's agenda." As for the war of indepence what do you expect when a bunch of predominantly eastern Europeans rock up on the shores of Palestine and forcibly evict the resident population from their land and homes? Do you really expect such actions to not be met with resistance? Imagine if they showed up here, would we not fight? Just look at the amount of fuss we're making about a few immigrant boats. | |||
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"I would also point to Heinrich Graetz's (a proto-Zionist) magnum opus 'History of the Jews' published in 1853 (in Germany ironically) which saw the author rewriting and manipulating the words of the Old Testament to fit the Zionist agenda. This and similar subsequent works by other authors quickly became the Zionist's handbook and the backbone of Jewish history as we know it today. I would suggest that the OP expand his reading beyond the wealth of propaganda issued by the Zionist state if he wishes to avoid accusations of ignorance. I suggest you learn that zionism isn't sepearate to judaism. Its not some later movement or idea, it us a fundamental part of judaism. Nothing to say on the topic of this thread? The war of independance and five arab armies attempting to genocide the jews? You know, the historical fact you implied didn't happen and you said that i was staggeringly ignorant for stating.... It's entirely separate. Zionism (a fascist political movement) was invented in 1853 and has since hijacked Judaism to further it's agenda." It wasnt invented, zion is a fundamnetal part of judaism. It is also told, and confirmed in the quran. Quran 5:20 - 5:21 "And remember when Moses said to his people, “O my people! Remember Allah’s favours upon you when He raised prophets from among you, made you sovereign,(1) and gave you what He had never given anyone in the world.(2) O my people! Enter the Holy Land which Allah has destined for you to enter. And do not turn back or else you will become losers." | |||
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"Arabs dont hate jews. Some Arabs hate zionists, and it's not just Arabs who do, as large numbers of zionists tend to be extremists using religion as cover for ethnic cleansing, land theft, hatred, xenophobia and self-importannce. Oddly, most zionists are atheists. Imposing them on the Middle east was possibly the most stupid decision the UN ever made. Israel is unlikely to know true peace until it accepts Arabs as equals, which is unlikely to happen. Scratch the surface, go live in Israel for a bit and you'll see who the real terrorists are. 1400 years worth of pogroms disagrees with you. The terrorists are the ones that send their children as su1c1de bombers and their government who literaly pays families if their child becomes a 'martyr'. (Palestinian martyr fund. Look it up) Jews are no more imposed on the levant than the arab muslims who colonised it themselves. As for accepting arabs as equals, there is an arab muslim supreme court judge, nearly 2 million arabs choose to live in israel and they will tell you they have equal rights, the muslims actually have more rights when it comes to accessing temple mount. Have you ever lived in Israel? I have. I dont know any Arab Iraelis who would say they have equal rights- because, in law, they don't. Thats a fact of Israeli law and practice. An Arab Israeli on the Israeli Supreme Court (just 1 of 15 yet Arabs are 20+% of the population) is the equivalent of a Democrat judge on todays USA SC - impotent. Pogroms happened elsewhere and are nothing to do with what happens in the region today, unless you want to draw an equivalent to the pogroms, restrictions and victimisation levelled on Arab Israelis. Why don't these Arabs leave? Why should they? It is their home, until a zionists comes along and steals it with the help of the military or knocks it down and they become victim of your "equal rights". I seriously doubt you have lived in israel if you say that temple mount doesnt exist. And i doubt you know any arab israelis. I also didnt say arab israelis should leave. There are no settlers in israel. You are confusing the west bank and you are showing a not unexpected level of ignorance." Oh bless you, trying to have me doubting where I've lived and who I know. Temple Mount is real in your imagination and in history books and the lips of those who would like to see it restored. Reality is that since the 7th century it is Al-aqsa and Dome of The Rock. Things exist until they dont exist. Hanging Gardens of Babylon for example. | |||
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"I would also point to Heinrich Graetz's (a proto-Zionist) magnum opus 'History of the Jews' published in 1853 (in Germany ironically) which saw the author rewriting and manipulating the words of the Old Testament to fit the Zionist agenda. This and similar subsequent works by other authors quickly became the Zionist's handbook and the backbone of Jewish history as we know it today. I would suggest that the OP expand his reading beyond the wealth of propaganda issued by the Zionist state if he wishes to avoid accusations of ignorance. I suggest you learn that zionism isn't sepearate to judaism. Its not some later movement or idea, it us a fundamental part of judaism. Nothing to say on the topic of this thread? The war of independance and five arab armies attempting to genocide the jews? You know, the historical fact you implied didn't happen and you said that i was staggeringly ignorant for stating.... It's entirely separate. Zionism (a fascist political movement) was invented in 1853 and has since hijacked Judaism to further it's agenda. As for the war of indepence what do you expect when a bunch of predominantly eastern Europeans rock up on the shores of Palestine and forcibly evict the resident population from their land and homes? Do you really expect such actions to not be met with resistance? Imagine if they showed up here, would we not fight? Just look at the amount of fuss we're making about a few immigrant boats. " Jews didnt 'rock up and forcibly evict' anyone from their homes Prior to 1967 jews bought every single square foot of land they owned. In 1967 there was another war, again started by the arabs and again they lost, and lost land. Much of that land was returned by israel under the land for peace deals. One of those deals was made with egypt and still stands and is honoured by israel to this day. | |||
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"Israel was also never a state, but we know that historically jews lived there at one point in history, after they conquered the ancient canaanites who were the actual natives. A people can exist without a state, just like Kurds today, like Roma people, or like Jews before ‘48. 1. Palestinians carry ancient Canaanite dna, so most of them also lived in the region for many generations. 2. Judaism is both a religion and a people. 3. If I convert to Judaism, I will get more rights in Israel than a Palestinian whose ancestors lived there for generations (one of my coworker who is originally from the West Bank, said that she has to take a 2-3 hr detour for a 15 mins journey, because Palestinians have many restrictions there) - this is widely documented. How is this fair?? 4. Russian is spoken by 20% of Israelis, because a great percentage of them are white Europeans converted to Judaism, hence the high rate of skin cancer in white people settled in the Middle East. The decades of crimes against Palestinians aren’t justified. Palestinian attack on Oct 7th isnt justified either. But with all that, Israel isn’t a peaceful nation. And FYI, for religious reasons I was a big fan of Israel and wanted to convert to Judaism before. We had many Israeli songs playing in the background when I was a kiddo. A person who values peace, harmony and cooperation between nations would not defend Israel. " Throw Isotope U-235 into the mix, and being in the possession of religious fanatics vowed to destroy it's neighbours, is a recipe and reason for the current conflict! The middle east is a can of worms only ever made worst by outsiders meddling! | |||
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"Arabs dont hate jews. Some Arabs hate zionists, and it's not just Arabs who do, as large numbers of zionists tend to be extremists using religion as cover for ethnic cleansing, land theft, hatred, xenophobia and self-importannce. Oddly, most zionists are atheists. Imposing them on the Middle east was possibly the most stupid decision the UN ever made. Israel is unlikely to know true peace until it accepts Arabs as equals, which is unlikely to happen. Scratch the surface, go live in Israel for a bit and you'll see who the real terrorists are. 1400 years worth of pogroms disagrees with you. The terrorists are the ones that send their children as su1c1de bombers and their government who literaly pays families if their child becomes a 'martyr'. (Palestinian martyr fund. Look it up) Jews are no more imposed on the levant than the arab muslims who colonised it themselves. As for accepting arabs as equals, there is an arab muslim supreme court judge, nearly 2 million arabs choose to live in israel and they will tell you they have equal rights, the muslims actually have more rights when it comes to accessing temple mount. Have you ever lived in Israel? I have. I dont know any Arab Iraelis who would say they have equal rights- because, in law, they don't. Thats a fact of Israeli law and practice. An Arab Israeli on the Israeli Supreme Court (just 1 of 15 yet Arabs are 20+% of the population) is the equivalent of a Democrat judge on todays USA SC - impotent. Pogroms happened elsewhere and are nothing to do with what happens in the region today, unless you want to draw an equivalent to the pogroms, restrictions and victimisation levelled on Arab Israelis. Why don't these Arabs leave? Why should they? It is their home, until a zionists comes along and steals it with the help of the military or knocks it down and they become victim of your "equal rights". I seriously doubt you have lived in israel if you say that temple mount doesnt exist. And i doubt you know any arab israelis. I also didnt say arab israelis should leave. There are no settlers in israel. You are confusing the west bank and you are showing a not unexpected level of ignorance. Oh bless you, trying to have me doubting where I've lived and who I know. Temple Mount is real in your imagination and in history books and the lips of those who would like to see it restored. Reality is that since the 7th century it is Al-aqsa and Dome of The Rock. Things exist until they dont exist. Hanging Gardens of Babylon for example. " The temple no longer exists. Temple mount does. Its 37 acres, kinda hard to miss.. | |||
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"I would also point to Heinrich Graetz's (a proto-Zionist) magnum opus 'History of the Jews' published in 1853 (in Germany ironically) which saw the author rewriting and manipulating the words of the Old Testament to fit the Zionist agenda. This and similar subsequent works by other authors quickly became the Zionist's handbook and the backbone of Jewish history as we know it today. I would suggest that the OP expand his reading beyond the wealth of propaganda issued by the Zionist state if he wishes to avoid accusations of ignorance. I suggest you learn that zionism isn't sepearate to judaism. Its not some later movement or idea, it us a fundamental part of judaism. Nothing to say on the topic of this thread? The war of independance and five arab armies attempting to genocide the jews? You know, the historical fact you implied didn't happen and you said that i was staggeringly ignorant for stating.... It's entirely separate. Zionism (a fascist political movement) was invented in 1853 and has since hijacked Judaism to further it's agenda. It wasnt invented, zion is a fundamnetal part of judaism. It is also told, and confirmed in the quran. Quran 5:20 - 5:21 "And remember when Moses said to his people, “O my people! Remember Allah’s favours upon you when He raised prophets from among you, made you sovereign,(1) and gave you what He had never given anyone in the world.(2) O my people! Enter the Holy Land which Allah has destined for you to enter. And do not turn back or else you will become losers." " Zion is a place, Zionism is a political movement. You can't equate the two. | |||
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"Arabs dont hate jews. Some Arabs hate zionists, and it's not just Arabs who do, as large numbers of zionists tend to be extremists using religion as cover for ethnic cleansing, land theft, hatred, xenophobia and self-importannce. Oddly, most zionists are atheists. Imposing them on the Middle east was possibly the most stupid decision the UN ever made. Israel is unlikely to know true peace until it accepts Arabs as equals, which is unlikely to happen. Scratch the surface, go live in Israel for a bit and you'll see who the real terrorists are. 1400 years worth of pogroms disagrees with you. The terrorists are the ones that send their children as su1c1de bombers and their government who literaly pays families if their child becomes a 'martyr'. (Palestinian martyr fund. Look it up) Jews are no more imposed on the levant than the arab muslims who colonised it themselves. As for accepting arabs as equals, there is an arab muslim supreme court judge, nearly 2 million arabs choose to live in israel and they will tell you they have equal rights, the muslims actually have more rights when it comes to accessing temple mount. Have you ever lived in Israel? I have. I dont know any Arab Iraelis who would say they have equal rights- because, in law, they don't. Thats a fact of Israeli law and practice. An Arab Israeli on the Israeli Supreme Court (just 1 of 15 yet Arabs are 20+% of the population) is the equivalent of a Democrat judge on todays USA SC - impotent. Pogroms happened elsewhere and are nothing to do with what happens in the region today, unless you want to draw an equivalent to the pogroms, restrictions and victimisation levelled on Arab Israelis. Why don't these Arabs leave? Why should they? It is their home, until a zionists comes along and steals it with the help of the military or knocks it down and they become victim of your "equal rights". I seriously doubt you have lived in israel if you say that temple mount doesnt exist. And i doubt you know any arab israelis. I also didnt say arab israelis should leave. There are no settlers in israel. You are confusing the west bank and you are showing a not unexpected level of ignorance. Oh bless you, trying to have me doubting where I've lived and who I know. Temple Mount is real in your imagination and in history books and the lips of those who would like to see it restored. Reality is that since the 7th century it is Al-aqsa and Dome of The Rock. Things exist until they dont exist. Hanging Gardens of Babylon for example. The temple no longer exists. Temple mount does. Its 37 acres, kinda hard to miss.." Aka haram al-Sharif. Like I said, things only exist until they don't. | |||
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"I would also point to Heinrich Graetz's (a proto-Zionist) magnum opus 'History of the Jews' published in 1853 (in Germany ironically) which saw the author rewriting and manipulating the words of the Old Testament to fit the Zionist agenda. This and similar subsequent works by other authors quickly became the Zionist's handbook and the backbone of Jewish history as we know it today. I would suggest that the OP expand his reading beyond the wealth of propaganda issued by the Zionist state if he wishes to avoid accusations of ignorance. I suggest you learn that zionism isn't sepearate to judaism. Its not some later movement or idea, it us a fundamental part of judaism. Nothing to say on the topic of this thread? The war of independance and five arab armies attempting to genocide the jews? You know, the historical fact you implied didn't happen and you said that i was staggeringly ignorant for stating.... It's entirely separate. Zionism (a fascist political movement) was invented in 1853 and has since hijacked Judaism to further it's agenda. It wasnt invented, zion is a fundamnetal part of judaism. It is also told, and confirmed in the quran. Quran 5:20 - 5:21 "And remember when Moses said to his people, “O my people! Remember Allah’s favours upon you when He raised prophets from among you, made you sovereign,(1) and gave you what He had never given anyone in the world.(2) O my people! Enter the Holy Land which Allah has destined for you to enter. And do not turn back or else you will become losers." Zion is a place, Zionism is a political movement. You can't equate the two." Zion is the jewish homeland, zionism is the belief in a jewish homeland. Both are religious beliefs. The latter can be a position held politicaly but it is still fundamentaly a religious belief and integral part of judaism. | |||
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"Arabs dont hate jews. Some Arabs hate zionists, and it's not just Arabs who do, as large numbers of zionists tend to be extremists using religion as cover for ethnic cleansing, land theft, hatred, xenophobia and self-importannce. Oddly, most zionists are atheists. Imposing them on the Middle east was possibly the most stupid decision the UN ever made. Israel is unlikely to know true peace until it accepts Arabs as equals, which is unlikely to happen. Scratch the surface, go live in Israel for a bit and you'll see who the real terrorists are. 1400 years worth of pogroms disagrees with you. The terrorists are the ones that send their children as su1c1de bombers and their government who literaly pays families if their child becomes a 'martyr'. (Palestinian martyr fund. Look it up) Jews are no more imposed on the levant than the arab muslims who colonised it themselves. As for accepting arabs as equals, there is an arab muslim supreme court judge, nearly 2 million arabs choose to live in israel and they will tell you they have equal rights, the muslims actually have more rights when it comes to accessing temple mount. Have you ever lived in Israel? I have. I dont know any Arab Iraelis who would say they have equal rights- because, in law, they don't. Thats a fact of Israeli law and practice. An Arab Israeli on the Israeli Supreme Court (just 1 of 15 yet Arabs are 20+% of the population) is the equivalent of a Democrat judge on todays USA SC - impotent. Pogroms happened elsewhere and are nothing to do with what happens in the region today, unless you want to draw an equivalent to the pogroms, restrictions and victimisation levelled on Arab Israelis. Why don't these Arabs leave? Why should they? It is their home, until a zionists comes along and steals it with the help of the military or knocks it down and they become victim of your "equal rights". I seriously doubt you have lived in israel if you say that temple mount doesnt exist. And i doubt you know any arab israelis. I also didnt say arab israelis should leave. There are no settlers in israel. You are confusing the west bank and you are showing a not unexpected level of ignorance. Oh bless you, trying to have me doubting where I've lived and who I know. Temple Mount is real in your imagination and in history books and the lips of those who would like to see it restored. Reality is that since the 7th century it is Al-aqsa and Dome of The Rock. Things exist until they dont exist. Hanging Gardens of Babylon for example. The temple no longer exists. Temple mount does. Its 37 acres, kinda hard to miss.. Aka haram al-Sharif. Like I said, things only exist until they don't. " Yeah, you can literaly go and stand on temple mount. It exists, calling it by its arabic name does not change that. | |||
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"Arabs dont hate jews. Some Arabs hate zionists, and it's not just Arabs who do, as large numbers of zionists tend to be extremists using religion as cover for ethnic cleansing, land theft, hatred, xenophobia and self-importannce. Oddly, most zionists are atheists. Imposing them on the Middle east was possibly the most stupid decision the UN ever made. Israel is unlikely to know true peace until it accepts Arabs as equals, which is unlikely to happen. Scratch the surface, go live in Israel for a bit and you'll see who the real terrorists are. 1400 years worth of pogroms disagrees with you. The terrorists are the ones that send their children as su1c1de bombers and their government who literaly pays families if their child becomes a 'martyr'. (Palestinian martyr fund. Look it up) Jews are no more imposed on the levant than the arab muslims who colonised it themselves. As for accepting arabs as equals, there is an arab muslim supreme court judge, nearly 2 million arabs choose to live in israel and they will tell you they have equal rights, the muslims actually have more rights when it comes to accessing temple mount. Have you ever lived in Israel? I have. I dont know any Arab Iraelis who would say they have equal rights- because, in law, they don't. Thats a fact of Israeli law and practice. An Arab Israeli on the Israeli Supreme Court (just 1 of 15 yet Arabs are 20+% of the population) is the equivalent of a Democrat judge on todays USA SC - impotent. Pogroms happened elsewhere and are nothing to do with what happens in the region today, unless you want to draw an equivalent to the pogroms, restrictions and victimisation levelled on Arab Israelis. Why don't these Arabs leave? Why should they? It is their home, until a zionists comes along and steals it with the help of the military or knocks it down and they become victim of your "equal rights". I seriously doubt you have lived in israel if you say that temple mount doesnt exist. And i doubt you know any arab israelis. I also didnt say arab israelis should leave. There are no settlers in israel. You are confusing the west bank and you are showing a not unexpected level of ignorance. Oh bless you, trying to have me doubting where I've lived and who I know. Temple Mount is real in your imagination and in history books and the lips of those who would like to see it restored. Reality is that since the 7th century it is Al-aqsa and Dome of The Rock. Things exist until they dont exist. Hanging Gardens of Babylon for example. The temple no longer exists. Temple mount does. Its 37 acres, kinda hard to miss.. Aka haram al-Sharif. Like I said, things only exist until they don't. Yeah, you can literaly go and stand on temple mount. It exists, calling it by its arabic name does not change that. " It does for the billions of people who don't call it your given name. | |||
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"I would also point to Heinrich Graetz's (a proto-Zionist) magnum opus 'History of the Jews' published in 1853 (in Germany ironically) which saw the author rewriting and manipulating the words of the Old Testament to fit the Zionist agenda. This and similar subsequent works by other authors quickly became the Zionist's handbook and the backbone of Jewish history as we know it today. I would suggest that the OP expand his reading beyond the wealth of propaganda issued by the Zionist state if he wishes to avoid accusations of ignorance. I suggest you learn that zionism isn't sepearate to judaism. Its not some later movement or idea, it us a fundamental part of judaism. Nothing to say on the topic of this thread? The war of independance and five arab armies attempting to genocide the jews? You know, the historical fact you implied didn't happen and you said that i was staggeringly ignorant for stating.... It's entirely separate. Zionism (a fascist political movement) was invented in 1853 and has since hijacked Judaism to further it's agenda. It wasnt invented, zion is a fundamnetal part of judaism. It is also told, and confirmed in the quran. Quran 5:20 - 5:21 "And remember when Moses said to his people, “O my people! Remember Allah’s favours upon you when He raised prophets from among you, made you sovereign,(1) and gave you what He had never given anyone in the world.(2) O my people! Enter the Holy Land which Allah has destined for you to enter. And do not turn back or else you will become losers." Zion is a place, Zionism is a political movement. You can't equate the two. Zion is the jewish homeland, zionism is the belief in a jewish homeland. Both are religious beliefs. The latter can be a position held politicaly but it is still fundamentaly a religious belief and integral part of judaism." Zionism was officially founded in 1897. | |||
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"Arabs dont hate jews. Some Arabs hate zionists, and it's not just Arabs who do, as large numbers of zionists tend to be extremists using religion as cover for ethnic cleansing, land theft, hatred, xenophobia and self-importannce. Oddly, most zionists are atheists. Imposing them on the Middle east was possibly the most stupid decision the UN ever made. Israel is unlikely to know true peace until it accepts Arabs as equals, which is unlikely to happen. Scratch the surface, go live in Israel for a bit and you'll see who the real terrorists are. 1400 years worth of pogroms disagrees with you. The terrorists are the ones that send their children as su1c1de bombers and their government who literaly pays families if their child becomes a 'martyr'. (Palestinian martyr fund. Look it up) Jews are no more imposed on the levant than the arab muslims who colonised it themselves. As for accepting arabs as equals, there is an arab muslim supreme court judge, nearly 2 million arabs choose to live in israel and they will tell you they have equal rights, the muslims actually have more rights when it comes to accessing temple mount. Have you ever lived in Israel? I have. I dont know any Arab Iraelis who would say they have equal rights- because, in law, they don't. Thats a fact of Israeli law and practice. An Arab Israeli on the Israeli Supreme Court (just 1 of 15 yet Arabs are 20+% of the population) is the equivalent of a Democrat judge on todays USA SC - impotent. Pogroms happened elsewhere and are nothing to do with what happens in the region today, unless you want to draw an equivalent to the pogroms, restrictions and victimisation levelled on Arab Israelis. Why don't these Arabs leave? Why should they? It is their home, until a zionists comes along and steals it with the help of the military or knocks it down and they become victim of your "equal rights". I seriously doubt you have lived in israel if you say that temple mount doesnt exist. And i doubt you know any arab israelis. I also didnt say arab israelis should leave. There are no settlers in israel. You are confusing the west bank and you are showing a not unexpected level of ignorance. Oh bless you, trying to have me doubting where I've lived and who I know. Temple Mount is real in your imagination and in history books and the lips of those who would like to see it restored. Reality is that since the 7th century it is Al-aqsa and Dome of The Rock. Things exist until they dont exist. Hanging Gardens of Babylon for example. The temple no longer exists. Temple mount does. Its 37 acres, kinda hard to miss.. Aka haram al-Sharif. Like I said, things only exist until they don't. Yeah, you can literaly go and stand on temple mount. It exists, calling it by its arabic name does not change that. It does for the billions of people who don't call it your given name. " It doesn't. You can go and stand on temple mount and touch the western wall. Jews were killed in the 1929 hebron massacre for wanting to worship at it. Jews have prayed towards it 3 times a day for the last 2000 years. You even admit that its under special controls to allow both jews and muslims to access it due to its religious significance for both. | |||
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""lived peacefully with" Interesting interpretation of the status of Jews under the Ottoman Empire and the Caliphates. " Quite!! | |||
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"Nope. Clearly I’m not I’m saying just use the terms Jew and Muslim. It’s direct, inoffensive and suitsble for the conversation. That’s what’s being said?...not all Jews are zionists, and not all Muslims are jihadi bombers...that's four different classes of people...not two And yet all of those individuals you listed can be un - offensively categorised the same by just the 2 terms. Viola. ...but they're 4 different groups? And yet my response still applies. ....I give up...
Then maybe don’t start "....I meant... I refuse to argue with ignorant people | |||
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"I would also point to Heinrich Graetz's (a proto-Zionist) magnum opus 'History of the Jews' published in 1853 (in Germany ironically) which saw the author rewriting and manipulating the words of the Old Testament to fit the Zionist agenda. This and similar subsequent works by other authors quickly became the Zionist's handbook and the backbone of Jewish history as we know it today. I would suggest that the OP expand his reading beyond the wealth of propaganda issued by the Zionist state if he wishes to avoid accusations of ignorance. I suggest you learn that zionism isn't sepearate to judaism. Its not some later movement or idea, it us a fundamental part of judaism. Nothing to say on the topic of this thread? The war of independance and five arab armies attempting to genocide the jews? You know, the historical fact you implied didn't happen and you said that i was staggeringly ignorant for stating.... It's entirely separate. Zionism (a fascist political movement) was invented in 1853 and has since hijacked Judaism to further it's agenda. It wasnt invented, zion is a fundamnetal part of judaism. It is also told, and confirmed in the quran. Quran 5:20 - 5:21 "And remember when Moses said to his people, “O my people! Remember Allah’s favours upon you when He raised prophets from among you, made you sovereign,(1) and gave you what He had never given anyone in the world.(2) O my people! Enter the Holy Land which Allah has destined for you to enter. And do not turn back or else you will become losers." Zion is a place, Zionism is a political movement. You can't equate the two. Zion is the jewish homeland, zionism is the belief in a jewish homeland. Both are religious beliefs. The latter can be a position held politicaly but it is still fundamentaly a religious belief and integral part of judaism. Zionism was officially founded in 1897." Zionism has existed for millennia. It is in the torah and the prayer they recite 3 times a day. "Shema Yisrael (שְׁמַע יִשְׂרָאֵל) (“Hear, O Israel”)".... "..And you shall inscribe them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates - so that your days and the days of your children may be prolonged on the land which the Lord swore to your fathers to give to them for as long as the heavens are above the earth." | |||
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"It is unfortunate that it's essentially existential for both sides and it's come to where Israel has leveraged the American Christian Right (verging on Christo-Fascism with the avowed desire to have a theocracy just as narrow-minded as Iran's) in order to pursue their goal of wiping Iran out, just as Iran has been pursuing the same in reverse. The sad thing is that Jews coexisted peacefully in Muslim countries for a long time before the 20th century. Places like Samarkand and Bukhara had thriving and populous Jewish quarters. It seems to have been the state of Israel being parachuted into existence by a guilty Europe post WWII and the Nakba that polarised Arab opinion. Maybe I'm oversimplifying it but that's how I understand it. And of course your understanding is correct and the Jews lived peacefully with their Arab neighbours for centuries. Then came ww2 and the guilt which Europe felt, but Russia lost 25 million people to Hitler’s appalling gang, so why did UK roll over and sign a large part of Palestine over to these thugs and allow them to imprison 75 thousand of the native people I can’t imagine." Europe did not feel guilty. Britain fought the nazi oppression and won. | |||
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| Reply privately |
"Arabs dont hate jews. Some Arabs hate zionists, and it's not just Arabs who do, as large numbers of zionists tend to be extremists using religion as cover for ethnic cleansing, land theft, hatred, xenophobia and self-importannce. Oddly, most zionists are atheists. Imposing them on the Middle east was possibly the most stupid decision the UN ever made. Israel is unlikely to know true peace until it accepts Arabs as equals, which is unlikely to happen. Scratch the surface, go live in Israel for a bit and you'll see who the real terrorists are. 1400 years worth of pogroms disagrees with you. The terrorists are the ones that send their children as su1c1de bombers and their government who literaly pays families if their child becomes a 'martyr'. (Palestinian martyr fund. Look it up) Jews are no more imposed on the levant than the arab muslims who colonised it themselves. As for accepting arabs as equals, there is an arab muslim supreme court judge, nearly 2 million arabs choose to live in israel and they will tell you they have equal rights, the muslims actually have more rights when it comes to accessing temple mount. Have you ever lived in Israel? I have. I dont know any Arab Iraelis who would say they have equal rights- because, in law, they don't. Thats a fact of Israeli law and practice. An Arab Israeli on the Israeli Supreme Court (just 1 of 15 yet Arabs are 20+% of the population) is the equivalent of a Democrat judge on todays USA SC - impotent. Pogroms happened elsewhere and are nothing to do with what happens in the region today, unless you want to draw an equivalent to the pogroms, restrictions and victimisation levelled on Arab Israelis. Why don't these Arabs leave? Why should they? It is their home, until a zionists comes along and steals it with the help of the military or knocks it down and they become victim of your "equal rights". I seriously doubt you have lived in israel if you say that temple mount doesnt exist. And i doubt you know any arab israelis. I also didnt say arab israelis should leave. There are no settlers in israel. You are confusing the west bank and you are showing a not unexpected level of ignorance. Oh bless you, trying to have me doubting where I've lived and who I know. Temple Mount is real in your imagination and in history books and the lips of those who would like to see it restored. Reality is that since the 7th century it is Al-aqsa and Dome of The Rock. Things exist until they dont exist. Hanging Gardens of Babylon for example. The temple no longer exists. Temple mount does. Its 37 acres, kinda hard to miss.. Aka haram al-Sharif. Like I said, things only exist until they don't. Yeah, you can literaly go and stand on temple mount. It exists, calling it by its arabic name does not change that. It does for the billions of people who don't call it your given name. It doesn't. You can go and stand on temple mount and touch the western wall. Jews were killed in the 1929 hebron massacre for wanting to worship at it. Jews have prayed towards it 3 times a day for the last 2000 years. You even admit that its under special controls to allow both jews and muslims to access it due to its religious significance for both. " It does, because the long-destroyed temple, which Jews named a hill for, means nothing to them. I admitted to nothing that aligns with what you've said I admitted to, you're simply twisting words to suit your argument. Few Jews, and I know a lot of Jews, pray 3 times a day, and most only pray when in a synagogue, whichnis hardly ever. Those that do pray, in Israel, face the hill. Those abroad just face Jerusalem in the same way Muslims face Mecca, and those is Saudi face the kabala. As the hill is quite a small space within Jerusalem, chances are thier facing is off, but oh well nobody cares. | |||
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"It is unfortunate that it's essentially existential for both sides and it's come to where Israel has leveraged the American Christian Right (verging on Christo-Fascism with the avowed desire to have a theocracy just as narrow-minded as Iran's) in order to pursue their goal of wiping Iran out, just as Iran has been pursuing the same in reverse. The sad thing is that Jews coexisted peacefully in Muslim countries for a long time before the 20th century. Places like Samarkand and Bukhara had thriving and populous Jewish quarters. It seems to have been the state of Israel being parachuted into existence by a guilty Europe post WWII and the Nakba that polarised Arab opinion. Maybe I'm oversimplifying it but that's how I understand it. And of course your understanding is correct and the Jews lived peacefully with their Arab neighbours for centuries. Then came ww2 and the guilt which Europe felt, but Russia lost 25 million people to Hitler’s appalling gang, so why did UK roll over and sign a large part of Palestine over to these thugs and allow them to imprison 75 thousand of the native people I can’t imagine. Europe did not feel guilty. Britain fought the nazi oppression and won. " I have to disagree with on that, Britain and its allies did defeat the Nazi’s but how they had misstated the Jews did leave a sense of guilt whether justified or not. Sadly these Zionist scum who now rule Israel have replaced the Nazi tyrant to whom they owe their existence. | |||
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| Reply privately |
"I would also point to Heinrich Graetz's (a proto-Zionist) magnum opus 'History of the Jews' published in 1853 (in Germany ironically) which saw the author rewriting and manipulating the words of the Old Testament to fit the Zionist agenda. This and similar subsequent works by other authors quickly became the Zionist's handbook and the backbone of Jewish history as we know it today. I would suggest that the OP expand his reading beyond the wealth of propaganda issued by the Zionist state if he wishes to avoid accusations of ignorance. I suggest you learn that zionism isn't sepearate to judaism. Its not some later movement or idea, it us a fundamental part of judaism. Nothing to say on the topic of this thread? The war of independance and five arab armies attempting to genocide the jews? You know, the historical fact you implied didn't happen and you said that i was staggeringly ignorant for stating.... It's entirely separate. Zionism (a fascist political movement) was invented in 1853 and has since hijacked Judaism to further it's agenda. It wasnt invented, zion is a fundamnetal part of judaism. It is also told, and confirmed in the quran. Quran 5:20 - 5:21 "And remember when Moses said to his people, “O my people! Remember Allah’s favours upon you when He raised prophets from among you, made you sovereign,(1) and gave you what He had never given anyone in the world.(2) O my people! Enter the Holy Land which Allah has destined for you to enter. And do not turn back or else you will become losers." Zion is a place, Zionism is a political movement. You can't equate the two. Zion is the jewish homeland, zionism is the belief in a jewish homeland. Both are religious beliefs. The latter can be a position held politicaly but it is still fundamentaly a religious belief and integral part of judaism. Zionism was officially founded in 1897. Zionism has existed for millennia. It is in the torah and the prayer they recite 3 times a day. "Shema Yisrael (שְׁמַע יִשְׂרָאֵל) (“Hear, O Israel”)".... "..And you shall inscribe them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates - so that your days and the days of your children may be prolonged on the land which the Lord swore to your fathers to give to them for as long as the heavens are above the earth."" Are you aware that Zion was considered as the name for the newly invented nation but was rejected because the term Zionist already existed and meant something entirely different. Considered pejorative, quite rightly to be sneered at as all fascist ideologies should be sneered at. | |||
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"It is unfortunate that it's essentially existential for both sides and it's come to where Israel has leveraged the American Christian Right (verging on Christo-Fascism with the avowed desire to have a theocracy just as narrow-minded as Iran's) in order to pursue their goal of wiping Iran out, just as Iran has been pursuing the same in reverse. The sad thing is that Jews coexisted peacefully in Muslim countries for a long time before the 20th century. Places like Samarkand and Bukhara had thriving and populous Jewish quarters. It seems to have been the state of Israel being parachuted into existence by a guilty Europe post WWII and the Nakba that polarised Arab opinion. Maybe I'm oversimplifying it but that's how I understand it. And of course your understanding is correct and the Jews lived peacefully with their Arab neighbours for centuries. Then came ww2 and the guilt which Europe felt, but Russia lost 25 million people to Hitler’s appalling gang, so why did UK roll over and sign a large part of Palestine over to these thugs and allow them to imprison 75 thousand of the native people I can’t imagine. Europe did not feel guilty. Britain fought the nazi oppression and won. I have to disagree with on that, Britain and its allies did defeat the Nazi’s but how they had misstated the Jews did leave a sense of guilt whether justified or not. Sadly these Zionist scum who now rule Israel have replaced the Nazi tyrant to whom they owe their existence." I psychology 'the victim identifies with the aggressor'. | |||
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| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
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"Arabs dont hate jews. Some Arabs hate zionists, and it's not just Arabs who do, as large numbers of zionists tend to be extremists using religion as cover for ethnic cleansing, land theft, hatred, xenophobia and self-importannce. Oddly, most zionists are atheists. Imposing them on the Middle east was possibly the most stupid decision the UN ever made. Israel is unlikely to know true peace until it accepts Arabs as equals, which is unlikely to happen. Scratch the surface, go live in Israel for a bit and you'll see who the real terrorists are. 1400 years worth of pogroms disagrees with you. The terrorists are the ones that send their children as su1c1de bombers and their government who literaly pays families if their child becomes a 'martyr'. (Palestinian martyr fund. Look it up) Jews are no more imposed on the levant than the arab muslims who colonised it themselves. As for accepting arabs as equals, there is an arab muslim supreme court judge, nearly 2 million arabs choose to live in israel and they will tell you they have equal rights, the muslims actually have more rights when it comes to accessing temple mount. Have you ever lived in Israel? I have. I dont know any Arab Iraelis who would say they have equal rights- because, in law, they don't. Thats a fact of Israeli law and practice. An Arab Israeli on the Israeli Supreme Court (just 1 of 15 yet Arabs are 20+% of the population) is the equivalent of a Democrat judge on todays USA SC - impotent. Pogroms happened elsewhere and are nothing to do with what happens in the region today, unless you want to draw an equivalent to the pogroms, restrictions and victimisation levelled on Arab Israelis. Why don't these Arabs leave? Why should they? It is their home, until a zionists comes along and steals it with the help of the military or knocks it down and they become victim of your "equal rights". I seriously doubt you have lived in israel if you say that temple mount doesnt exist. And i doubt you know any arab israelis. I also didnt say arab israelis should leave. There are no settlers in israel. You are confusing the west bank and you are showing a not unexpected level of ignorance. Oh bless you, trying to have me doubting where I've lived and who I know. Temple Mount is real in your imagination and in history books and the lips of those who would like to see it restored. Reality is that since the 7th century it is Al-aqsa and Dome of The Rock. Things exist until they dont exist. Hanging Gardens of Babylon for example. The temple no longer exists. Temple mount does. Its 37 acres, kinda hard to miss.. Aka haram al-Sharif. Like I said, things only exist until they don't. Yeah, you can literaly go and stand on temple mount. It exists, calling it by its arabic name does not change that. It does for the billions of people who don't call it your given name. It doesn't. You can go and stand on temple mount and touch the western wall. Jews were killed in the 1929 hebron massacre for wanting to worship at it. Jews have prayed towards it 3 times a day for the last 2000 years. You even admit that its under special controls to allow both jews and muslims to access it due to its religious significance for both. It does, because the long-destroyed temple, which Jews named a hill for, means nothing to them. I admitted to nothing that aligns with what you've said I admitted to, you're simply twisting words to suit your argument. Few Jews, and I know a lot of Jews, pray 3 times a day, and most only pray when in a synagogue, whichnis hardly ever. Those that do pray, in Israel, face the hill. Those abroad just face Jerusalem in the same way Muslims face Mecca, and those is Saudi face the kabala. As the hill is quite a small space within Jerusalem, chances are thier facing is off, but oh well nobody cares." "The hill" is called temple mount and you have just confirmed its existence and religious significance. | |||
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"I'm very impressed by the sophisticated level of debate here. So will the Mossad be. Be assured, this thread is being read in Jerusalem. " Sometimes I think a lot of it's originating in Moscow | |||
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"I'm very impressed by the sophisticated level of debate here. So will the Mossad be. Be assured, this thread is being read in Jerusalem. " You're not wrong. Even the watch lists have watch lists. | |||
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"Arabs dont hate jews. Some Arabs hate zionists, and it's not just Arabs who do, as large numbers of zionists tend to be extremists using religion as cover for ethnic cleansing, land theft, hatred, xenophobia and self-importannce. Oddly, most zionists are atheists. Imposing them on the Middle east was possibly the most stupid decision the UN ever made. Israel is unlikely to know true peace until it accepts Arabs as equals, which is unlikely to happen. Scratch the surface, go live in Israel for a bit and you'll see who the real terrorists are. 1400 years worth of pogroms disagrees with you. The terrorists are the ones that send their children as su1c1de bombers and their government who literaly pays families if their child becomes a 'martyr'. (Palestinian martyr fund. Look it up) Jews are no more imposed on the levant than the arab muslims who colonised it themselves. As for accepting arabs as equals, there is an arab muslim supreme court judge, nearly 2 million arabs choose to live in israel and they will tell you they have equal rights, the muslims actually have more rights when it comes to accessing temple mount. Have you ever lived in Israel? I have. I dont know any Arab Iraelis who would say they have equal rights- because, in law, they don't. Thats a fact of Israeli law and practice. An Arab Israeli on the Israeli Supreme Court (just 1 of 15 yet Arabs are 20+% of the population) is the equivalent of a Democrat judge on todays USA SC - impotent. Pogroms happened elsewhere and are nothing to do with what happens in the region today, unless you want to draw an equivalent to the pogroms, restrictions and victimisation levelled on Arab Israelis. Why don't these Arabs leave? Why should they? It is their home, until a zionists comes along and steals it with the help of the military or knocks it down and they become victim of your "equal rights". I seriously doubt you have lived in israel if you say that temple mount doesnt exist. And i doubt you know any arab israelis. I also didnt say arab israelis should leave. There are no settlers in israel. You are confusing the west bank and you are showing a not unexpected level of ignorance. Oh bless you, trying to have me doubting where I've lived and who I know. Temple Mount is real in your imagination and in history books and the lips of those who would like to see it restored. Reality is that since the 7th century it is Al-aqsa and Dome of The Rock. Things exist until they dont exist. Hanging Gardens of Babylon for example. The temple no longer exists. Temple mount does. Its 37 acres, kinda hard to miss.. Aka haram al-Sharif. Like I said, things only exist until they don't. Yeah, you can literaly go and stand on temple mount. It exists, calling it by its arabic name does not change that. It does for the billions of people who don't call it your given name. It doesn't. You can go and stand on temple mount and touch the western wall. Jews were killed in the 1929 hebron massacre for wanting to worship at it. Jews have prayed towards it 3 times a day for the last 2000 years. You even admit that its under special controls to allow both jews and muslims to access it due to its religious significance for both. It does, because the long-destroyed temple, which Jews named a hill for, means nothing to them. I admitted to nothing that aligns with what you've said I admitted to, you're simply twisting words to suit your argument. Few Jews, and I know a lot of Jews, pray 3 times a day, and most only pray when in a synagogue, whichnis hardly ever. Those that do pray, in Israel, face the hill. Those abroad just face Jerusalem in the same way Muslims face Mecca, and those is Saudi face the kabala. As the hill is quite a small space within Jerusalem, chances are thier facing is off, but oh well nobody cares. "The hill" is called temple mount and you have just confirmed its existence and religious significance. " To you, and others like you, and not others who dont share uiur views. Surely the ultimate devotion for you is to make Aliyah. Go join the party kind of thing. | |||
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"I would also point to Heinrich Graetz's (a proto-Zionist) magnum opus 'History of the Jews' published in 1853 (in Germany ironically) which saw the author rewriting and manipulating the words of the Old Testament to fit the Zionist agenda. This and similar subsequent works by other authors quickly became the Zionist's handbook and the backbone of Jewish history as we know it today. I would suggest that the OP expand his reading beyond the wealth of propaganda issued by the Zionist state if he wishes to avoid accusations of ignorance. I suggest you learn that zionism isn't sepearate to judaism. Its not some later movement or idea, it us a fundamental part of judaism. Nothing to say on the topic of this thread? The war of independance and five arab armies attempting to genocide the jews? You know, the historical fact you implied didn't happen and you said that i was staggeringly ignorant for stating.... It's entirely separate. Zionism (a fascist political movement) was invented in 1853 and has since hijacked Judaism to further it's agenda. It wasnt invented, zion is a fundamnetal part of judaism. It is also told, and confirmed in the quran. Quran 5:20 - 5:21 "And remember when Moses said to his people, “O my people! Remember Allah’s favours upon you when He raised prophets from among you, made you sovereign,(1) and gave you what He had never given anyone in the world.(2) O my people! Enter the Holy Land which Allah has destined for you to enter. And do not turn back or else you will become losers." Zion is a place, Zionism is a political movement. You can't equate the two. Zion is the jewish homeland, zionism is the belief in a jewish homeland. Both are religious beliefs. The latter can be a position held politicaly but it is still fundamentaly a religious belief and integral part of judaism. Zionism was officially founded in 1897. Zionism has existed for millennia. It is in the torah and the prayer they recite 3 times a day. "Shema Yisrael (שְׁמַע יִשְׂרָאֵל) (“Hear, O Israel”)".... "..And you shall inscribe them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates - so that your days and the days of your children may be prolonged on the land which the Lord swore to your fathers to give to them for as long as the heavens are above the earth." Are you aware that Zion was considered as the name for the newly invented nation but was rejected because the term Zionist already existed and meant something entirely different. Considered pejorative, quite rightly to be sneered at as all fascist ideologies should be sneered at." Does that change the fact that zionism has existed for millennia and is an integral part of judaism? | |||
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"Arabs dont hate jews. Some Arabs hate zionists, and it's not just Arabs who do, as large numbers of zionists tend to be extremists using religion as cover for ethnic cleansing, land theft, hatred, xenophobia and self-importannce. Oddly, most zionists are atheists. Imposing them on the Middle east was possibly the most stupid decision the UN ever made. Israel is unlikely to know true peace until it accepts Arabs as equals, which is unlikely to happen. Scratch the surface, go live in Israel for a bit and you'll see who the real terrorists are. 1400 years worth of pogroms disagrees with you. The terrorists are the ones that send their children as su1c1de bombers and their government who literaly pays families if their child becomes a 'martyr'. (Palestinian martyr fund. Look it up) Jews are no more imposed on the levant than the arab muslims who colonised it themselves. As for accepting arabs as equals, there is an arab muslim supreme court judge, nearly 2 million arabs choose to live in israel and they will tell you they have equal rights, the muslims actually have more rights when it comes to accessing temple mount. Have you ever lived in Israel? I have. I dont know any Arab Iraelis who would say they have equal rights- because, in law, they don't. Thats a fact of Israeli law and practice. An Arab Israeli on the Israeli Supreme Court (just 1 of 15 yet Arabs are 20+% of the population) is the equivalent of a Democrat judge on todays USA SC - impotent. Pogroms happened elsewhere and are nothing to do with what happens in the region today, unless you want to draw an equivalent to the pogroms, restrictions and victimisation levelled on Arab Israelis. Why don't these Arabs leave? Why should they? It is their home, until a zionists comes along and steals it with the help of the military or knocks it down and they become victim of your "equal rights". I seriously doubt you have lived in israel if you say that temple mount doesnt exist. And i doubt you know any arab israelis. I also didnt say arab israelis should leave. There are no settlers in israel. You are confusing the west bank and you are showing a not unexpected level of ignorance. Oh bless you, trying to have me doubting where I've lived and who I know. Temple Mount is real in your imagination and in history books and the lips of those who would like to see it restored. Reality is that since the 7th century it is Al-aqsa and Dome of The Rock. Things exist until they dont exist. Hanging Gardens of Babylon for example. The temple no longer exists. Temple mount does. Its 37 acres, kinda hard to miss.. Aka haram al-Sharif. Like I said, things only exist until they don't. Yeah, you can literaly go and stand on temple mount. It exists, calling it by its arabic name does not change that. It does for the billions of people who don't call it your given name. It doesn't. You can go and stand on temple mount and touch the western wall. Jews were killed in the 1929 hebron massacre for wanting to worship at it. Jews have prayed towards it 3 times a day for the last 2000 years. You even admit that its under special controls to allow both jews and muslims to access it due to its religious significance for both. It does, because the long-destroyed temple, which Jews named a hill for, means nothing to them. I admitted to nothing that aligns with what you've said I admitted to, you're simply twisting words to suit your argument. Few Jews, and I know a lot of Jews, pray 3 times a day, and most only pray when in a synagogue, whichnis hardly ever. Those that do pray, in Israel, face the hill. Those abroad just face Jerusalem in the same way Muslims face Mecca, and those is Saudi face the kabala. As the hill is quite a small space within Jerusalem, chances are thier facing is off, but oh well nobody cares. "The hill" is called temple mount and you have just confirmed its existence and religious significance. To you, and others like you, and not others who dont share uiur views. Surely the ultimate devotion for you is to make Aliyah. Go join the party kind of thing." So you want to ignore that it physicaly exists, you can see it, touch it, stand on it, watch countless videos of it, find it on google maps and read thousands of reviews from people who have visited it? It doesnt stop existing because someone doesn't accept its significance. | |||
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"It is unfortunate that it's essentially existential for both sides and it's come to where Israel has leveraged the American Christian Right (verging on Christo-Fascism with the avowed desire to have a theocracy just as narrow-minded as Iran's) in order to pursue their goal of wiping Iran out, just as Iran has been pursuing the same in reverse. The sad thing is that Jews coexisted peacefully in Muslim countries for a long time before the 20th century. Places like Samarkand and Bukhara had thriving and populous Jewish quarters. It seems to have been the state of Israel being parachuted into existence by a guilty Europe post WWII and the Nakba that polarised Arab opinion. Maybe I'm oversimplifying it but that's how I understand it. And of course your understanding is correct and the Jews lived peacefully with their Arab neighbours for centuries. Then came ww2 and the guilt which Europe felt, but Russia lost 25 million people to Hitler’s appalling gang, so why did UK roll over and sign a large part of Palestine over to these thugs and allow them to imprison 75 thousand of the native people I can’t imagine. Europe did not feel guilty. Britain fought the nazi oppression and won. I have to disagree with on that, Britain and its allies did defeat the Nazi’s but how they had misstated the Jews did leave a sense of guilt whether justified or not. Sadly these Zionist scum who now rule Israel have replaced the Nazi tyrant to whom they owe their existence." Ironic that the palestinians, and the arabs actually aligned with hitler. The grand mufti of jerusalem, Amin al-Husseini visited hitler, begged for help killing the jews in mandatory palestine, collaborated with the nazis and was a recruiter for the SS. Mein kamph remains popular across the arab world. | |||
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"You are literally arguing over whether temple or a hill is called temple mount. I say it does not exist (a temple) you say it does (a hill) but you completely disregard that billions of others dont call it temple mount and have other words for exactly the same place. It was probably called "rocky grazing for sheep and goats" once too. This is how pathetic your argument is." You are arguing that temple mount doesn't exist. It clearly does. The temple's demolition is irrelevant. It is still the holiest site in judaism and it is still the mount the temple stood on. | |||
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"It is unfortunate that it's essentially existential for both sides and it's come to where Israel has leveraged the American Christian Right (verging on Christo-Fascism with the avowed desire to have a theocracy just as narrow-minded as Iran's) in order to pursue their goal of wiping Iran out, just as Iran has been pursuing the same in reverse. The sad thing is that Jews coexisted peacefully in Muslim countries for a long time before the 20th century. Places like Samarkand and Bukhara had thriving and populous Jewish quarters. It seems to have been the state of Israel being parachuted into existence by a guilty Europe post WWII and the Nakba that polarised Arab opinion. Maybe I'm oversimplifying it but that's how I understand it. And of course your understanding is correct and the Jews lived peacefully with their Arab neighbours for centuries. Then came ww2 and the guilt which Europe felt, but Russia lost 25 million people to Hitler’s appalling gang, so why did UK roll over and sign a large part of Palestine over to these thugs and allow them to imprison 75 thousand of the native people I can’t imagine. Europe did not feel guilty. Britain fought the nazi oppression and won. I have to disagree with on that, Britain and its allies did defeat the Nazi’s but how they had misstated the Jews did leave a sense of guilt whether justified or not. Sadly these Zionist scum who now rule Israel have replaced the Nazi tyrant to whom they owe their existence. Ironic that the palestinians, and the arabs actually aligned with hitler. The grand mufti of jerusalem, Amin al-Husseini visited hitler, begged for help killing the jews in mandatory palestine, collaborated with the nazis and was a recruiter for the SS. Mein kamph remains popular across the arab world. " Don't worry, Israelis still call holocaust survivors sabonim | |||
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"You are literally arguing over whether temple or a hill is called temple mount. I say it does not exist (a temple) you say it does (a hill) but you completely disregard that billions of others dont call it temple mount and have other words for exactly the same place. It was probably called "rocky grazing for sheep and goats" once too. This is how pathetic your argument is. You are arguing that temple mount doesn't exist. It clearly does. The temple's demolition is irrelevant. It is still the holiest site in judaism and it is still the mount the temple stood on. " Did Jesus ever tour there? | |||
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"Who cares about all this garbage dragged up from the bible or any other pile of nonsense. My concern is for the tens of thousands of helpless children without legs or arms, all visited on them by a gang of squatters who are mostly atheists and only interested in how much they can steal from the native inhabitants." Because if you dont understand the history and the religions you don't understand the situation. | |||
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"You are literally arguing over whether temple or a hill is called temple mount. I say it does not exist (a temple) you say it does (a hill) but you completely disregard that billions of others dont call it temple mount and have other words for exactly the same place. It was probably called "rocky grazing for sheep and goats" once too. This is how pathetic your argument is. You are arguing that temple mount doesn't exist. It clearly does. The temple's demolition is irrelevant. It is still the holiest site in judaism and it is still the mount the temple stood on. Did Jesus ever tour there?" He was a cleaner there aparrently | |||
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"Who cares about all this garbage dragged up from the bible or any other pile of nonsense. My concern is for the tens of thousands of helpless children without legs or arms, all visited on them by a gang of squatters who are mostly atheists and only interested in how much they can steal from the native inhabitants. Because if you dont understand the history and the religions you don't understand the situation. " I disagree with you nor I think would those children with no legs or arms. But if you can find solace in these “HOLLY” books which are just nonsense then I am sorry for you. | |||
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"Who cares about all this garbage dragged up from the bible or any other pile of nonsense. My concern is for the tens of thousands of helpless children without legs or arms, all visited on them by a gang of squatters who are mostly atheists and only interested in how much they can steal from the native inhabitants. Because if you dont understand the history and the religions you don't understand the situation. I disagree with you nor I think would those children with no legs or arms. But if you can find solace in these “HOLLY” books which are just nonsense then I am sorry for you." I'm an athiest. You really should stop making wild assumptions and jumping to conclusions as you clearly arent very good at it. It doesnt matter what you or i think about religion. Palestinians and jews believe it and it is the overarching factor behind the whole situation. Therefore you should have at least a basic knowledge about it and the history if you want to offer an opinion that can be taken seriously. | |||
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"Who cares about all this garbage dragged up from the bible or any other pile of nonsense. My concern is for the tens of thousands of helpless children without legs or arms, all visited on them by a gang of squatters who are mostly atheists and only interested in how much they can steal from the native inhabitants. Because if you dont understand the history and the religions you don't understand the situation. I disagree with you nor I think would those children with no legs or arms. But if you can find solace in these “HOLLY” books which are just nonsense then I am sorry for you. I'm an athiest. You really should stop making wild assumptions and jumping to conclusions as you clearly arent very good at it. It doesnt matter what you or i think about religion. Palestinians and jews believe it and it is the overarching factor behind the whole situation. Therefore you should have at least a basic knowledge about it and the history if you want to offer an opinion that can be taken seriously. " Its hard to take anyone seriously who's using bible, Koran and torah passages in their commentary. | |||
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"Who cares about all this garbage dragged up from the bible or any other pile of nonsense. My concern is for the tens of thousands of helpless children without legs or arms, all visited on them by a gang of squatters who are mostly atheists and only interested in how much they can steal from the native inhabitants. Because if you dont understand the history and the religions you don't understand the situation. I disagree with you nor I think would those children with no legs or arms. But if you can find solace in these “HOLLY” books which are just nonsense then I am sorry for you. I'm an athiest. You really should stop making wild assumptions and jumping to conclusions as you clearly arent very good at it. It doesnt matter what you or i think about religion. Palestinians and jews believe it and it is the overarching factor behind the whole situation. Therefore you should have at least a basic knowledge about it and the history if you want to offer an opinion that can be taken seriously. " Thank you for pointing out my intellectual inadequacies, but I did say “if you find solace” so I don’t see where I made any wild assumptions. It is my understanding that the Zionist’s are in fact mostly atheist which makes one wonder why they call anyone who dares to criticise their dreadful regime of anti semitism, but that’s not my problem. The Muslim’s may well be more deluded in that direction but once again it’s not my business. My basic argument remains the same, what gives these N European Zionist’s the right to murder and maim an entire nation of innocent people and to steal their land as they wish. | |||
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"Who cares about all this garbage dragged up from the bible or any other pile of nonsense. My concern is for the tens of thousands of helpless children without legs or arms, all visited on them by a gang of squatters who are mostly atheists and only interested in how much they can steal from the native inhabitants. Because if you dont understand the history and the religions you don't understand the situation. I disagree with you nor I think would those children with no legs or arms. But if you can find solace in these “HOLLY” books which are just nonsense then I am sorry for you. I'm an athiest. You really should stop making wild assumptions and jumping to conclusions as you clearly arent very good at it. It doesnt matter what you or i think about religion. Palestinians and jews believe it and it is the overarching factor behind the whole situation. Therefore you should have at least a basic knowledge about it and the history if you want to offer an opinion that can be taken seriously. Its hard to take anyone seriously who's using bible, Koran and torah passages in their commentary. " I couldn’t agree with you more 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 | |||
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"Who cares about all this garbage dragged up from the bible or any other pile of nonsense. My concern is for the tens of thousands of helpless children without legs or arms, all visited on them by a gang of squatters who are mostly atheists and only interested in how much they can steal from the native inhabitants. Because if you dont understand the history and the religions you don't understand the situation. I disagree with you nor I think would those children with no legs or arms. But if you can find solace in these “HOLLY” books which are just nonsense then I am sorry for you. I'm an athiest. You really should stop making wild assumptions and jumping to conclusions as you clearly arent very good at it. It doesnt matter what you or i think about religion. Palestinians and jews believe it and it is the overarching factor behind the whole situation. Therefore you should have at least a basic knowledge about it and the history if you want to offer an opinion that can be taken seriously. Thank you for pointing out my intellectual inadequacies, but I did say “if you find solace” so I don’t see where I made any wild assumptions. It is my understanding that the Zionist’s are in fact mostly atheist which makes one wonder why they call anyone who dares to criticise their dreadful regime of anti semitism, but that’s not my problem. The Muslim’s may well be more deluded in that direction but once again it’s not my business. My basic argument remains the same, what gives these N European Zionist’s the right to murder and maim an entire nation of innocent people and to steal their land as they wish." Your basic agument is false. You ignore that not all jews are european. There was already a jewish population in that land. There are more jews there who were forced to leave arab countries than arrived from the holocaust. They weren't stealing land, Jews bought land, the arabs tried to steal their land and genocide/murder the jews in the war of independance. (The actual topic of this thread which has been almost entirely ignored) If you want to blame someone for the dead and injured children, blame hamas for starting the war, using civillians as sheilds and child soldiers. Framing israel as evil doesnt work when you know the history, crying about the children doesnt work when when you say nothing about how palestinian children are literally taught to want to be a suicide bombers and families get paid if they are sucessful. It wasnt israel that massacered unarmed festival goers, invaded homes to slaughter families, and paraded dead, half naked young women through the streets for cheering crowds. Hamas declared war, threatened to repeat oct 7th over and over an wipe out every jew. Well, they got the war they ordered and its an unfortunate fact of war that innocent people are killed and injured in war. Israel have done everything possible to minimise those deaths. 75k have been killed in two years, more than half of those are hamas soldiers. That makes civillian death rates the lowest of any war. Hamas killed over 1000 in one day. Your narative completely falls apart under scrutiny. Israel vaccinated 600k gazan children in the middle of a war zone while hamas stole their food and dug up the water pipes to make rockets. | |||
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"Who cares about all this garbage dragged up from the bible or any other pile of nonsense. My concern is for the tens of thousands of helpless children without legs or arms, all visited on them by a gang of squatters who are mostly atheists and only interested in how much they can steal from the native inhabitants. Because if you dont understand the history and the religions you don't understand the situation. I disagree with you nor I think would those children with no legs or arms. But if you can find solace in these “HOLLY” books which are just nonsense then I am sorry for you. I'm an athiest. You really should stop making wild assumptions and jumping to conclusions as you clearly arent very good at it. It doesnt matter what you or i think about religion. Palestinians and jews believe it and it is the overarching factor behind the whole situation. Therefore you should have at least a basic knowledge about it and the history if you want to offer an opinion that can be taken seriously. Its hard to take anyone seriously who's using bible, Koran and torah passages in their commentary. " Ignorance is bliss, so they say.. | |||
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"Who cares about all this garbage dragged up from the bible or any other pile of nonsense. My concern is for the tens of thousands of helpless children without legs or arms, all visited on them by a gang of squatters who are mostly atheists and only interested in how much they can steal from the native inhabitants. Because if you dont understand the history and the religions you don't understand the situation. I disagree with you nor I think would those children with no legs or arms. But if you can find solace in these “HOLLY” books which are just nonsense then I am sorry for you. I'm an athiest. You really should stop making wild assumptions and jumping to conclusions as you clearly arent very good at it. It doesnt matter what you or i think about religion. Palestinians and jews believe it and it is the overarching factor behind the whole situation. Therefore you should have at least a basic knowledge about it and the history if you want to offer an opinion that can be taken seriously. Thank you for pointing out my intellectual inadequacies, but I did say “if you find solace” so I don’t see where I made any wild assumptions. It is my understanding that the Zionist’s are in fact mostly atheist which makes one wonder why they call anyone who dares to criticise their dreadful regime of anti semitism, but that’s not my problem. The Muslim’s may well be more deluded in that direction but once again it’s not my business. My basic argument remains the same, what gives these N European Zionist’s the right to murder and maim an entire nation of innocent people and to steal their land as they wish. Your basic agument is false. You ignore that not all jews are european. There was already a jewish population in that land. There are more jews there who were forced to leave arab countries than arrived from the holocaust. They weren't stealing land, Jews bought land, the arabs tried to steal their land and genocide/murder the jews in the war of independance. (The actual topic of this thread which has been almost entirely ignored) If you want to blame someone for the dead and injured children, blame hamas for starting the war, using civillians as sheilds and child soldiers. Framing israel as evil doesnt work when you know the history, crying about the children doesnt work when when you say nothing about how palestinian children are literally taught to want to be a suicide bombers and families get paid if they are sucessful. It wasnt israel that massacered unarmed festival goers, invaded homes to slaughter families, and paraded dead, half naked young women through the streets for cheering crowds. Hamas declared war, threatened to repeat oct 7th over and over an wipe out every jew. Well, they got the war they ordered and its an unfortunate fact of war that innocent people are killed and injured in war. Israel have done everything possible to minimise those deaths. 75k have been killed in two years, more than half of those are hamas soldiers. That makes civillian death rates the lowest of any war. Hamas killed over 1000 in one day. Your narative completely falls apart under scrutiny. Israel vaccinated 600k gazan children in the middle of a war zone while hamas stole their food and dug up the water pipes to make rockets. " Both sides are pure evil. Choosing to murder and hiding behind daft religions. Don't excuse them. | |||
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"Who cares about all this garbage dragged up from the bible or any other pile of nonsense. My concern is for the tens of thousands of helpless children without legs or arms, all visited on them by a gang of squatters who are mostly atheists and only interested in how much they can steal from the native inhabitants. Because if you dont understand the history and the religions you don't understand the situation. I disagree with you nor I think would those children with no legs or arms. But if you can find solace in these “HOLLY” books which are just nonsense then I am sorry for you. I'm an athiest. You really should stop making wild assumptions and jumping to conclusions as you clearly arent very good at it. It doesnt matter what you or i think about religion. Palestinians and jews believe it and it is the overarching factor behind the whole situation. Therefore you should have at least a basic knowledge about it and the history if you want to offer an opinion that can be taken seriously. Thank you for pointing out my intellectual inadequacies, but I did say “if you find solace” so I don’t see where I made any wild assumptions. It is my understanding that the Zionist’s are in fact mostly atheist which makes one wonder why they call anyone who dares to criticise their dreadful regime of anti semitism, but that’s not my problem. The Muslim’s may well be more deluded in that direction but once again it’s not my business. My basic argument remains the same, what gives these N European Zionist’s the right to murder and maim an entire nation of innocent people and to steal their land as they wish. Your basic agument is false. You ignore that not all jews are european. There was already a jewish population in that land. There are more jews there who were forced to leave arab countries than arrived from the holocaust. They weren't stealing land, Jews bought land, the arabs tried to steal their land and genocide/murder the jews in the war of independance. (The actual topic of this thread which has been almost entirely ignored) If you want to blame someone for the dead and injured children, blame hamas for starting the war, using civillians as sheilds and child soldiers. Framing israel as evil doesnt work when you know the history, crying about the children doesnt work when when you say nothing about how palestinian children are literally taught to want to be a suicide bombers and families get paid if they are sucessful. It wasnt israel that massacered unarmed festival goers, invaded homes to slaughter families, and paraded dead, half naked young women through the streets for cheering crowds. Hamas declared war, threatened to repeat oct 7th over and over an wipe out every jew. Well, they got the war they ordered and its an unfortunate fact of war that innocent people are killed and injured in war. Israel have done everything possible to minimise those deaths. 75k have been killed in two years, more than half of those are hamas soldiers. That makes civillian death rates the lowest of any war. Hamas killed over 1000 in one day. Your narative completely falls apart under scrutiny. Israel vaccinated 600k gazan children in the middle of a war zone while hamas stole their food and dug up the water pipes to make rockets. " Very well said | |||
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"It's a bit like trying to teach your dog algebra. " When I read all the facts & opinions, I feel like the dog being taught.. | |||
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"Who cares about all this garbage dragged up from the bible or any other pile of nonsense. My concern is for the tens of thousands of helpless children without legs or arms, all visited on them by a gang of squatters who are mostly atheists and only interested in how much they can steal from the native inhabitants. Because if you dont understand the history and the religions you don't understand the situation. I disagree with you nor I think would those children with no legs or arms. But if you can find solace in these “HOLLY” books which are just nonsense then I am sorry for you. I'm an athiest. You really should stop making wild assumptions and jumping to conclusions as you clearly arent very good at it. It doesnt matter what you or i think about religion. Palestinians and jews believe it and it is the overarching factor behind the whole situation. Therefore you should have at least a basic knowledge about it and the history if you want to offer an opinion that can be taken seriously. Thank you for pointing out my intellectual inadequacies, but I did say “if you find solace” so I don’t see where I made any wild assumptions. It is my understanding that the Zionist’s are in fact mostly atheist which makes one wonder why they call anyone who dares to criticise their dreadful regime of anti semitism, but that’s not my problem. The Muslim’s may well be more deluded in that direction but once again it’s not my business. My basic argument remains the same, what gives these N European Zionist’s the right to murder and maim an entire nation of innocent people and to steal their land as they wish. Your basic agument is false. You ignore that not all jews are european. There was already a jewish population in that land. There are more jews there who were forced to leave arab countries than arrived from the holocaust. They weren't stealing land, Jews bought land, the arabs tried to steal their land and genocide/murder the jews in the war of independance. (The actual topic of this thread which has been almost entirely ignored) If you want to blame someone for the dead and injured children, blame hamas for starting the war, using civillians as sheilds and child soldiers. Framing israel as evil doesnt work when you know the history, crying about the children doesnt work when when you say nothing about how palestinian children are literally taught to want to be a suicide bombers and families get paid if they are sucessful. It wasnt israel that massacered unarmed festival goers, invaded homes to slaughter families, and paraded dead, half naked young women through the streets for cheering crowds. Hamas declared war, threatened to repeat oct 7th over and over an wipe out every jew. Well, they got the war they ordered and its an unfortunate fact of war that innocent people are killed and injured in war. Israel have done everything possible to minimise those deaths. 75k have been killed in two years, more than half of those are hamas soldiers. That makes civillian death rates the lowest of any war. Hamas killed over 1000 in one day. Your narative completely falls apart under scrutiny. Israel vaccinated 600k gazan children in the middle of a war zone while hamas stole their food and dug up the water pipes to make rockets. Both sides are pure evil. Choosing to murder and hiding behind daft religions. Don't excuse them." Hamas chose war. | |||
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" Anti-Zionism is a virulent form of antisemitism. Antisemitic tropes in media result in violence against Jews worldwide. Anti-Zionism denies Jews their right to self-defense. Anti-Zionism denies the historical connection of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel. Anti-Zionism and its demonization of Jews leads to violence. Anti-semitism is cloaked in critiques of Israeli government and her supporters, claiming they don’t have any issue with Jews; rather, their problem is with Zionists, a catch-all for anyone who supports the Jewish state. The vast majority of the global Jewish community are Zionists. Open and respectful debate are essential ingredients in fostering progress for all. Therefore, when discussing sensitive issues with colliding narratives, it is crucial to remove hate and misinformation from the conversation. "When people condemn Zionists - they mean Jews. You're talking anti-semitism.” Martin Luther King That is your opinion, I utterly despise Zionist’s but I have nothing against the Jewish people and very much support the thousands of good Jewish people who are revolted by Netanyahu and his murdering gang. That may be difficult for you to understand, you just need to try harder. Zionism is a fundamental part of judaism. Zion means israel and jews pray towards israel 3 times a day. Its mentioned in prayer, ritual and tradition for mileneia, since the destruction of the second temple. Saying you have nothing against jews but hate zionists is like saying you love christians, but only the ones who don't read the bible or go to church. " Sounds fair to me….i was christened, but never read fiction and don’t worship sky fairies. | |||
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" Very well said" Thanks | |||
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"Nope. Clearly I’m not I’m saying just use the terms Jew and Muslim. It’s direct, inoffensive and suitsble for the conversation. That’s what’s being said?...not all Jews are zionists, and not all Muslims are jihadi bombers...that's four different classes of people...not two And yet all of those individuals you listed can be un - offensively categorised the same by just the 2 terms. Viola. ...but they're 4 different groups? And yet my response still applies. ....I give up... "No don’t give up… follow the logic, and think of a grouping…..oh I know ‘men’ possibly ‘ mankind’ surely no one can object??? For the hard of understanding I am being sarcastic. | |||
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"This from the writings of the cleric/historian Bishop Sebeos circa 760AD (not a direct quote): The Jews saw the coming Muslim hoard as saviours, joining the ranks of their armies and calling them Ishmaelites and in doing so granting them equal status in the eyes of Yahweh. From the quran. 9:29 "Fight those who do not believe in Allah and the Last Day, nor comply with what Allah and His Messenger have forbidden, nor embrace the religion of truth from among those who were given the Scripture,(1) until they pay the tax,(2) willingly submitting, fully humbled."" From the bibble; Galatians 5:12 As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves. | |||
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| |||
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"Who cares about all this garbage dragged up from the bible or any other pile of nonsense. My concern is for the tens of thousands of helpless children without legs or arms, all visited on them by a gang of squatters who are mostly atheists and only interested in how much they can steal from the native inhabitants. Because if you dont understand the history and the religions you don't understand the situation. I disagree with you nor I think would those children with no legs or arms. But if you can find solace in these “HOLLY” books which are just nonsense then I am sorry for you. I'm an athiest. You really should stop making wild assumptions and jumping to conclusions as you clearly arent very good at it. It doesnt matter what you or i think about religion. Palestinians and jews believe it and it is the overarching factor behind the whole situation. Therefore you should have at least a basic knowledge about it and the history if you want to offer an opinion that can be taken seriously. Thank you for pointing out my intellectual inadequacies, but I did say “if you find solace” so I don’t see where I made any wild assumptions. It is my understanding that the Zionist’s are in fact mostly atheist which makes one wonder why they call anyone who dares to criticise their dreadful regime of anti semitism, but that’s not my problem. The Muslim’s may well be more deluded in that direction but once again it’s not my business. My basic argument remains the same, what gives these N European Zionist’s the right to murder and maim an entire nation of innocent people and to steal their land as they wish. Your basic agument is false. You ignore that not all jews are european. There was already a jewish population in that land. There are more jews there who were forced to leave arab countries than arrived from the holocaust. They weren't stealing land, Jews bought land, the arabs tried to steal their land and genocide/murder the jews in the war of independance. (The actual topic of this thread which has been almost entirely ignored) If you want to blame someone for the dead and injured children, blame hamas for starting the war, using civillians as sheilds and child soldiers. Framing israel as evil doesnt work when you know the history, crying about the children doesnt work when when you say nothing about how palestinian children are literally taught to want to be a suicide bombers and families get paid if they are sucessful. It wasnt israel that massacered unarmed festival goers, invaded homes to slaughter families, and paraded dead, half naked young women through the streets for cheering crowds. Hamas declared war, threatened to repeat oct 7th over and over an wipe out every jew. Well, they got the war they ordered and its an unfortunate fact of war that innocent people are killed and injured in war. Israel have done everything possible to minimise those deaths. 75k have been killed in two years, more than half of those are hamas soldiers. That makes civillian death rates the lowest of any war. Hamas killed over 1000 in one day. Your narative completely falls apart under scrutiny. Israel vaccinated 600k gazan children in the middle of a war zone while hamas stole their food and dug up the water pipes to make rockets. Both sides are pure evil. Choosing to murder and hiding behind daft religions. Don't excuse them." Totally nonsense, it has always been the Zionist’s who have have thrown 75 thousand Palestinians into a concentration camp and subjected the rest to an apartheid state, how many Palestinians are rotting in prison for years under these brutal thugs with out ever being tried and being sexually assaulted as these animals please. When any people are oppressed as the Palastinian people have been no one can blame them for reacting against their oppression and save your breath if you want to blame anyone other then Israel for starving people when we witnessed the hundreds of lorries lined up at the border, all stopped by Israel while babies died of starvation. Netanyahu is wanted to face trial for his war crimes, sooner the better. | |||
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"You are literally arguing over whether temple or a hill is called temple mount. I say it does not exist (a temple) you say it does (a hill) but you completely disregard that billions of others dont call it temple mount and have other words for exactly the same place. It was probably called "rocky grazing for sheep and goats" once too. This is how pathetic your argument is. You are arguing that temple mount doesn't exist. It clearly does. The temple's demolition is irrelevant. It is still the holiest site in judaism and it is still the mount the temple stood on. Did Jesus ever tour there?" An early tour i thing, possibly plugging the difficult second album. Catering was good, all loaves & fishes. Merch, not so much | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"You are literally arguing over whether temple or a hill is called temple mount. I say it does not exist (a temple) you say it does (a hill) but you completely disregard that billions of others dont call it temple mount and have other words for exactly the same place. It was probably called "rocky grazing for sheep and goats" once too. This is how pathetic your argument is. You are arguing that temple mount doesn't exist. It clearly does. The temple's demolition is irrelevant. It is still the holiest site in judaism and it is still the mount the temple stood on. Did Jesus ever tour there? An early tour i thing, possibly plugging the difficult second album. Catering was good, all loaves & fishes. Merch, not so much" Merch was doing well until he started flipping tables and whipping the merchants. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"You are literally arguing over whether temple or a hill is called temple mount. I say it does not exist (a temple) you say it does (a hill) but you completely disregard that billions of others dont call it temple mount and have other words for exactly the same place. It was probably called "rocky grazing for sheep and goats" once too. This is how pathetic your argument is. You are arguing that temple mount doesn't exist. It clearly does. The temple's demolition is irrelevant. It is still the holiest site in judaism and it is still the mount the temple stood on. Did Jesus ever tour there? An early tour i thing, possibly plugging the difficult second album. Catering was good, all loaves & fishes. Merch, not so much Merch was doing well until he started flipping tables and whipping the merchants." Artistic temperament, left the blue smarties in the bowl, rookie error from promoter. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Who cares about all this garbage dragged up from the bible or any other pile of nonsense. My concern is for the tens of thousands of helpless children without legs or arms, all visited on them by a gang of squatters who are mostly atheists and only interested in how much they can steal from the native inhabitants. Because if you dont understand the history and the religions you don't understand the situation. I disagree with you nor I think would those children with no legs or arms. But if you can find solace in these “HOLLY” books which are just nonsense then I am sorry for you. I'm an athiest. You really should stop making wild assumptions and jumping to conclusions as you clearly arent very good at it. It doesnt matter what you or i think about religion. Palestinians and jews believe it and it is the overarching factor behind the whole situation. Therefore you should have at least a basic knowledge about it and the history if you want to offer an opinion that can be taken seriously. Thank you for pointing out my intellectual inadequacies, but I did say “if you find solace” so I don’t see where I made any wild assumptions. It is my understanding that the Zionist’s are in fact mostly atheist which makes one wonder why they call anyone who dares to criticise their dreadful regime of anti semitism, but that’s not my problem. The Muslim’s may well be more deluded in that direction but once again it’s not my business. My basic argument remains the same, what gives these N European Zionist’s the right to murder and maim an entire nation of innocent people and to steal their land as they wish. Your basic agument is false. You ignore that not all jews are european. There was already a jewish population in that land. There are more jews there who were forced to leave arab countries than arrived from the holocaust. They weren't stealing land, Jews bought land, the arabs tried to steal their land and genocide/murder the jews in the war of independance. (The actual topic of this thread which has been almost entirely ignored) If you want to blame someone for the dead and injured children, blame hamas for starting the war, using civillians as sheilds and child soldiers. Framing israel as evil doesnt work when you know the history, crying about the children doesnt work when when you say nothing about how palestinian children are literally taught to want to be a suicide bombers and families get paid if they are sucessful. It wasnt israel that massacered unarmed festival goers, invaded homes to slaughter families, and paraded dead, half naked young women through the streets for cheering crowds. Hamas declared war, threatened to repeat oct 7th over and over an wipe out every jew. Well, they got the war they ordered and its an unfortunate fact of war that innocent people are killed and injured in war. Israel have done everything possible to minimise those deaths. 75k have been killed in two years, more than half of those are hamas soldiers. That makes civillian death rates the lowest of any war. Hamas killed over 1000 in one day. Your narative completely falls apart under scrutiny. Israel vaccinated 600k gazan children in the middle of a war zone while hamas stole their food and dug up the water pipes to make rockets. Both sides are pure evil. Choosing to murder and hiding behind daft religions. Don't excuse them. Totally nonsense, it has always been the Zionist’s who have have thrown 75 thousand Palestinians into a concentration camp and subjected the rest to an apartheid state, how many Palestinians are rotting in prison for years under these brutal thugs with out ever being tried and being sexually assaulted as these animals please. When any people are oppressed as the Palastinian people have been no one can blame them for reacting against their oppression and save your breath if you want to blame anyone other then Israel for starving people when we witnessed the hundreds of lorries lined up at the border, all stopped by Israel while babies died of starvation. Netanyahu is wanted to face trial for his war crimes, sooner the better." So you are just going to keep ignoring oct 7th, hamas vowing genocide, and the 5 arab armies that attempted to genocide the jews in 1947, and again in 1948, and 1967 (x2), 1973.... Also, we have all seen the hamas stockpiles of hijacked food, the aid being sold on the markets and the fat hamas palestinians claiming to be starving. We saw truck drivers being attacked, even killed, and refusing to go back. The un failing to distribute stuff properly. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"You are literally arguing over whether temple or a hill is called temple mount. I say it does not exist (a temple) you say it does (a hill) but you completely disregard that billions of others dont call it temple mount and have other words for exactly the same place. It was probably called "rocky grazing for sheep and goats" once too. This is how pathetic your argument is. You are arguing that temple mount doesn't exist. It clearly does. The temple's demolition is irrelevant. It is still the holiest site in judaism and it is still the mount the temple stood on. Did Jesus ever tour there? An early tour i thing, possibly plugging the difficult second album. Catering was good, all loaves & fishes. Merch, not so much Merch was doing well until he started flipping tables and whipping the merchants. Artistic temperament, left the blue smarties in the bowl, rookie error from promoter." That judas set him up. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Who cares about all this garbage dragged up from the bible or any other pile of nonsense. My concern is for the tens of thousands of helpless children without legs or arms, all visited on them by a gang of squatters who are mostly atheists and only interested in how much they can steal from the native inhabitants. Because if you dont understand the history and the religions you don't understand the situation. I disagree with you nor I think would those children with no legs or arms. But if you can find solace in these “HOLLY” books which are just nonsense then I am sorry for you. I'm an athiest. You really should stop making wild assumptions and jumping to conclusions as you clearly arent very good at it. It doesnt matter what you or i think about religion. Palestinians and jews believe it and it is the overarching factor behind the whole situation. Therefore you should have at least a basic knowledge about it and the history if you want to offer an opinion that can be taken seriously. Thank you for pointing out my intellectual inadequacies, but I did say “if you find solace” so I don’t see where I made any wild assumptions. It is my understanding that the Zionist’s are in fact mostly atheist which makes one wonder why they call anyone who dares to criticise their dreadful regime of anti semitism, but that’s not my problem. The Muslim’s may well be more deluded in that direction but once again it’s not my business. My basic argument remains the same, what gives these N European Zionist’s the right to murder and maim an entire nation of innocent people and to steal their land as they wish. Your basic agument is false. You ignore that not all jews are european. There was already a jewish population in that land. There are more jews there who were forced to leave arab countries than arrived from the holocaust. They weren't stealing land, Jews bought land, the arabs tried to steal their land and genocide/murder the jews in the war of independance. (The actual topic of this thread which has been almost entirely ignored) If you want to blame someone for the dead and injured children, blame hamas for starting the war, using civillians as sheilds and child soldiers. Framing israel as evil doesnt work when you know the history, crying about the children doesnt work when when you say nothing about how palestinian children are literally taught to want to be a suicide bombers and families get paid if they are sucessful. It wasnt israel that massacered unarmed festival goers, invaded homes to slaughter families, and paraded dead, half naked young women through the streets for cheering crowds. Hamas declared war, threatened to repeat oct 7th over and over an wipe out every jew. Well, they got the war they ordered and its an unfortunate fact of war that innocent people are killed and injured in war. Israel have done everything possible to minimise those deaths. 75k have been killed in two years, more than half of those are hamas soldiers. That makes civillian death rates the lowest of any war. Hamas killed over 1000 in one day. Your narative completely falls apart under scrutiny. Israel vaccinated 600k gazan children in the middle of a war zone while hamas stole their food and dug up the water pipes to make rockets. Both sides are pure evil. Choosing to murder and hiding behind daft religions. Don't excuse them. Totally nonsense, it has always been the Zionist’s who have have thrown 75 thousand Palestinians into a concentration camp and subjected the rest to an apartheid state, how many Palestinians are rotting in prison for years under these brutal thugs with out ever being tried and being sexually assaulted as these animals please. When any people are oppressed as the Palastinian people have been no one can blame them for reacting against their oppression and save your breath if you want to blame anyone other then Israel for starving people when we witnessed the hundreds of lorries lined up at the border, all stopped by Israel while babies died of starvation. Netanyahu is wanted to face trial for his war crimes, sooner the better. So you are just going to keep ignoring oct 7th, hamas vowing genocide, and the 5 arab armies that attempted to genocide the jews in 1947, and again in 1948, and 1967 (x2), 1973.... Also, we have all seen the hamas stockpiles of hijacked food, the aid being sold on the markets and the fat hamas palestinians claiming to be starving. We saw truck drivers being attacked, even killed, and refusing to go back. The un failing to distribute stuff properly. " I have often condemned Hamas so don’t accuse me of ignoring it. I am also aware that doctors flying into Israel to give their services freely in Gaza, we're being searched by the authorities and baby food was taken off them by these wonderful people. Your other accusation are just false, we all saw the hundreds of lorries lining up at the border and being refused admission by more of these Isreal gangsters. I actually have no interest in arguing with narrow minded bigots so if you want to believe that all those lorries were just parked for miles at the border that’s fine, I disagree with you. | |||
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| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
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"Who cares about all this garbage dragged up from the bible or any other pile of nonsense. My concern is for the tens of thousands of helpless children without legs or arms, all visited on them by a gang of squatters who are mostly atheists and only interested in how much they can steal from the native inhabitants. Very blinkered view about the food distribution when you don’t also mention the so-called safe food hubs set up by the American and Israelis that just turned into a shooting gallery interesting how many unarmed people where shot for trying to receive aid from a place the Israelis told them to go to Because if you dont understand the history and the religions you don't understand the situation. I disagree with you nor I think would those children with no legs or arms. But if you can find solace in these “HOLLY” books which are just nonsense then I am sorry for you. I'm an athiest. You really should stop making wild assumptions and jumping to conclusions as you clearly arent very good at it. It doesnt matter what you or i think about religion. Palestinians and jews believe it and it is the overarching factor behind the whole situation. Therefore you should have at least a basic knowledge about it and the history if you want to offer an opinion that can be taken seriously. Thank you for pointing out my intellectual inadequacies, but I did say “if you find solace” so I don’t see where I made any wild assumptions. It is my understanding that the Zionist’s are in fact mostly atheist which makes one wonder why they call anyone who dares to criticise their dreadful regime of anti semitism, but that’s not my problem. The Muslim’s may well be more deluded in that direction but once again it’s not my business. My basic argument remains the same, what gives these N European Zionist’s the right to murder and maim an entire nation of innocent people and to steal their land as they wish. Your basic agument is false. You ignore that not all jews are european. There was already a jewish population in that land. There are more jews there who were forced to leave arab countries than arrived from the holocaust. They weren't stealing land, Jews bought land, the arabs tried to steal their land and genocide/murder the jews in the war of independance. (The actual topic of this thread which has been almost entirely ignored) If you want to blame someone for the dead and injured children, blame hamas for starting the war, using civillians as sheilds and child soldiers. Framing israel as evil doesnt work when you know the history, crying about the children doesnt work when when you say nothing about how palestinian children are literally taught to want to be a suicide bombers and families get paid if they are sucessful. It wasnt israel that massacered unarmed festival goers, invaded homes to slaughter families, and paraded dead, half naked young women through the streets for cheering crowds. Hamas declared war, threatened to repeat oct 7th over and over an wipe out every jew. Well, they got the war they ordered and its an unfortunate fact of war that innocent people are killed and injured in war. Israel have done everything possible to minimise those deaths. 75k have been killed in two years, more than half of those are hamas soldiers. That makes civillian death rates the lowest of any war. Hamas killed over 1000 in one day. Your narative completely falls apart under scrutiny. Israel vaccinated 600k gazan children in the middle of a war zone while hamas stole their food and dug up the water pipes to make rockets. Both sides are pure evil. Choosing to murder and hiding behind daft religions. Don't excuse them. Totally nonsense, it has always been the Zionist’s who have have thrown 75 thousand Palestinians into a concentration camp and subjected the rest to an apartheid state, how many Palestinians are rotting in prison for years under these brutal thugs with out ever being tried and being sexually assaulted as these animals please. When any people are oppressed as the Palastinian people have been no one can blame them for reacting against their oppression and save your breath if you want to blame anyone other then Israel for starving people when we witnessed the hundreds of lorries lined up at the border, all stopped by Israel while babies died of starvation. Netanyahu is wanted to face trial for his war crimes, sooner the better. So you are just going to keep ignoring oct 7th, hamas vowing genocide, and the 5 arab armies that attempted to genocide the jews in 1947, and again in 1948, and 1967 (x2), 1973.... Also, we have all seen the hamas stockpiles of hijacked food, the aid being sold on the markets and the fat hamas palestinians claiming to be starving. We saw truck drivers being attacked, even killed, and refusing to go back. The un failing to distribute stuff properly. " | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Who cares about all this garbage dragged up from the bible or any other pile of nonsense. My concern is for the tens of thousands of helpless children without legs or arms, all visited on them by a gang of squatters who are mostly atheists and only interested in how much they can steal from the native inhabitants. Very blinkered view about the food distribution when you don’t also mention the so-called safe food hubs set up by the American and Israelis that just turned into a shooting gallery interesting how many unarmed people where shot for trying to receive aid from a place the Israelis told them to go to Because if you dont understand the history and the religions you don't understand the situation. I disagree with you nor I think would those children with no legs or arms. But if you can find solace in these “HOLLY” books which are just nonsense then I am sorry for you. I'm an athiest. You really should stop making wild assumptions and jumping to conclusions as you clearly arent very good at it. It doesnt matter what you or i think about religion. Palestinians and jews believe it and it is the overarching factor behind the whole situation. Therefore you should have at least a basic knowledge about it and the history if you want to offer an opinion that can be taken seriously. Thank you for pointing out my intellectual inadequacies, but I did say “if you find solace” so I don’t see where I made any wild assumptions. It is my understanding that the Zionist’s are in fact mostly atheist which makes one wonder why they call anyone who dares to criticise their dreadful regime of anti semitism, but that’s not my problem. The Muslim’s may well be more deluded in that direction but once again it’s not my business. My basic argument remains the same, what gives these N European Zionist’s the right to murder and maim an entire nation of innocent people and to steal their land as they wish. Your basic agument is false. You ignore that not all jews are european. There was already a jewish population in that land. There are more jews there who were forced to leave arab countries than arrived from the holocaust. They weren't stealing land, Jews bought land, the arabs tried to steal their land and genocide/murder the jews in the war of independance. (The actual topic of this thread which has been almost entirely ignored) If you want to blame someone for the dead and injured children, blame hamas for starting the war, using civillians as sheilds and child soldiers. Framing israel as evil doesnt work when you know the history, crying about the children doesnt work when when you say nothing about how palestinian children are literally taught to want to be a suicide bombers and families get paid if they are sucessful. It wasnt israel that massacered unarmed festival goers, invaded homes to slaughter families, and paraded dead, half naked young women through the streets for cheering crowds. Hamas declared war, threatened to repeat oct 7th over and over an wipe out every jew. Well, they got the war they ordered and its an unfortunate fact of war that innocent people are killed and injured in war. Israel have done everything possible to minimise those deaths. 75k have been killed in two years, more than half of those are hamas soldiers. That makes civillian death rates the lowest of any war. Hamas killed over 1000 in one day. Your narative completely falls apart under scrutiny. Israel vaccinated 600k gazan children in the middle of a war zone while hamas stole their food and dug up the water pipes to make rockets. Both sides are pure evil. Choosing to murder and hiding behind daft religions. Don't excuse them. Totally nonsense, it has always been the Zionist’s who have have thrown 75 thousand Palestinians into a concentration camp and subjected the rest to an apartheid state, how many Palestinians are rotting in prison for years under these brutal thugs with out ever being tried and being sexually assaulted as these animals please. When any people are oppressed as the Palastinian people have been no one can blame them for reacting against their oppression and save your breath if you want to blame anyone other then Israel for starving people when we witnessed the hundreds of lorries lined up at the border, all stopped by Israel while babies died of starvation. Netanyahu is wanted to face trial for his war crimes, sooner the better. So you are just going to keep ignoring oct 7th, hamas vowing genocide, and the 5 arab armies that attempted to genocide the jews in 1947, and again in 1948, and 1967 (x2), 1973.... Also, we have all seen the hamas stockpiles of hijacked food, the aid being sold on the markets and the fat hamas palestinians claiming to be starving. We saw truck drivers being attacked, even killed, and refusing to go back. The un failing to distribute stuff properly. " | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Who cares about all this garbage dragged up from the bible or any other pile of nonsense. My concern is for the tens of thousands of helpless children without legs or arms, all visited on them by a gang of squatters who are mostly atheists and only interested in how much they can steal from the native inhabitants. Very blinkered view about the food distribution when you don’t also mention the so-called safe food hubs set up by the American and Israelis that just turned into a shooting gallery interesting how many unarmed people where shot for trying to receive aid from a place the Israelis told them to go to Because if you dont understand the history and the religions you don't understand the situation. I disagree with you nor I think would those children with no legs or arms. But if you can find solace in these “HOLLY” books which are just nonsense then I am sorry for you. I'm an athiest. You really should stop making wild assumptions and jumping to conclusions as you clearly arent very good at it. It doesnt matter what you or i think about religion. Palestinians and jews believe it and it is the overarching factor behind the whole situation. Therefore you should have at least a basic knowledge about it and the history if you want to offer an opinion that can be taken seriously. Thank you for pointing out my intellectual inadequacies, but I did say “if you find solace” so I don’t see where I made any wild assumptions. It is my understanding that the Zionist’s are in fact mostly atheist which makes one wonder why they call anyone who dares to criticise their dreadful regime of anti semitism, but that’s not my problem. The Muslim’s may well be more deluded in that direction but once again it’s not my business. My basic argument remains the same, what gives these N European Zionist’s the right to murder and maim an entire nation of innocent people and to steal their land as they wish. Your basic agument is false. You ignore that not all jews are european. There was already a jewish population in that land. There are more jews there who were forced to leave arab countries than arrived from the holocaust. They weren't stealing land, Jews bought land, the arabs tried to steal their land and genocide/murder the jews in the war of independance. (The actual topic of this thread which has been almost entirely ignored) If you want to blame someone for the dead and injured children, blame hamas for starting the war, using civillians as sheilds and child soldiers. Framing israel as evil doesnt work when you know the history, crying about the children doesnt work when when you say nothing about how palestinian children are literally taught to want to be a suicide bombers and families get paid if they are sucessful. It wasnt israel that massacered unarmed festival goers, invaded homes to slaughter families, and paraded dead, half naked young women through the streets for cheering crowds. Hamas declared war, threatened to repeat oct 7th over and over an wipe out every jew. Well, they got the war they ordered and its an unfortunate fact of war that innocent people are killed and injured in war. Israel have done everything possible to minimise those deaths. 75k have been killed in two years, more than half of those are hamas soldiers. That makes civillian death rates the lowest of any war. Hamas killed over 1000 in one day. Your narative completely falls apart under scrutiny. Israel vaccinated 600k gazan children in the middle of a war zone while hamas stole their food and dug up the water pipes to make rockets. Both sides are pure evil. Choosing to murder and hiding behind daft religions. Don't excuse them. Totally nonsense, it has always been the Zionist’s who have have thrown 75 thousand Palestinians into a concentration camp and subjected the rest to an apartheid state, how many Palestinians are rotting in prison for years under these brutal thugs with out ever being tried and being sexually assaulted as these animals please. When any people are oppressed as the Palastinian people have been no one can blame them for reacting against their oppression and save your breath if you want to blame anyone other then Israel for starving people when we witnessed the hundreds of lorries lined up at the border, all stopped by Israel while babies died of starvation. Netanyahu is wanted to face trial for his war crimes, sooner the better. So you are just going to keep ignoring oct 7th, hamas vowing genocide, and the 5 arab armies that attempted to genocide the jews in 1947, and again in 1948, and 1967 (x2), 1973.... Also, we have all seen the hamas stockpiles of hijacked food, the aid being sold on the markets and the fat hamas palestinians claiming to be starving. We saw truck drivers being attacked, even killed, and refusing to go back. The un failing to distribute stuff properly. " Very blinkered view about the food distribution when you don’t also mention the so-called safe food hubs set up by the American and Israelis that just turned into a shooting gallery interesting how many unarmed people where shot for trying to receive aid from a place the Israelis told them to go to | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Who cares about all this garbage dragged up from the bible or any other pile of nonsense. My concern is for the tens of thousands of helpless children without legs or arms, all visited on them by a gang of squatters who are mostly atheists and only interested in how much they can steal from the native inhabitants. Very blinkered view about the food distribution when you don’t also mention the so-called safe food hubs set up by the American and Israelis that just turned into a shooting gallery interesting how many unarmed people where shot for trying to receive aid from a place the Israelis told them to go to Because if you dont understand the history and the religions you don't understand the situation. I disagree with you nor I think would those children with no legs or arms. But if you can find solace in these “HOLLY” books which are just nonsense then I am sorry for you. I'm an athiest. You really should stop making wild assumptions and jumping to conclusions as you clearly arent very good at it. It doesnt matter what you or i think about religion. Palestinians and jews believe it and it is the overarching factor behind the whole situation. Therefore you should have at least a basic knowledge about it and the history if you want to offer an opinion that can be taken seriously. Thank you for pointing out my intellectual inadequacies, but I did say “if you find solace” so I don’t see where I made any wild assumptions. It is my understanding that the Zionist’s are in fact mostly atheist which makes one wonder why they call anyone who dares to criticise their dreadful regime of anti semitism, but that’s not my problem. The Muslim’s may well be more deluded in that direction but once again it’s not my business. My basic argument remains the same, what gives these N European Zionist’s the right to murder and maim an entire nation of innocent people and to steal their land as they wish. Your basic agument is false. You ignore that not all jews are european. There was already a jewish population in that land. There are more jews there who were forced to leave arab countries than arrived from the holocaust. They weren't stealing land, Jews bought land, the arabs tried to steal their land and genocide/murder the jews in the war of independance. (The actual topic of this thread which has been almost entirely ignored) If you want to blame someone for the dead and injured children, blame hamas for starting the war, using civillians as sheilds and child soldiers. Framing israel as evil doesnt work when you know the history, crying about the children doesnt work when when you say nothing about how palestinian children are literally taught to want to be a suicide bombers and families get paid if they are sucessful. It wasnt israel that massacered unarmed festival goers, invaded homes to slaughter families, and paraded dead, half naked young women through the streets for cheering crowds. Hamas declared war, threatened to repeat oct 7th over and over an wipe out every jew. Well, they got the war they ordered and its an unfortunate fact of war that innocent people are killed and injured in war. Israel have done everything possible to minimise those deaths. 75k have been killed in two years, more than half of those are hamas soldiers. That makes civillian death rates the lowest of any war. Hamas killed over 1000 in one day. Your narative completely falls apart under scrutiny. Israel vaccinated 600k gazan children in the middle of a war zone while hamas stole their food and dug up the water pipes to make rockets. Both sides are pure evil. Choosing to murder and hiding behind daft religions. Don't excuse them. Totally nonsense, it has always been the Zionist’s who have have thrown 75 thousand Palestinians into a concentration camp and subjected the rest to an apartheid state, how many Palestinians are rotting in prison for years under these brutal thugs with out ever being tried and being sexually assaulted as these animals please. When any people are oppressed as the Palastinian people have been no one can blame them for reacting against their oppression and save your breath if you want to blame anyone other then Israel for starving people when we witnessed the hundreds of lorries lined up at the border, all stopped by Israel while babies died of starvation. Netanyahu is wanted to face trial for his war crimes, sooner the better. So you are just going to keep ignoring oct 7th, hamas vowing genocide, and the 5 arab armies that attempted to genocide the jews in 1947, and again in 1948, and 1967 (x2), 1973.... Also, we have all seen the hamas stockpiles of hijacked food, the aid being sold on the markets and the fat hamas palestinians claiming to be starving. We saw truck drivers being attacked, even killed, and refusing to go back. The un failing to distribute stuff properly. Very blinkered view about the food distribution when you don’t also mention the so-called safe food hubs set up by the American and Israelis that just turned into a shooting gallery interesting how many unarmed people where shot for trying to receive aid from a place the Israelis told them to go to" No sane person would believe a word coming from any Israel or American mouth, they just lie and lie just like their leaders. | |||
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"Who cares about all this garbage dragged up from the bible or any other pile of nonsense. My concern is for the tens of thousands of helpless children without legs or arms, all visited on them by a gang of squatters who are mostly atheists and only interested in how much they can steal from the native inhabitants. Very blinkered view about the food distribution when you don’t also mention the so-called safe food hubs set up by the American and Israelis that just turned into a shooting gallery interesting how many unarmed people where shot for trying to receive aid from a place the Israelis told them to go to Because if you dont understand the history and the religions you don't understand the situation. I disagree with you nor I think would those children with no legs or arms. But if you can find solace in these “HOLLY” books which are just nonsense then I am sorry for you. I'm an athiest. You really should stop making wild assumptions and jumping to conclusions as you clearly arent very good at it. It doesnt matter what you or i think about religion. Palestinians and jews believe it and it is the overarching factor behind the whole situation. Therefore you should have at least a basic knowledge about it and the history if you want to offer an opinion that can be taken seriously. Thank you for pointing out my intellectual inadequacies, but I did say “if you find solace” so I don’t see where I made any wild assumptions. It is my understanding that the Zionist’s are in fact mostly atheist which makes one wonder why they call anyone who dares to criticise their dreadful regime of anti semitism, but that’s not my problem. The Muslim’s may well be more deluded in that direction but once again it’s not my business. My basic argument remains the same, what gives these N European Zionist’s the right to murder and maim an entire nation of innocent people and to steal their land as they wish. Your basic agument is false. You ignore that not all jews are european. There was already a jewish population in that land. There are more jews there who were forced to leave arab countries than arrived from the holocaust. They weren't stealing land, Jews bought land, the arabs tried to steal their land and genocide/murder the jews in the war of independance. (The actual topic of this thread which has been almost entirely ignored) If you want to blame someone for the dead and injured children, blame hamas for starting the war, using civillians as sheilds and child soldiers. Framing israel as evil doesnt work when you know the history, crying about the children doesnt work when when you say nothing about how palestinian children are literally taught to want to be a suicide bombers and families get paid if they are sucessful. It wasnt israel that massacered unarmed festival goers, invaded homes to slaughter families, and paraded dead, half naked young women through the streets for cheering crowds. Hamas declared war, threatened to repeat oct 7th over and over an wipe out every jew. Well, they got the war they ordered and its an unfortunate fact of war that innocent people are killed and injured in war. Israel have done everything possible to minimise those deaths. 75k have been killed in two years, more than half of those are hamas soldiers. That makes civillian death rates the lowest of any war. Hamas killed over 1000 in one day. Your narative completely falls apart under scrutiny. Israel vaccinated 600k gazan children in the middle of a war zone while hamas stole their food and dug up the water pipes to make rockets. Both sides are pure evil. Choosing to murder and hiding behind daft religions. Don't excuse them. Totally nonsense, it has always been the Zionist’s who have have thrown 75 thousand Palestinians into a concentration camp and subjected the rest to an apartheid state, how many Palestinians are rotting in prison for years under these brutal thugs with out ever being tried and being sexually assaulted as these animals please. When any people are oppressed as the Palastinian people have been no one can blame them for reacting against their oppression and save your breath if you want to blame anyone other then Israel for starving people when we witnessed the hundreds of lorries lined up at the border, all stopped by Israel while babies died of starvation. Netanyahu is wanted to face trial for his war crimes, sooner the better. So you are just going to keep ignoring oct 7th, hamas vowing genocide, and the 5 arab armies that attempted to genocide the jews in 1947, and again in 1948, and 1967 (x2), 1973.... Also, we have all seen the hamas stockpiles of hijacked food, the aid being sold on the markets and the fat hamas palestinians claiming to be starving. We saw truck drivers being attacked, even killed, and refusing to go back. The un failing to distribute stuff properly. Very blinkered view about the food distribution when you don’t also mention the so-called safe food hubs set up by the American and Israelis that just turned into a shooting gallery interesting how many unarmed people where shot for trying to receive aid from a place the Israelis told them to go to No sane person would believe a word coming from any Israel or American mouth, they just lie and lie just like their leaders." Totally agree with the last paragraph, but it does omit the words ‘Hamas’ ‘Hesbollah’ and ‘Iranian’ amongst others. There is no party in these wars that is blameless or innocent, apart from the civilians caught in the middle of it. Arguing who is more to blame is pointless as the reasons are lost in the mists of time. | |||
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". I have often condemned Hamas so don’t accuse me of ignoring it. I am also aware that doctors flying into Israel to give their services freely in Gaza, we're being searched by the authorities and baby food was taken off them by these wonderful people. Your other accusation are just false, we all saw the hundreds of lorries lining up at the border and being refused admission by more of these Isreal gangsters. I actually have no interest in arguing with narrow minded bigots so if you want to believe that all those lorries were just parked for miles at the border that’s fine, I disagree with you." You have ignored every mention of hamas in this thread and you have completely ignored the attempted arab genocide this thread is about. Tbh you haven't engaged a single point. My accusations arent false, you can tell yourself that they are and call me a bigot but you cant prove it. Whereas every point you make i have refuted. Your doctors were travelling into a war zone and only products from a known and approved supply chain are allowed in. Its basic common sense. Hijacking, stockpiles, aid for sale at inflated prices, fat hamas palestinians are all fact. Disagreeing is irrelevant as its all on film and admitted by palestinian leaders and gazans themself. | |||
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"Who cares about all this garbage dragged up from the bible or any other pile of nonsense. My concern is for the tens of thousands of helpless children without legs or arms, all visited on them by a gang of squatters who are mostly atheists and only interested in how much they can steal from the native inhabitants. Very blinkered view about the food distribution when you don’t also mention the so-called safe food hubs set up by the American and Israelis that just turned into a shooting gallery interesting how many unarmed people where shot for trying to receive aid from a place the Israelis told them to go to Because if you dont understand the history and the religions you don't understand the situation. I disagree with you nor I think would those children with no legs or arms. But if you can find solace in these “HOLLY” books which are just nonsense then I am sorry for you. I'm an athiest. You really should stop making wild assumptions and jumping to conclusions as you clearly arent very good at it. It doesnt matter what you or i think about religion. Palestinians and jews believe it and it is the overarching factor behind the whole situation. Therefore you should have at least a basic knowledge about it and the history if you want to offer an opinion that can be taken seriously. Thank you for pointing out my intellectual inadequacies, but I did say “if you find solace” so I don’t see where I made any wild assumptions. It is my understanding that the Zionist’s are in fact mostly atheist which makes one wonder why they call anyone who dares to criticise their dreadful regime of anti semitism, but that’s not my problem. The Muslim’s may well be more deluded in that direction but once again it’s not my business. My basic argument remains the same, what gives these N European Zionist’s the right to murder and maim an entire nation of innocent people and to steal their land as they wish. Your basic agument is false. You ignore that not all jews are european. There was already a jewish population in that land. There are more jews there who were forced to leave arab countries than arrived from the holocaust. They weren't stealing land, Jews bought land, the arabs tried to steal their land and genocide/murder the jews in the war of independance. (The actual topic of this thread which has been almost entirely ignored) If you want to blame someone for the dead and injured children, blame hamas for starting the war, using civillians as sheilds and child soldiers. Framing israel as evil doesnt work when you know the history, crying about the children doesnt work when when you say nothing about how palestinian children are literally taught to want to be a suicide bombers and families get paid if they are sucessful. It wasnt israel that massacered unarmed festival goers, invaded homes to slaughter families, and paraded dead, half naked young women through the streets for cheering crowds. Hamas declared war, threatened to repeat oct 7th over and over an wipe out every jew. Well, they got the war they ordered and its an unfortunate fact of war that innocent people are killed and injured in war. Israel have done everything possible to minimise those deaths. 75k have been killed in two years, more than half of those are hamas soldiers. That makes civillian death rates the lowest of any war. Hamas killed over 1000 in one day. Your narative completely falls apart under scrutiny. Israel vaccinated 600k gazan children in the middle of a war zone while hamas stole their food and dug up the water pipes to make rockets. Both sides are pure evil. Choosing to murder and hiding behind daft religions. Don't excuse them. Totally nonsense, it has always been the Zionist’s who have have thrown 75 thousand Palestinians into a concentration camp and subjected the rest to an apartheid state, how many Palestinians are rotting in prison for years under these brutal thugs with out ever being tried and being sexually assaulted as these animals please. When any people are oppressed as the Palastinian people have been no one can blame them for reacting against their oppression and save your breath if you want to blame anyone other then Israel for starving people when we witnessed the hundreds of lorries lined up at the border, all stopped by Israel while babies died of starvation. Netanyahu is wanted to face trial for his war crimes, sooner the better. So you are just going to keep ignoring oct 7th, hamas vowing genocide, and the 5 arab armies that attempted to genocide the jews in 1947, and again in 1948, and 1967 (x2), 1973.... Also, we have all seen the hamas stockpiles of hijacked food, the aid being sold on the markets and the fat hamas palestinians claiming to be starving. We saw truck drivers being attacked, even killed, and refusing to go back. The un failing to distribute stuff properly. Very blinkered view about the food distribution when you don’t also mention the so-called safe food hubs set up by the American and Israelis that just turned into a shooting gallery interesting how many unarmed people where shot for trying to receive aid from a place the Israelis told them to go to" Nobody got shot for trying recieve aid. They fucked around and found out. That said, hamas did shoot plenty of people for no good reason so maybe you are confused... | |||
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" No sane person would believe a word coming from any Israel or American mouth, they just lie and lie just like their leaders." Ironic that hamas are the ones caught frauding death numbers, posting misinformation and outright lies, and the pro pally supporters share reams of videos pictures from yemen and syria and even A.I. claiming they are from gaza, gazans staging fake videos etc, etc, etc | |||
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". I have often condemned Hamas so don’t accuse me of ignoring it. I am also aware that doctors flying into Israel to give their services freely in Gaza, we're being searched by the authorities and baby food was taken off them by these wonderful people. Your other accusation are just false, we all saw the hundreds of lorries lining up at the border and being refused admission by more of these Isreal gangsters. I actually have no interest in arguing with narrow minded bigots so if you want to believe that all those lorries were just parked for miles at the border that’s fine, I disagree with you. You have ignored every mention of hamas in this thread and you have completely ignored the attempted arab genocide this thread is about. Tbh you haven't engaged a single point. My accusations arent false, you can tell yourself that they are and call me a bigot but you cant prove it. Whereas every point you make i have refuted. Your doctors were travelling into a war zone and only products from a known and approved supply chain are allowed in. Its basic common sense. Hijacking, stockpiles, aid for sale at inflated prices, fat hamas palestinians are all fact. Disagreeing is irrelevant as its all on film and admitted by palestinian leaders and gazans themself. " Yes you appear to be very happy telling lies, now you are suggesting that qualified doctors were bringing in baby food from some unknown source, wise up. Then you accuse me of not mentioning Hamas when I have condemned them many times, read the first line of this silly exchange. I believe the carnage we see from Gaza and the miles of lorries lined up at border, while you suffer from selective blindness. Perhaps you can explain why since 1948 have the Israel’s lost 36,000 and the Palestinians have lost 135,000, I don’t believe one word emitted by the wanted war criminal Netanyahu or his close friend the convicted fraudster, draft dodger, sexual deviant and who knows what other crimes will come to light when the Epstein files are finally released. I think I am on very much firmer ground than you are. | |||
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" No sane person would believe a word coming from any Israel or American mouth, they just lie and lie just like their leaders. Ironic that hamas are the ones caught frauding death numbers, posting misinformation and outright lies, and the pro pally supporters share reams of videos pictures from yemen and syria and even A.I. claiming they are from gaza, gazans staging fake videos etc, etc, etc " That’s very interesting, so Gaza is all lies, it’s not damaged at all, such a pity they won’t allow the press in to verify that and to show us all these happy people enjoying their schools and hospitals. You will forgive me but I have doubts about that having any truth in it. | |||
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". I have often condemned Hamas so don’t accuse me of ignoring it. I am also aware that doctors flying into Israel to give their services freely in Gaza, we're being searched by the authorities and baby food was taken off them by these wonderful people. Your other accusation are just false, we all saw the hundreds of lorries lining up at the border and being refused admission by more of these Isreal gangsters. I actually have no interest in arguing with narrow minded bigots so if you want to believe that all those lorries were just parked for miles at the border that’s fine, I disagree with you. You have ignored every mention of hamas in this thread and you have completely ignored the attempted arab genocide this thread is about. Tbh you haven't engaged a single point. My accusations arent false, you can tell yourself that they are and call me a bigot but you cant prove it. Whereas every point you make i have refuted. Your doctors were travelling into a war zone and only products from a known and approved supply chain are allowed in. Its basic common sense. Hijacking, stockpiles, aid for sale at inflated prices, fat hamas palestinians are all fact. Disagreeing is irrelevant as its all on film and admitted by palestinian leaders and gazans themself. Yes you appear to be very happy telling lies, now you are suggesting that qualified doctors were bringing in baby food from some unknown source, wise up. Then you accuse me of not mentioning Hamas when I have condemned them many times, read the first line of this silly exchange. I believe the carnage we see from Gaza and the miles of lorries lined up at border, while you suffer from selective blindness. Perhaps you can explain why since 1948 have the Israel’s lost 36,000 and the Palestinians have lost 135,000, I don’t believe one word emitted by the wanted war criminal Netanyahu or his close friend the convicted fraudster, draft dodger, sexual deviant and who knows what other crimes will come to light when the Epstein files are finally released. I think I am on very much firmer ground than you are." Show me where you have debated anything to do with hamas/palestinian attacks/war of independance genocide attempt. The doctors know what they are allowed to take in. Making out its some kind of travesty that israel have rules to prevent smuggling dangerous stuff in is typical of the kind of duplicity used to manipulate and lie to people. Another is the use of fallacious arguments such as trying to imply that more palestinians dying than israelis is proof that israel are the bad guys. Back to original topic, when 5 arab armys attempted to genocide israel in 1948, far more arabs died than israelis and the arabs were the genocidal agressors who attacked a smaller and barely armed bunch of fighters. Again, your argument falls apart. | |||
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" No sane person would believe a word coming from any Israel or American mouth, they just lie and lie just like their leaders. Ironic that hamas are the ones caught frauding death numbers, posting misinformation and outright lies, and the pro pally supporters share reams of videos pictures from yemen and syria and even A.I. claiming they are from gaza, gazans staging fake videos etc, etc, etc That’s very interesting, so Gaza is all lies, it’s not damaged at all, such a pity they won’t allow the press in to verify that and to show us all these happy people enjoying their schools and hospitals. You will forgive me but I have doubts about that having any truth in it." You should doubt its true because you are inventing a false premise and misrepresenting what i said. Where did i say there is no damage? Its a war, of course there is damage. Hamas and pro pally have repeatedly used fake videos and claims to portray israel as criminals and evil. Hamas massively lied about the death toll and lied about incidents such as the palestinian jihad missile that hit al ahli hospital. There is a reason they lie and that is because the reality is that the civillian death toll is the lowest any comparable war despite it being in a heavily populated area. This is thanks to the extraordinary measures the idf have taken to avoid them. This fact alone blows the narrative out of the water. Without the lies they just have war footage. For perspective 225,000 civilians have died in syria, 337,000 in yemen, 200,000 in darfur. Iran killed 30,000+ civillian protestors in just days. 75k have died in gaza in two years. Hamas fighters are included in thoss figures and hamas had 40,000 fighters in gaza, not many remain. That leaves around the same amount of civillians dead as the amount of protestors shot in the street in iran in just a few days. Nobody from the pro pally side is crying for the iranian children, greta isnt organising a flotilla and the news barely reported it. No jews, no news. You are being played and used. | |||
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"Wow. Unbelievable. " What’s unbelievable? The truth? | |||
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"What we see here is a brainwashed individual, with cognitive dissonance so entrenched that theyre incapable of separating truth from their delusion and negotiating undisputed facts. Critical thpught is not for them. Its really sad. It must be exhausting to be so compelled to defend lies and half-truths. Hasbara trolls are easy to spot and there's little point engaging. Its like arguing with a toddler." You literally spent hours trying to argue temple mount doesnt exist.. after telling us how you lived in israel... | |||
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"What we see here is a brainwashed individual, with cognitive dissonance so entrenched that theyre incapable of separating truth from their delusion and negotiating undisputed facts. Critical thpught is not for them. Its really sad. It must be exhausting to be so compelled to defend lies and half-truths. Hasbara trolls are easy to spot and there's little point engaging. Its like arguing with a toddler. You literally spent hours trying to argue temple mount doesnt exist.. after telling us how you lived in israel..." There you go with your dissonance. You simply are a treasure. Only reading what you want to see is a gift you have in abundance. Its very sad. | |||
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"What we see here is a brainwashed individual, with cognitive dissonance so entrenched that theyre incapable of separating truth from their delusion and negotiating undisputed facts. Critical thpught is not for them. Its really sad. It must be exhausting to be so compelled to defend lies and half-truths. Hasbara trolls are easy to spot and there's little point engaging. Its like arguing with a toddler. You literally spent hours trying to argue temple mount doesnt exist.. after telling us how you lived in israel... There you go with your dissonance. You simply are a treasure. Only reading what you want to see is a gift you have in abundance. Its very sad." You are literaly pretending a 37 acre site doesnt exist. A site that is on the world heritage list... Seems a bit like your talk of dissonance is pure projection. | |||
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"Everyone can read the exchange if they want (though I suggest they go have a cup of tea instead) and see that you were stuck and incapable of moving on from your incorrect interpretation of what was said. It is classic dissonance. You have spouted lies and half-truths, you have been ismaophobic and racist, you have used scripture in your posts, you have not debated facts, you have deflected when other challenge you and you have accused people of lying. I'm not going to engage anymore, so say whatever you like now. Like most of what youve written in this thread, its meaningless nonsense anyway." Lets make this very simple for you. There was a temple, it was built on temple mount. The temple is gone, temple mount is still there. It is a 37 acre world heritage site and the most holy site in judaism. They pray towards it 3 times a day and you can go and physically stand on it and see the remains of the western wall. This is not a lie and it is not nonsense. It is undisputable fact that you are trying to argue which is the dissonance you are trying to project on to me. Your whole post is projection, deflection and actual nonsense. | |||
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"As for temple mount. It doesn't exist. It was destroyed by non-Arabs and a mosque was built in its place, so of course Muslims are entitled to go there as its a Muslim holy site. It is in East Jerusalem, Palestine, overseen by Jordan as part of the UN conventions and has special designation. Jews are restricted by Israeli laws agreen by the UN, nothing to do with the Arabs." Tell me which part of you saying temple mount doesnt exist I am misunderstanding. | |||
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" Me - As for accepting arabs as equals, there is an arab muslim supreme court judge, nearly 2 million arabs choose to live in israel and they will tell you they have equal rights, the muslims actually have more rights when it comes to accessing temple mount. Verscumdump - Have you ever lived in Israel? I have. I dont know any Arab Iraelis who would say they have equal rights- because, in law, they don't. Thats a fact of Israeli law and practice. An Arab Israeli on the Israeli Supreme Court (just 1 of 15 yet Arabs are 20+% of the population) is the equivalent of a Democrat judge on todays USA SC - impotent. Pogroms happened elsewhere and are nothing to do with what happens in the region today, unless you want to draw an equivalent to the pogroms, restrictions and victimisation levelled on Arab Israelis. Why don't these Arabs leave? Why should they? It is their home, until a zionists comes along and steals it with the help of the military or knocks it down and they become victim of your "equal rights". Me - I seriously doubt you have lived in israel if you say that temple mount doesnt exist. And i doubt you know any arab israelis. I also didnt say arab israelis should leave. There are no settlers in israel. You are confusing the west bank and you are showing a not unexpected level of ignorance. Verscumdump - Oh bless you, trying to have me doubting where I've lived and who I know. Temple Mount is real in your imagination and in history books and the lips of those who would like to see it restored. Reality is that since the 7th century it is Al-aqsa and Dome of The Rock. Things exist until they dont exist. Hanging Gardens of Babylon for example. Me - The temple no longer exists. Temple mount does. Its 37 acres, kinda hard to miss.. Verscumdump - Aka haram al-Sharif. Like I said, things only exist until they don't. Me - Yeah, you can literaly go and stand on temple mount. It exists, calling it by its arabic name does not change that. Verscumdump - It does for the billions of people who don't call it your given name. Me - It doesn't. You can go and stand on temple mount and touch the western wall. Jews were killed in the 1929 hebron massacre for wanting to worship at it. Jews have prayed towards it 3 times a day for the last 2000 years. You even admit that its under special controls to allow both jews and muslims to access it due to its religious significance for both. Verscumdump - It does, because the long-destroyed temple, which Jews named a hill for, means nothing to them. I admitted to nothing that aligns with what you've said I admitted to, you're simply twisting words to suit your argument. Few Jews, and I know a lot of Jews, pray 3 times a day, and most only pray when in a synagogue, whichnis hardly ever. Those that do pray, in Israel, face the hill. Those abroad just face Jerusalem in the same way Muslims face Mecca, and those is Saudi face the kabala. As the hill is quite a small space within Jerusalem, chances are thier facing is off, but oh well nobody cares. Me- "The hill" is called temple mount and you have just confirmed its existence and religious significance. " Me giving you facts, not deflecting and pointing out you are completely wrong about temple mount and that you are conflating the temple and temple mount | |||
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"Wow. Unbelievable. What’s unbelievable? The truth?" Your version of it. Yes. | |||
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"Are you aware that Zion was considered as the name for the newly invented nation but was rejected because the term Zionist already existed and meant something entirely different. Considered pejorative, quite rightly to be sneered at as all fascist ideologies should be sneered at." Does that change the fact that zionism has existed for millennia and is an integral part of judaism?" It proves that Zion (or indeed zionism) and Zionism are entirely separate concepts. | |||
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"Are you aware that Zion was considered as the name for the newly invented nation but was rejected because the term Zionist already existed and meant something entirely different. Considered pejorative, quite rightly to be sneered at as all fascist ideologies should be sneered at." Does that change the fact that zionism has existed for millennia and is an integral part of judaism? It proves that Zion (or indeed zionism) and Zionism are entirely separate concepts. " It's in the Bible- Boney M Chapter 3 | |||
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"Are you aware that Zion was considered as the name for the newly invented nation but was rejected because the term Zionist already existed and meant something entirely different. Considered pejorative, quite rightly to be sneered at as all fascist ideologies should be sneered at." Does that change the fact that zionism has existed for millennia and is an integral part of judaism? It proves that Zion (or indeed zionism) and Zionism are entirely separate concepts. It's in the Bible- Boney M Chapter 3" Almost everything written in the Old Testament is untrue and lacks evidence. It wasn't even written when they claim it was. I don't see how that can form the basis for debate. | |||
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" You are told israel are hated because of war crimes, that before israel was created jews and muslims lived in harmony. This is total fiction. The arabs hate israel because they are jews. " You should indeed learn some history. Throughout most of history Muslims tolerated Jews. They did not hate them. It was Christian states that persecuted the Jews.. This remained the case until the last 100 years or so, when Jews decided to steal some Arab lands for a national home, based on some 2000-year old biblical claim, rather that than that of the people who were actually living there at the time. This is the sole reason Arabs now hate Jews. | |||
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"Are you aware that Zion was considered as the name for the newly invented nation but was rejected because the term Zionist already existed and meant something entirely different. Considered pejorative, quite rightly to be sneered at as all fascist ideologies should be sneered at." Does that change the fact that zionism has existed for millennia and is an integral part of judaism? It proves that Zion (or indeed zionism) and Zionism are entirely separate concepts. " They aren't separate concepts. Political Zionism is the continuation/manifestation of religious zionism. | |||
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" You are told israel are hated because of war crimes, that before israel was created jews and muslims lived in harmony. This is total fiction. The arabs hate israel because they are jews. You should indeed learn some history. Throughout most of history Muslims tolerated Jews. They did not hate them. It was Christian states that persecuted the Jews.. This remained the case until the last 100 years or so, when Jews decided to steal some Arab lands for a national home, based on some 2000-year old biblical claim, rather that than that of the people who were actually living there at the time. This is the sole reason Arabs now hate Jews." It's you who should learn history. TOLERATED Jews?? I don't think so. Jews have always lived there, albeit many sent out into the diaspora. | |||
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" You are told israel are hated because of war crimes, that before israel was created jews and muslims lived in harmony. This is total fiction. The arabs hate israel because they are jews. You should indeed learn some history. Throughout most of history Muslims tolerated Jews. They did not hate them. It was Christian states that persecuted the Jews.. This remained the case until the last 100 years or so, when Jews decided to steal some Arab lands for a national home, based on some 2000-year old biblical claim, rather that than that of the people who were actually living there at the time. This is the sole reason Arabs now hate Jews. It's you who should learn history. TOLERATED Jews?? I don't think so. Jews have always lived there, albeit many sent out into the diaspora. Read some histopry going back a bit further Jews were seldom perscuted under Muslim rulers. Although not of their true faith their Abrahamic origins wrre recognised and they were seen as "people of the book" who worshipped one god. They may have had to pay higher taxes because they were not of the Prophet's faith but that was the main extent of any discrimination It was the Christians who murderd and persecuted Jews, repeatedly thoughout history because they had killed Christ. And after the first World war when the state of Israel was mooted, Jews were a tiny minority in Palestine and had been so for over a thousand years. " | |||
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" You are told israel are hated because of war crimes, that before israel was created jews and muslims lived in harmony. This is total fiction. The arabs hate israel because they are jews. You should indeed learn some history. Throughout most of history Muslims tolerated Jews. They did not hate them. It was Christian states that persecuted the Jews.. This remained the case until the last 100 years or so, when Jews decided to steal some Arab lands for a national home, based on some 2000-year old biblical claim, rather that than that of the people who were actually living there at the time. This is the sole reason Arabs now hate Jews." First off, jews have lived in that land for thousands of years. The jews bought every square foot of land until the arabs tried to invade them and lost land. Before israel, 77% of mandatory palestine had already been given to transjordan. Jews were subjugated, oppressed and taxed for being jewish in muslim countrys. There have been countless pogroms and massacres by arab muslims against jews long before israel was a prospect. The actual reason for it is religion. In the early part of the quran mohammed spoke highly of judaism and claimed the rabbis will confirm his prophecy. The Jewish rabbis (and christian priests) rejected mohammed as a prophet and from that point on the tone changes to one that admonishes and castigates jews and christians and becomes violent and hateful. | |||
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" You are told israel are hated because of war crimes, that before israel was created jews and muslims lived in harmony. This is total fiction. The arabs hate israel because they are jews. You should indeed learn some history. Throughout most of history Muslims tolerated Jews. They did not hate them. It was Christian states that persecuted the Jews.. This remained the case until the last 100 years or so, when Jews decided to steal some Arab lands for a national home, based on some 2000-year old biblical claim, rather that than that of the people who were actually living there at the time. This is the sole reason Arabs now hate Jews. First off, jews have lived in that land for thousands of years. The jews bought every square foot of land until the arabs tried to invade them and lost land. Before israel, 77% of mandatory palestine had already been given to transjordan. Jews were subjugated, oppressed and taxed for being jewish in muslim countrys. There have been countless pogroms and massacres by arab muslims against jews long before israel was a prospect. The actual reason for it is religion. In the early part of the quran mohammed spoke highly of judaism and claimed the rabbis will confirm his prophecy. The Jewish rabbis (and christian priests) rejected mohammed as a prophet and from that point on the tone changes to one that admonishes and castigates jews and christians and becomes violent and hateful. " Very true | |||
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" You are told israel are hated because of war crimes, that before israel was created jews and muslims lived in harmony. This is total fiction. The arabs hate israel because they are jews. You should indeed learn some history. Throughout most of history Muslims tolerated Jews. They did not hate them. It was Christian states that persecuted the Jews.. This remained the case until the last 100 years or so, when Jews decided to steal some Arab lands for a national home, based on some 2000-year old biblical claim, rather that than that of the people who were actually living there at the time. This is the sole reason Arabs now hate Jews. It's you who should learn history. TOLERATED Jews?? I don't think so. Jews have always lived there, albeit many sent out into the diaspora. Read some histopry going back a bit further Jews were seldom perscuted under Muslim rulers. Although not of their true faith their Abrahamic origins wrre recognised and they were seen as "people of the book" who worshipped one god. They may have had to pay higher taxes because they were not of the Prophet's faith but that was the main extent of any discrimination It was the Christians who murderd and persecuted Jews, repeatedly thoughout history because they had killed Christ. And after the first World war when the state of Israel was mooted, Jews were a tiny minority in Palestine and had been so for over a thousand years. " The discrimination included religious restrictions, less rights, expected subservience - muslims were the first to make jews wear a star of david to identify their subservience. Quran 9:86 and 2:62 describes jews as the worst of creatures. | |||
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". I have often condemned Hamas so don’t accuse me of ignoring it. I am also aware that doctors flying into Israel to give their services freely in Gaza, we're being searched by the authorities and baby food was taken off them by these wonderful people. Your other accusation are just false, we all saw the hundreds of lorries lining up at the border and being refused admission by more of these Isreal gangsters. I actually have no interest in arguing with narrow minded bigots so if you want to believe that all those lorries were just parked for miles at the border that’s fine, I disagree with you. You have ignored every mention of hamas in this thread and you have completely ignored the attempted arab genocide this thread is about. Tbh you haven't engaged a single point. My accusations arent false, you can tell yourself that they are and call me a bigot but you cant prove it. Whereas every point you make i have refuted. Your doctors were travelling into a war zone and only products from a known and approved supply chain are allowed in. Its basic common sense. Hijacking, stockpiles, aid for sale at inflated prices, fat hamas palestinians are all fact. Disagreeing is irrelevant as its all on film and admitted by palestinian leaders and gazans themself. Yes you appear to be very happy telling lies, now you are suggesting that qualified doctors were bringing in baby food from some unknown source, wise up. Then you accuse me of not mentioning Hamas when I have condemned them many times, read the first line of this silly exchange. I believe the carnage we see from Gaza and the miles of lorries lined up at border, while you suffer from selective blindness. Perhaps you can explain why since 1948 have the Israel’s lost 36,000 and the Palestinians have lost 135,000, I don’t believe one word emitted by the wanted war criminal Netanyahu or his close friend the convicted fraudster, draft dodger, sexual deviant and who knows what other crimes will come to light when the Epstein files are finally released. I think I am on very much firmer ground than you are. Show me where you have debated anything to do with hamas/palestinian attacks/war of independance genocide attempt. The doctors know what they are allowed to take in. Making out its some kind of travesty that israel have rules to prevent smuggling dangerous stuff in is typical of the kind of duplicity used to manipulate and lie to people. Another is the use of fallacious arguments such as trying to imply that more palestinians dying than israelis is proof that israel are the bad guys. Back to original topic, when 5 arab armys attempted to genocide israel in 1948, far more arabs died than israelis and the arabs were the genocidal agressors who attacked a smaller and barely armed bunch of fighters. Again, your argument falls apart. " Thick as two short planks springs to mind. I have condemned Hamas on many occasions, do make a special effort to absorb that fact. Doctors are highly qualified professional people who traveled to offer their services freely to an oppressed people and were shocked when baby formula was confiscated by the Isreal officials. No one even pretended that this could possibly be dangerous, it was confiscated to ensure that it would never end up in the stomach of some bag of bones clinging on to life in Gaza. That it would seem would be very agreeable to you which brings the thought of total degenerate to mind. I invited you to explain the 4/1 difference in the Palestinian/ Israel numbers of deaths but you accuse me of using this as an attempt to prove Israel as the bad guy, unbelievable. You seem very happy to support the wanted for war crimes fugitive and the convicted fraudster, draft dodger and sexual deviant so one has to assume that people who share their immorality are your kind of people. I believe that there are 175 topics in this forum so I accept that I have not addressed them all, I am staying on what the OP presented. | |||
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" Thick as two short planks springs to mind. I have condemned Hamas on many occasions, do make a special effort to absorb that fact. Doctors are highly qualified professional people who traveled to offer their services freely to an oppressed people and were shocked when baby formula was confiscated by the Isreal officials. No one even pretended that this could possibly be dangerous, it was confiscated to ensure that it would never end up in the stomach of some bag of bones clinging on to life in Gaza. That it would seem would be very agreeable to you which brings the thought of total degenerate to mind. I invited you to explain the 4/1 difference in the Palestinian/ Israel numbers of deaths but you accuse me of using this as an attempt to prove Israel as the bad guy, unbelievable. You seem very happy to support the wanted for war crimes fugitive and the convicted fraudster, draft dodger and sexual deviant so one has to assume that people who share their immorality are your kind of people. I believe that there are 175 topics in this forum so I accept that I have not addressed them all, I am staying on what the OP presented. " Well _hirtyguy. Isnt it funny how you have mangaged to comment on a thread an hour after it has been closed? You think you are being clever however I know how you and your mate wait until the thread is closed to have the last word and avoid your remarks being questioned and your insults beimg challenged. Your post history shows you do it quite regularly and you have the cheek to imply fraudsters are 'my kind of people' I'm not going to post how it is done as everyone will be doing it however that fact i am replying hours after the thread has closed proves I am not making it up. Do you think it acceptable to manipulate the forum in this way to throw out a barrage of insults and misinformation unchallenged? Lets start with your first lie. You did not condemn hamas or address the point of debate. Infact you tossed out this little gem - "When any people are oppressed as the Palastinian people have been no one can blame them for reacting against their oppression" which is the exact opposite of condemning them. You tried to imply that death toll is an indicator of who is 'guilty' and still are continuing to do so. I addressed this already by pointing out that the arab armys in the war of independance who invaded with genocidal intent and more power actually lost more lives than israel. Some of the reasons israel have lost less lives is that they build bomb shelters to protect their people, dont send their kids out as suicide bombers and dont start wars they can't win so they can parade their dead children around to emotionally manipulate liberal useful idiots into attempting to cry bully the world into supporting terrorists. Your comments about the doctors are also dishonest. You are employing a fallacy known as 'an appeal to authority' which is intended to place doctors out of the range of questions and accountability by presenting them as virtuous beyond doubt when infact they could easily be workimg for or pressured by hamas to smuggle. Thanks for the insults btw, they show me that you have nothing of value to say. Your arguments are full of holes and your ignorance and bias is clear to see. Anyway, I've made my point and exposed your dirty trick of frauding closed threads. I wont make a habit of sneaking in the last comment, i'm only doing so to make everyone aware of what is happening and so everyone can have a chuckle at the patheticness of it all. | |||
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