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" Made some sense to include T as they are also a marginalised and misunderstood sexual minority, in need of legal protection and equal rights. There is a vocal, aggressive and destructive minority that use that label to try to impose their will, and have created a situation where societal tolerance is diminishing, for the first time ever. Taking the force-teamed members of the LGBTQ group with them. The Q and the plus are deliberately vague about what they include. Seems to include some things that LGB & T shouldn't want to be associated with." The Ts were also very active in the Gay Liberation movement so are part of the group, plus most trans people started their journey through being gay or bisexual. To me it's all the other letters that have been added on don't belong, they are all variations of the LGBT anyway with the exception of intersex which is a medical condition/birth defect. | |||
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" Made some sense to include T as they are also a marginalised and misunderstood sexual minority, in need of legal protection and equal rights. There is a vocal, aggressive and destructive minority that use that label to try to impose their will, and have created a situation where societal tolerance is diminishing, for the first time ever. Taking the force-teamed members of the LGBTQ group with them. The Q and the plus are deliberately vague about what they include. Seems to include some things that LGB & T shouldn't want to be associated with. The Ts were also very active in the Gay Liberation movement so are part of the group, plus most trans people started their journey through being gay or bisexual. To me it's all the other letters that have been added on don't belong, they are all variations of the LGBT anyway with the exception of intersex which is a medical condition/birth defect." There is some historical revisionism, at play, with the supposed contribution of transsexual activists in the gay liberation movement. The Beaumont Society in the UK, deliberately distanced and differentiated themselves from homosexuals. When they achieved the legal recognition that they sought, they didn't continue to campaign or change focus to help ensure that similar rights were given to homosexuals. | |||
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"Trans people, intersex people, queer, asexual, ect. We're strong as one unit instead of playing pick me! Pick me! The discussion was never over in this country, so long as the far right can find a group to blame in the culture war, gay men, trans people, whoever, will always be at risk. "The UK has fallen to 22nd place on the annual Rainbow Index of European countries ranked by their laws on LGBTI equality. The UK is now the second worst country for overall LGBTI laws in all of western Europe and Scandinavia, with only Italy ranked lower. The UK was in first place in 2015 but has slipped down the index every year since." " You say the UK has gone down some law index, always sceptical with these. But nothing has changed legal wise for the LGB since gay marraige. What extra rights do other LGBs have elsewhere in Europe? | |||
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"You just want a bit of freedom to live your life in a way that makes you happy, with the caveat that it must respect and protect others. I don't see why that's so different for a gay man or a trans woman. " I'd say it's more difficult for trans women to live without fear of ridicule or worse, most gays and lesbians can blend in and not be obvious especially in environments where they may not be safe expressing their sexuality. | |||
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"Nobody mentioned Marsha Johnson yet?" Say his name three times, while looking in the mirror, and you'll start finding glitter all over the house.  | |||
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"You just want a bit of freedom to live your life in a way that makes you happy, with the caveat that it must respect and protect others. I don't see why that's so different for a gay man or a trans woman. " this comes back to the original point of the article. As a bi man, it does not affect anyone else if I have sex with men or women apart from those involved. Same if I married a man or woman. However trans women do impact others e.g women in single sex spaces, women's sports etc. Hence a very different set of issues and discussion. Hence the point of "dropping" the T. | |||
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"You just want a bit of freedom to live your life in a way that makes you happy, with the caveat that it must respect and protect others. I don't see why that's so different for a gay man or a trans woman. I'd say it's more difficult for trans women to live without fear of ridicule or worse, most gays and lesbians can blend in and not be obvious especially in environments where they may not be safe expressing their sexuality." Part of the conflict and difficulty. Should a woman trust, without question, and potentially compromise her own sense of safety, if she finds a person that she perceives as male in a female-only space. | |||
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"You just want a bit of freedom to live your life in a way that makes you happy, with the caveat that it must respect and protect others. I don't see why that's so different for a gay man or a trans woman. I'd say it's more difficult for trans women to live without fear of ridicule or worse, most gays and lesbians can blend in and not be obvious especially in environments where they may not be safe expressing their sexuality." You make a good point. A lot of transwomen tend to stand out in the crowd because, despite the way they dress, act etc etc their bodies still show some manly traits e.g. hands, feet, height etc. Sadly there are still people hostile towards gays as well as trans but, unless gays are naturally effeminate or flaunt their gayness, no one can tell. I got away with it nearly all my life because I didn't appear different to any other man. Certainly never flaunted it or made a nuisance of myself. | |||
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"I'm probably going to be told I am wrong but to me LGB is about sexual preference whilst T is a gender issue. Q and all the additional letters in this alphabet soup are a bit meaningless. I've know 2 transwomen and 1 transman. All very nice people who got on with their lives, had the necessary hormone treatment and surgery but didn't get all militant and scream it from the rooftops. As I say very nice people but as a gay man I felt no real affinity with them. Support each other within reason but we are not the same. Worse aspect now seems to be the straight world lumping us together. You get people thinking that because you are gay you must be trans which is quite ridiculous" I'm a "Intersex" person. So I'm quite meaningless? Do you know what an intersex person is? I suggest you do your homework,before you start trying to label me and my group of people meaningless. Your level of ignorance far exceeds most comments on here so far. Out of all the groups LGBTQI. Intersex people are the only group that are actually physically different. Gay men seem to just like bitching about everyone else. Look up Intersex and learn. | |||
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"I understand trans women want to be accepted as women, but while they still have penises, they will find it difficult being accepted as such. A fully trans woman wouldn’t even be noticed, so would be fully accepted, but until they are in that position, society in general won’t be happy with trans women using women only spaces." Spot on there, and I'd expand it by suggesting that if you identify as a woman but still display typically male sexual behaviours you're not convincing anyone. The level of internalised misogyny among some of the TV/TS here rather dismays me, e.g. referring to themselves as slags or whores etc. It's obviously not as clear cut as men = libidinous horndogs/women = virtuous saints but I think most true transwomen just want to live as female without the overt sexuality that they often get painted with by tranny-chaser admirers (who themselves are in a sort of denial about their own gayness, wanting a chick with a dick so they can convince themselves they're not gay even with 6" of cock up their arse) | |||
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" I'm a "Intersex" person. So I'm quite meaningless? Do you know what an intersex person is? I suggest you do your homework,before you start trying to label me and my group of people meaningless. Your level of ignorance far exceeds most comments on here so far. Out of all the groups LGBTQI. Intersex people are the only group that are actually physically different. Gay men seem to just like bitching about everyone else. Look up Intersex and learn. " Which intersex disorder do you suffer from? (Or DSD as it is now classified) | |||
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"I think that a part of the problem is that when LGB were demanding equal rights, that is all they were after, not to the detriment of any other part of society. The trans issue has a problem because many straight women aren’t happy sharing spaces with what are physically, in effect, men in a dress. They are finding this a problem and detrimental to their way of life. I understand trans women want to be accepted as women, but while they still have penises, they will find it difficult being accepted as such. A fully trans woman wouldn’t even be noticed, so would be fully accepted, but until they are in that position, society in general won’t be happy with trans women using women only spaces." Wow so you believe all the British media crap. I'm an intersex woman. I was born with a penis and a vagina. I've never had hormone treatment. I have real breasts, fallopian tubes, a Uterus and I'm an XX. Rather than an XY. I am very feminine and I've always been considered to be female. But I physically have both female parts and male. You are obviously a gay man? You don't know much about what you claim to have a view on. In Germany and many other countries there are a recognised three genders. Male, female, and Intersex. Its only belligerent Britain that such levels of ignorance seem to exist. Why don't you all do some real research instead of listening to GBNews? | |||
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" I'm a "Intersex" person. So I'm quite meaningless? Do you know what an intersex person is? I suggest you do your homework,before you start trying to label me and my group of people meaningless. Your level of ignorance far exceeds most comments on here so far. Out of all the groups LGBTQI. Intersex people are the only group that are actually physically different. Gay men seem to just like bitching about everyone else. Look up Intersex and learn. Which intersex disorder do you suffer from? (Or DSD as it is now classified)" Disorder is a rather emotive term. Difference would be better maybe? If somebody's genetics have gifted them with particular and rare physical characteristics it seems unfair to use a clinical term for them. Women got sick of being labelled by men with hysteria as a disorder decades ago. | |||
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"DSD is neither sexuality nor transgender identity. Many DSD people do not want to be lumped into the ever-growing alphabet soup either. " Oh really? Do you know any? | |||
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"DSD is neither sexuality nor transgender identity. Many DSD people do not want to be lumped into the ever-growing alphabet soup either. Oh really? Do you know any? " Yes. | |||
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"Read a very interesting article today, thought I would see what everyone thought? Was by an American gay rights campaigner who reckoned that the current "discussions" around trans rights is damaging LGBQ people as well and that the two should be separated as there are different issues in play. Got me thinking as until recently the whole LGBQ discussion in this country was pretty much over in my view, bar the hardcore 1% who you will never change. But things do seem to be getting slowly worse. Not saying it is right at all, but was thought provoking in these difficult times." We should go back to just gay men and bi men | |||
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"In Canada, looks like it's now MMIWG2SLGBTQQIA+ who are suffering a genocide according to one MP" Yeah I saw that, not sure what murdered and missing indigenous women and girls has to do with LGBTQI+ but it's this sort of nonsense that's taking us back decades. | |||
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"I think that a part of the problem is that when LGB were demanding equal rights, that is all they were after, not to the detriment of any other part of society. The trans issue has a problem because many straight women aren’t happy sharing spaces with what are physically, in effect, men in a dress. They are finding this a problem and detrimental to their way of life. I understand trans women want to be accepted as women, but while they still have penises, they will find it difficult being accepted as such. A fully trans woman wouldn’t even be noticed, so would be fully accepted, but until they are in that position, society in general won’t be happy with trans women using women only spaces. Wow so you believe all the British media crap. I'm an intersex woman. I was born with a penis and a vagina. I've never had hormone treatment. I have real breasts, fallopian tubes, a Uterus and I'm an XX. Rather than an XY. I am very feminine and I've always been considered to be female. But I physically have both female parts and male. You are obviously a gay man? You don't know much about what you claim to have a view on. In Germany and many other countries there are a recognised three genders. Male, female, and Intersex. Its only belligerent Britain that such levels of ignorance seem to exist. Why don't you all do some real research instead of listening to GBNews?" Lol there go the toys | |||
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"DSD is neither sexuality nor transgender identity. Many DSD people do not want to be lumped into the ever-growing alphabet soup either. Oh really? Do you know any? Yes." No you don't, you're someone who tells fibs. Your stance on this is ill informed and inaccurate. Just like your pathetic use of German. Your opinion is unwelcome. I don't like antisemitic gay men. You do know what I mean. | |||
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"DSD is neither sexuality nor transgender identity. Many DSD people do not want to be lumped into the ever-growing alphabet soup either. Oh really? Do you know any? Yes. No you don't, you're someone who tells fibs. Your stance on this is ill informed and inaccurate. Just like your pathetic use of German. Your opinion is unwelcome. I don't like antisemitic gay men. You do know what I mean. " You make many incorrect assumptions, sprinkled between your homophobic rants. | |||
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".., Many gay men are mostly quite ignorant of anything other than their own little world…" You sound such fun. Not like a judgmental harridan or anything. | |||
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Your right to be yourself takes nothing away from me.
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""No, THOSE queers are the issue. I'm one of the normal ones!" I'll pass on the American culture-war bs, thanks "Since you say your NORMAL I’d be interested to know what you views on normality are. | |||
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"I stand by my trans brothers and sisters. Same fight for the same rights.
Your right to be yourself takes nothing away from me.
"Really. I don't remember the gay guys campaigning to be allowed to compete in women's sports. | |||
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"To be honest I don’t know weather to feel sad or fucking angry over gender politics and the labels we ( non straight) are applying to ourselves and each other. For hundreds of years we’ve been fighting our recognition and to be accepted by mainstream society people have been ostracised,imprisoned, tortured, and fucking died for that right, in some countries it’s still happening, and what happens once we do get that right? And we are starting to be accepted? We start turning on each other and in the process segregate ourselves out the very society we want to be accepted into. " This is the best put comments i have ever read on these forums. Incredibly well put. X | |||
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""No, THOSE queers are the issue. I'm one of the normal ones!" I'll pass on the American culture-war bs, thanks
Since you say your NORMAL I’d be interested to know what you views on normality are. "I think you missed the quotation marks in the above post? | |||
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"There should be no LGBTQ etc period the only words there should be is i am a human being. X" Great idea x | |||
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"To be honest I don’t know weather to feel sad or fucking angry over gender politics and the labels we ( non straight) are applying to ourselves and each other. For hundreds of years we’ve been fighting our recognition and to be accepted by mainstream society people have been ostracised,imprisoned, tortured, and fucking died for that right, in some countries it’s still happening, and what happens once we do get that right? And we are starting to be accepted? We start turning on each other and in the process segregate ourselves out the very society we want to be accepted into. " Sexuality has little if anything to do with gender dysmorphia, some gay/bi/lesbians will be pro trans some won't- just like heterosexual people - why would it be any different. | |||
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"Who gives a flying fuck. I am fay full stop. All this alphabetti spaghetti shit was invented in USA and latched onto by "Liberal society" in UK I don't care what straights think, I pay the same taxes or more to protect their lifestyle" . Well said Fay  | |||
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"Who gives a flying fuck. I am fay full stop. All this alphabetti spaghetti shit was invented in USA and latched onto by "Liberal society" in UK I don't care what straights think, I pay the same taxes or more to protect their lifestyle" Congratulations on your transition fay | |||
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"Who gives a flying fuck. I am fay full stop. All this alphabetti spaghetti shit was invented in USA and latched onto by "Liberal society" in UK I don't care what straights think, I pay the same taxes or more to protect their lifestyle Congratulations on your transition fay" . Fay prefers to be called Dotty...in public..( Fay full stop) | |||
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"Who gives a flying fuck. I am fay full stop. All this alphabetti spaghetti shit was invented in USA and latched onto by "Liberal society" in UK I don't care what straights think, I pay the same taxes or more to protect their lifestyle Congratulations on your transition fay . Fay prefers to be called Dotty...in public..( Fay full stop) "Fay Full-Stop is quite a good drag name. Part of the act could be downing cold alphabetti spaghetti directly from the can, then hurling the emptied can into the audience whilst raging about the Liberal Society and straight people’s taxes. I’d certainly pay my money to go and watch this. | |||
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"Who gives a flying fuck. I am fay full stop. All this alphabetti spaghetti shit was invented in USA and latched onto by "Liberal society" in UK I don't care what straights think, I pay the same taxes or more to protect their lifestyle Congratulations on your transition fay . Fay prefers to be called Dotty...in public..( Fay full stop)
Fay Full-Stop is quite a good drag name.
Part of the act could be downing cold alphabetti spaghetti directly from the can, then hurling the emptied can into the audience whilst raging about the Liberal Society and straight people’s taxes.
I’d certainly pay my money to go and watch this. ". Ooooo your putting words in his mouth | |||
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"Read a very interesting article today, thought I would see what everyone thought? Was by an American gay rights campaigner who reckoned that the current "discussions" around trans rights is damaging LGBQ people as well and that the two should be separated as there are different issues in play. Got me thinking as until recently the whole LGBQ discussion in this country was pretty much over in my view, bar the hardcore 1% who you will never change. But things do seem to be getting slowly worse. Not saying it is right at all, but was thought provoking in these difficult times." If they succeed in eradicating Trans People, We Are Next. Simple as that. | |||
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"I'm probably going to be told I am wrong but to me LGB is about sexual preference whilst T is a gender issue. Q and all the additional letters in this alphabet soup are a bit meaningless. I've know 2 transwomen and 1 transman. All very nice people who got on with their lives, had the necessary hormone treatment and surgery but didn't get all militant and scream it from the rooftops. As I say very nice people but as a gay man I felt no real affinity with them. Support each other within reason but we are not the same. Worse aspect now seems to be the straight world lumping us together. You get people thinking that because you are gay you must be trans which is quite ridiculous I'm a "Intersex" person. So I'm quite meaningless? Do you know what an intersex person is? I suggest you do your homework,before you start trying to label me and my group of people meaningless. Your level of ignorance far exceeds most comments on here so far. Out of all the groups LGBTQI. Intersex people are the only group that are actually physically different. Gay men seem to just like bitching about everyone else. Look up Intersex and learn. " Before you fall off your high horse where did I attack genuine intersexed people? Where did I even attack trans people? I'm fully aware of what you are and what they are. I may say that some of those letters in the ever bubbling cauldron of alphabet soup are meaningless but there are so many now no-one knows what is what. Queer was always a very derogatory insult not so many years ago and yes that Q is meaningless as no doubt are others. Pansexual, Metrosexual etc are often bandied about but are probably covered by bisexual in reality. I might add that intersex is very real but non-binary is little more than the latest fashion fad. | |||
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"Drop the Q not the T it's the Qs that are the problem, we managed quite well for over 40 years as LGBT then they started adding extra letters and all that's done is confuse the normies and set things back 20 years." I think we managed for all those years as LGB, not all the other letters of the alphabet. | |||
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"Alphabet soup LGBTQIA+ Have I missed any out ?" LGBTIQCAPGNGFNBA | |||
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Your right to be yourself takes nothing away from me.
If they make us drop the T, they'll tell us to drop the B. If we drop the T and the B, next is L. Then they'll suppress the G.
We're stronger together. Your loss is my loss.
Let them eat Alphabet Soup and gag on it.
These letters shouldn't exist, we're all human... Sure, but they exist because we are not seen as equal humans by some loud idiots
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"Read a very interesting article today, thought I would see what everyone thought? Was by an American gay rights campaigner who reckoned that the current "discussions" around trans rights is damaging LGBQ people as well and that the two should be separated as there are different issues in play. Got me thinking as until recently the whole LGBQ discussion in this country was pretty much over in my view, bar the hardcore 1% who you will never change. But things do seem to be getting slowly worse. Not saying it is right at all, but was thought provoking in these difficult times." Drop the T and Q theyve done nothing but hurt the community | |||
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" A few years ago I decided to join an LGBT+ group where I was living at the time. Sounded like a nice social group with a monthly brunch meeting plus some evening socials, theatre visits etc. Went to two of the brunches. Seemed more interested in trans, non-binary and far-left political issues than anything else, so never bothered to go again." I'm with on the this, whilst I've never joined a local LGBT group, I have been on various LGBTQI+ forums and Redit groups, they're mental, it's all politics and people either overthinking their identity/sexuality or desperate to be part of the club, some clearly have psychological issues yet instead of being given advise to seek help they are just affirmed. I actually got kicked out one Redit group for saying in my opinion most bi men don't fancy men they just like the sex, the context was, I was responding to the OP who was feeling guilty because he liked sex with men but didn't fancy men, I got reported and banned for spreading misinformation, how pathetic, this is the mentality you are dealing with in these groups. | |||
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"Read a very interesting article today, thought I would see what everyone thought? Was by an American gay rights campaigner who reckoned that the current "discussions" around trans rights is damaging LGBQ people as well and that the two should be separated as there are different issues in play. Got me thinking as until recently the whole LGBQ discussion in this country was pretty much over in my view, bar the hardcore 1% who you will never change. But things do seem to be getting slowly worse. Not saying it is right at all, but was thought provoking in these difficult times. - If they succeed in eradicating Trans People, We Are Next. Simple as that. " - A little bit hyperbolic, perhaps. I see that the Girl Guides are now excluding boys, should we also be concerned that they intend to "eradicate" our sons and nephews? - | |||
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"Read a very interesting article today, thought I would see what everyone thought? Was by an American gay rights campaigner who reckoned that the current "discussions" around trans rights is damaging LGBQ people as well and that the two should be separated as there are different issues in play. Got me thinking as until recently the whole LGBQ discussion in this country was pretty much over in my view, bar the hardcore 1% who you will never change. But things do seem to be getting slowly worse. Not saying it is right at all, but was thought provoking in these difficult times. - If they succeed in eradicating Trans People, We Are Next. Simple as that. - A little bit hyperbolic, perhaps. I see that the Girl Guides are now excluding boys, should we also be concerned that they intend to "eradicate" our sons and nephews? - "Don’t be daft Boys have never joined the Girl Guides There’s a clue in the name. | |||
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"Read a very interesting article today, thought I would see what everyone thought? Was by an American gay rights campaigner who reckoned that the current "discussions" around trans rights is damaging LGBQ people as well and that the two should be separated as there are different issues in play. Got me thinking as until recently the whole LGBQ discussion in this country was pretty much over in my view, bar the hardcore 1% who you will never change. But things do seem to be getting slowly worse. Not saying it is right at all, but was thought provoking in these difficult times. - If they succeed in eradicating Trans People, We Are Next. Simple as that. - A little bit hyperbolic, perhaps. I see that the Girl Guides are now excluding boys, should we also be concerned that they intend to "eradicate" our sons and nephews? -
Don’t be daft
Boys have never joined the Girl Guides
There’s a clue in the name.
"There used to be a clue in the word 'girl', similarly 'woman'. | |||
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"Alphabet soup LGBTQIA+ Have I missed any out ? LGBTIQCAPGNGFNBA" You missed BANANAS off the end | |||
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"Alphabet soup LGBTQIA+ Have I missed any out ? " For the sake of inclusivity... ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ | |||
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"There’s no letter Q in the Welsh language so what happens to the Q’s? Hardly inclusive to all. Bigots " Never stopped the more braindead boyos from calling us a bunch of cwiers in the past | |||
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"Alphabet soup LGBTQIA+ Have I missed any out ? For the sake of inclusivity... ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ" You’re a numerophobe Bigot !! | |||
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"Drop the T Wait til the G become a political scapegoat then drop them too. And then the B " I could easily be corrected on this, but did it not all start out with the G on it's own. It was initially The Gay Society, that then grew to include Lesbians, and then Bisexuals and so the LGB was born. Later it grew again with the addition of the Trans, then the Q, then the rest of the alphabet. I like to think it's because other groups were envious and wished to join this elite group of letters. I don't care how many different letters join this group, the main thing is that we are all just wanting to be treated the same as everyone else. Whats wrong with that?.. eventually there will, or should, be no need for any such group. | |||
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" I could easily be corrected on this, but did it not all start out with the G on it's own. It was initially The Gay Society, that then grew to include Lesbians, and then Bisexuals and so the LGB was born. Later it grew again with the addition of the Trans, then the Q, then the rest of the alphabet. I like to think it's because other groups were envious and wished to join this elite group of letters. I don't care how many different letters join this group, the main thing is that we are all just wanting to be treated the same as everyone else. Whats wrong with that?.. eventually there will, or should, be no need for any such group. " Gay Liberation was an umbrella term back in the day. | |||
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"Perhaps it should all be changed to The Pride community. " . Lions got there first  | |||
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. I'm not disputing that a transgender person could be gay, I'm just saying transgender is identity, not sexual preference.
But, in my personal opinion, it's a mental illness. Many psychologists will say to you, if you believe you're something you're not. You're mentally unwell. | |||
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"The original LGB idea worked and mostly seems to have got what was wanted. Now it’s become complicated with too many groups wanting too many issues accepted and consequently largely being ignored " I agree with that, too many non-queer people want to join the lesbian, gay, bisexual, a sexual orientated group. Why add other people, with other interests that are not sexually oriented? It basically defeats the original intent behind the group. You can basically blame the rainbow agenda. Everywhere you look in schools, churches, blah blah blah. It's a "fashion statement" to be part of the Rainbow Group. | |||
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"The original LGB idea worked and mostly seems to have got what was wanted. Now it’s become complicated with too many groups wanting too many issues accepted and consequently largely being ignored I agree with that, too many non-queer people want to join the lesbian, gay, bisexual, a sexual orientated group. Why add other people, with other interests that are not sexually oriented? It basically defeats the original intent behind the group. You can basically blame the rainbow agenda. Everywhere you look in schools, churches, blah blah blah. It's a "fashion statement" to be part of the Rainbow Group. " And removing the T from the group is a strong message, stating, is no longer fashionable to be transgender. | |||
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"Why ever ( apart from being a nicer term than queers) was the name GAY applied to homosexuals? Lol 🤔💬"From what I understand, gay started out as a code word other same sex attracted people could pick up on but the normies wouldn't, it eventually became the accepted word, probably due to the gay rights movement. | |||
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" And removing the T from the group is a strong message, stating, is no longer fashionable to be transgender. " But being gay is fashionable? It was only a few short years ago that being gay was against the law with punishment such as imprisonment, chemical castration. How soon they forgot what it was like to be a deviant an outcast and cast that stigma onto another group who like them didn't get much of a choice in the matter | |||
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"Perhaps it should all be changed to The Pride community. " What community? People keep on about an LGBT+++ community but does it really exist? Perhaps in a few exclusive circles but not generally. Back in the mid '70s, when I first made discreet ventures into the then 'scene, there was an uneasy alliance between gays and lesbians. More of a tolerance because we were both after the same thing. At the time 'gay rights' were limited. You had to be 21 to have sex, no same-sex marriage or recognised partnerships, plus you could still be dismissed from a job just for being gay. The word bisexual was rarely used and trans was something you read about on Sundays in The People or News of the World. Rights have improved tremendously but very little in the way of a community. | |||
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" And removing the T from the group is a strong message, stating, is no longer fashionable to be transgender. But being gay is fashionable? It was only a few short years ago that being gay was against the law with punishment such as imprisonment, chemical castration. How soon they forgot what it was like to be a deviant an outcast and cast that stigma onto another group who like them didn't get much of a choice in the matter" Being gay is a fashion statement. Look around you. The rainbow is everywhere. TV shows, schools, churches, and you can even buy gay accessories aimed towards children. You said it was against the law to be gay a few years ago. I agree. But now it's accepted. It's become a fashion statement. (example) (My gay friend and I. Oh, I'm popular. I got a gay friend) don't be part of the crowd. Stand back and observe. | |||
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"Perhaps it should all be changed to The Pride community. What community? People keep on about an LGBT+++ community but does it really exist? Perhaps in a few exclusive circles but not generally. Back in the mid '70s, when I first made discreet ventures into the then 'scene, there was an uneasy alliance between gays and lesbians. More of a tolerance because we were both after the same thing. At the time 'gay rights' were limited. You had to be 21 to have sex, no same-sex marriage or recognised partnerships, plus you could still be dismissed from a job just for being gay. The word bisexual was rarely used and trans was something you read about on Sundays in The People or News of the World. Rights have improved tremendously but very little in the way of a community." Well I agree to a certain extent. My suggestion was mainly using the word Pride, per se. Nothing serious. | |||
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" Being gay is a fashion statement. Look around you. The rainbow is everywhere. TV shows, schools, churches, and you can even buy gay accessories aimed towards children. You said it was against the law to be gay a few years ago. I agree. But now it's accepted. It's become a fashion statement. (example) (My gay friend and I. Oh, I'm popular. I got a gay friend) don't be part of the crowd. Stand back and observe. " Being gay is not a fashion statement, many companies and local authorities think it's fashionable to virtue signal and it's not generally the rainbow flag they fly, it's the progress flag, basically the better the virtue signally, the more Brownie points they get from Stonewall. I wear a Rainbow flag pin badge, it's of the 8 colour original 1978 version, I wear it for me, not to virtue signal to others. | |||
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"Shouldn’t we add the Non-Binary and Gender Fluid people to the soup ? (Whatever they are ?) So it wil become LGBTQIANBGF+" Not sure what letters cover them but they have been added. Was briefly a member of an LGBT+ social/discussion group and the one reason why I left was because they seemed to be obsessed with non-binary/gender-fluid issues which are totally alien to me. | |||
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"Shouldn’t we add the Non-Binary and Gender Fluid people to the soup ? (Whatever they are ?) So it wil become LGBTQIANBGF+ Not sure what letters cover them but they have been added. Was briefly a member of an LGBT+ social/discussion group and the one reason why I left was because they seemed to be obsessed with non-binary/gender-fluid issues which are totally alien to me. " Same experience, I used to belong to a brilliant workplace LGB group and it changed beyond recognition when the T got added. I left, along with many, and then it became an echo chamber for the T group. | |||
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" Being gay is a fashion statement. Look around you. The rainbow is everywhere. TV shows, schools, churches, and you can even buy gay accessories aimed towards children. You said it was against the law to be gay a few years ago. I agree. But now it's accepted. It's become a fashion statement. (example) (My gay friend and I. Oh, I'm popular. I got a gay friend) don't be part of the crowd. Stand back and observe. " I get what you are trying to say but cannot quite agree with you. Being gay is not actually a fashion statement. You are either gay/bi or you are not. I guess some have tried to be gay/bi as a fashionable trend but unless the 'gay spark' is there then it is not going to work. A bit like some of us gay guys trying to be straight in the past, in order to conform, but it usually ended in misery and disaster. In certain circles it is fashionable for straight people to have gay friends. Especially amongst women who seem to like the 'fag-hag' hashtag. The only current fashion thing seems to be this non-binary/gender-fluid nonsense. | |||
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" And removing the T from the group is a strong message, stating, is no longer fashionable to be transgender. But being gay is fashionable? It was only a few short years ago that being gay was against the law with punishment such as imprisonment, chemical castration. How soon they forgot what it was like to be a deviant an outcast and cast that stigma onto another group who like them didn't get much of a choice in the matter Being gay is a fashion statement. Look around you. The rainbow is everywhere. TV shows, schools, churches, and you can even buy gay accessories aimed towards children. You said it was against the law to be gay a few years ago. I agree. But now it's accepted. It's become a fashion statement. (example) (My gay friend and I. Oh, I'm popular. I got a gay friend) don't be part of the crowd. Stand back and observe. " Being gay cannot be a fashion statement, being gay is a state of mind, a real desire to be with men. It's not something the person has any choice over, they are stuck with it, like it or lump it. However that wasn't my point but recent history seems to be telling us that the persecuted become the persecutor eventually | |||
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"Why ever ( apart from being a nicer term than queers) was the name GAY applied to homosexuals? Lol 🤔💬""Homosexual" is a bit of a mouthful.  | |||
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"Why ever ( apart from being a nicer term than queers) was the name GAY applied to homosexuals? Lol 🤔💬
"Homosexual" is a bit of a mouthful. "It is often claimed that G.A.Y was an acronym for Good As You. Possibly an afterthought. Homosexual sounds a bit clinical. Homo and Queer were all major derogatory insults in the past. Gay sound more pleasant and friendly. | |||
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"Why ever ( apart from being a nicer term than queers) was the name GAY applied to homosexuals? Lol 🤔💬
"Homosexual" is a bit of a mouthful.
It is often claimed that G.A.Y was an acronym for Good As You. Possibly an afterthought. Homosexual sounds a bit clinical. Homo and Queer were all major derogatory insults in the past. Gay sound more pleasant and friendly."Gaylord was popular in the past too. | |||
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" … Being gay is a fashion statement... " I couldn’t believe anyone - even in this Forum - was moronic enough actually to write that. Then I checked who said it and it became clear. 😬 | |||
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"Why ever ( apart from being a nicer term than queers) was the name GAY applied to homosexuals? Lol 🤔💬
"Homosexual" is a bit of a mouthful. "Personally I hate the term Gay and never use it, I am not a gay, I'm a homosexual, that is the proper term. | |||
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"Years ago trans people may have existed but were rarely heard of. Perhaps got a mention in the more sensationalist Sunday newspapers. Nowadays it has become more of an issue with more and more people claiming to be trans. So if there are more then why can't they have their own groups, societies, communities, sports etc instead of latching onto, infiltrating and taking over LGB? " Oh Dear 👎 | |||
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"Years ago trans people may have existed but were rarely heard of. Perhaps got a mention in the more sensationalist Sunday newspapers. Nowadays it has become more of an issue with more and more people claiming to be trans. So if there are more then why can't they have their own groups, societies, communities, sports etc instead of latching onto, infiltrating and taking over LGB? Oh Dear 👎 " Oh dear indeed! Trans people have been around in numbers for hundreds of years. More recently. In 1930s Berlin a so called Scientific study group was set up in Berlin. A grand building was used to do so. It was all set up in the El Dorado area. This small neighbourhood was filled with bars and clubs. There was Gay people, Trans, Intersex. All trying to enjoy life together. Without the need to be derogatory about each other. As the 1930s progressed and the Nazis took power. Most of these people were rounded up and ended up being experimented on in the camps. Around 600 in the El Dorado area alone. Eventually to be murdered. People don't realise that being transgender isn't a recent thing. But it doesn't stop them having inaccurate opinions about such things. | |||
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"Years ago trans people may have existed but were rarely heard of. Perhaps got a mention in the more sensationalist Sunday newspapers. Nowadays it has become more of an issue with more and more people claiming to be trans. So if there are more then why can't they have their own groups, societies, communities, sports etc instead of latching onto, infiltrating and taking over LGB? Oh Dear 👎 Oh dear indeed! Trans people have been around in numbers for hundreds of years. More recently. In 1930s Berlin a so called Scientific study group was set up in Berlin. A grand building was used to do so. It was all set up in the El Dorado area. This small neighbourhood was filled with bars and clubs. There was Gay people, Trans, Intersex. All trying to enjoy life together. Without the need to be derogatory about each other. As the 1930s progressed and the Nazis took power. Most of these people were rounded up and ended up being experimented on in the camps. Around 600 in the El Dorado area alone. Eventually to be murdered. People don't realise that being transgender isn't a recent thing. But it doesn't stop them having inaccurate opinions about such things. " Talk about getting the wrong end of the stick. Firstly I never claimed trans people never existed. Just not heard of or at least not much about. A distant cousin of mine married [illegally at the time] a transwoman in the '60s] I wasn't supposed to know. What I was saying is that trans has only recently become a recognised topic. Also when I was a youngster gays were rarely mentioned except in a totally derisory, insulting way. Even as recently as 20/30 years ago being gay was looked upon as being a bit of a joke. Still is in some circles. My point is that gay and trans are not the same thing and, whilst we can support each other, we should not be lumped under the same umbrella. I'm not being dismissive or intolerant but it sounds as if my 'critics' might be. I might also add that intersexed [Hermaphrodite] is a physical condition and different to trans. | |||
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"Years ago trans people may have existed but were rarely heard of. Perhaps got a mention in the more sensationalist Sunday newspapers. Nowadays it has become more of an issue with more and more people claiming to be trans. So if there are more then why can't they have their own groups, societies, communities, sports etc instead of latching onto, infiltrating and taking over LGB? Oh Dear 👎 Oh dear indeed! Trans people have been around in numbers for hundreds of years. More recently. In 1930s Berlin a so called Scientific study group was set up in Berlin to study us. A grand building was used to do so. It was all set up in the El Dorado area. This small neighbourhood was filled with bars and clubs. There was Gay people, Trans, Intersex. All trying to enjoy life together. Without the need to be derogatory about each other. As the 1930s progressed and the Nazis took power. Most of these people were rounded up and ended up being experimented on in the camps. Around 600 in the El Dorado area alone. Eventually to be murdered. People don't realise that being transgender isn't a recent thing. But it doesn't stop them having inaccurate opinions about such things. Talk about getting the wrong end of the stick. Firstly I never claimed trans people never existed. Just not heard of or at least not much about. A distant cousin of mine married [illegally at the time] a transwoman in the '60s] I wasn't supposed to know. What I was saying is that trans has only recently become a recognised topic. Also when I was a youngster gays were rarely mentioned except in a totally derisory, insulting way. Even as recently as 20/30 years ago being gay was looked upon as being a bit of a joke. Still is in some circles. My point is that gay and trans are not the same thing and, whilst we can support each other, we should not be lumped under the same umbrella. I'm not being dismissive or intolerant but it sounds as if my 'critics' might be. I might also add that intersexed [Hermaphrodite] is a physical condition and different to trans." As far as intersex is concerned. We no longer call it hermaphrodite as its considered offensive. I should know as I'm intersex. Your message was an unsubtle dig. Inferring that transgenderism is on the rise because of press coverage etc. All I'm saying is you're wrong. Like lots of Gay men on here. People like us seem a big worry? Don't try and teach others about Trans and Intersex history. You seem very out of touch. With probably the last 100 years. But you do admit to getting your knowledge about trans intersex people out of the Sunday newspapers. No comments about the 1930s etc? Haven't they written about that in the Sunday newspapers? Do you think that being a lesbian is the same thing as being a gay man? I am very hopeful that all of us outside the G in the LGBTQI .. Will get to have our places away from the Gs as it seems that. We aren't wanted on here for instance. The amount of nasty messages I get from Gay men is quite astonishing. Oddly enough they all seem to have little beards. Which is hilarious! No I'm not homophobic. I just don't think sending people abusive messages is even slightly acceptable. | |||
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"I'm probably going to be told I am wrong but to me LGB is about sexual preference whilst T is a gender issue." That's more or less how I feel about it. | |||
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"I'm probably going to be told I am wrong but to me LGB is about sexual preference whilst T is a gender issue. That's more or less how I feel about it. " That's nice. So much confusion! But you are of course entitled to your opinion. | |||
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" My point is that gay and trans are not the same thing and, whilst we can support each other, we should not be lumped under the same umbrella. I'm not being dismissive or intolerant but it sounds as if my 'critics' might be. I might also add that intersexed [Hermaphrodite] is a physical condition and different to trans. As far as intersex is concerned. We no longer call it hermaphrodite as its considered offensive. I should know as I'm intersex. Your message was an unsubtle dig. Inferring that transgenderism is on the rise because of press coverage etc. All I'm saying is you're wrong. Like lots of Gay men on here. People like us seem a big worry? Don't try and teach others about Trans and Intersex history. You seem very out of touch. With probably the last 100 years. But you do admit to getting your knowledge about trans intersex people out of the Sunday newspapers. No comments about the 1930s etc? Haven't they written about that in the Sunday newspapers? Do you think that being a lesbian is the same thing as being a gay man? I am very hopeful that all of us outside the G in the LGBTQI .. Will get to have our places away from the Gs as it seems that. We aren't wanted on here for instance. The amount of nasty messages I get from Gay men is quite astonishing. Oddly enough they all seem to have little beards. Which is hilarious! No I'm not homophobic. I just don't think sending people abusive messages is even slightly acceptable. " Firstly to make it absolutely clear to anyone reading this thread, I have never sent any abusive message to anyone on this site. I cannot send a polite reply to the poster who sent me a private message because they blocked me. If I could have it would not have been abusive. I did not comment about the situation in Germany in the 1930s because I know very little about it where trans were concerned. I know there was a very vibrant what we would call a LGBT++ scene in Berlin and other big cities during the years of the Weimar Republic, and that it was crush during the Nazi era. I do know that various experiments were carried out on gay men, such as castration, by Nazi scientists. A bit similar to the current day Iranian regime offering gay men a choice of changing sex rather than imprisonment even though they may not be trans. I'm not condemning or criticising anyone but the fact remains gay and trans are in reality separate things. One is about sexual preference and the other is a gender issue. Let's face it some transwomen have entered into lesbian relationships after full genital surgery. So hardly gay. Like it or not trans was not a subject talked about up until the last few years. I still doubt that many people know a transperson. I've known three--2 transwomen and one transman. By contrast I guess most people in the world have met or know LGB people. Unless they are obvious you cannot tell. Two years ago, during a sort of general conversation, I 'admitted' to a friend of some 35 years standing, that I was gay. She was a bit surprised but not shocked. Said it explained a few things. Has not affected our friendship one bit. | |||
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" My point is that gay and trans are not the same thing and, whilst we can support each other, we should not be lumped under the same umbrella. I'm not being dismissive or intolerant but it sounds as if my 'critics' might be. I might also add that intersexed [Hermaphrodite] is a physical condition and different to trans. As far as intersex is concerned. We no longer call it hermaphrodite as its considered offensive. I should know as I'm intersex. Your message was an unsubtle dig. Inferring that transgenderism is on the rise because of press coverage etc. All I'm saying is you're wrong. Like lots of Gay men on here. People like us seem a big worry? Don't try and teach others about Trans and Intersex history. You seem very out of touch. With probably the last 100 years. But you do admit to getting your knowledge about trans intersex people out of the Sunday newspapers. No comments about the 1930s etc? Haven't they written about that in the Sunday newspapers? Do you think that being a lesbian is the same thing as being a gay man? I am very hopeful that all of us outside the G in the LGBTQI .. Will get to have our places away from the Gs as it seems that. We aren't wanted on here for instance. The amount of nasty messages I get from Gay men is quite astonishing. Oddly enough they all seem to have little beards. Which is hilarious! No I'm not homophobic. I just don't think sending people abusive messages is even slightly acceptable. Firstly to make it absolutely clear to anyone reading this thread, I have never sent any abusive message to anyone on this site. I cannot send a polite reply to the poster who sent me a private message because they blocked me. If I could have it would not have been abusive. I did not comment about the situation in Germany in the 1930s because I know very little about it where trans were concerned. I know there was a very vibrant what we would call a LGBT++ scene in Berlin and other big cities during the years of the Weimar Republic, and that it was crush during the Nazi era. I do know that various experiments were carried out on gay men, such as castration, by Nazi scientists. A bit similar to the current day Iranian regime offering gay men a choice of changing sex rather than imprisonment even though they may not be trans. I'm not condemning or criticising anyone but the fact remains gay and trans are in reality separate things. One is about sexual preference and the other is a gender issue. Let's face it some transwomen have entered into lesbian relationships after full genital surgery. So hardly gay. Like it or not trans was not a subject talked about up until the last few years. I still doubt that many people know a transperson. I've known three--2 transwomen and one transman. By contrast I guess most people in the world have met or know LGB people. Unless they are obvious you cannot tell. Two years ago, during a sort of general conversation, I 'admitted' to a friend of some 35 years standing, that I was gay. She was a bit surprised but not shocked. Said it explained a few things. Has not affected our friendship one bit." Yes it can be confusing I agree. As there are many variations upon a theme. So you can't really judge a whole group of people on only one or two of your own personal experiences. Many trans people don't venture outdoors very often. Because of fear of being judged and ridiculed. That's why there aren't many gals to be seen. As we know, gender and sex. Are two different things. But sexually the similarities when it comes to sex are very obvious. I do know lots of trans and Intersex people across a few countries. Many feel like I do. I have some very excellent Gay friends. But I also have a problem with some who are openly verbal and even try to be aggressive against us. As you said before you got most of your knowledge about us from the Sunday newspapers. Not a reliable source. The news is. Most of my friends who are trans and Intersex use this site to keep in touch with their circle of friends. We would dearly love to have our own site. I'm sure in the future we shall. But in the meantime we have to put up with the abuse to be on here. It doesn't happen to every girl on here. But it does happen. So all the Gay men that have a problem with us please note. We aren't homophobic. We aren't afraid of you. We will be gone soon and we can't wait to be on our own site. Then you can all find some other little thing to be nasty about. No more nasty messages please. | |||
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"I’ve heard one or trans women say that the reason many gay men don’t like them, is because they feel the trans people are pinching their men. " That doesn't even make sense, a homosexual wouldn't even fancy a "Trans Woman" | |||
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"Why does anyone need a label! its 2026 FFS. We have the laws in place. Just live and let live!!!!!" Go to your local supermarket and find every item in plain packaging with no writing or description. You might change your mind. Like it or not we are all different and all have our likes and dislikes. Not a case of 'one unisex size fits all'. Labels are handy because then we know what we are getting and, unless you are outstandingly unique, we all fall into one slot or another. | |||
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"I’ve heard one or trans women say that the reason many gay men don’t like them, is because they feel the trans people are pinching their men. That doesn't even make sense, a homosexual wouldn't even fancy a "Trans Woman"" Are you sure of that ? Plenty go for TVs in the saunas when they get the chance But then it depends if you define homosexuality according to what emotional feelings a man has, or what sexual practices he indulges in. | |||
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"There should be no LGBTQ etc period the only words there should be is i am a human being. X" This! Thank you! Couldn't have put it any better!! | |||
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"I’ve heard one or trans women say that the reason many gay men don’t like them, is because they feel the trans people are pinching their men. That doesn't even make sense, a homosexual wouldn't even fancy a "Trans Woman" Are you sure of that ? Plenty go for TVs in the saunas when they get the chance But then it depends if you define homosexuality according to what emotional feelings a man has, or what sexual practices he indulges in. " A TV is still a man, so the sexual practice is still homosexual, think what's left once the frock and the wig come off | |||
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"I’ve heard one or trans women say that the reason many gay men don’t like them, is because they feel the trans people are pinching their men. That doesn't even make sense, a homosexual wouldn't even fancy a "Trans Woman" Are you sure of that ? Plenty go for TVs in the saunas when they get the chance But then it depends if you define homosexuality according to what emotional feelings a man has, or what sexual practices he indulges in. " How do you know they are gay and not bi? I dont think a gay guy would go for someone who looks like a woman tbh. Sounds more bi to me. | |||
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"Definitely! When I started going up to gay bars in Glasgow in 1994, they were gay bars! For homosexual men and lesbian women. I have absolutely nothing in common with the sex changers or drag artists. Forcing the two groups, who have nothing in common, together is like merging a trainspotters club with a rugby club. " I agree there are synergies in campaigning together but as opposed sats there are gender issues "T" and there are sexual preferences. I have not seen much discrimination re openly gay people. Where I have seen people ridiculed is where they are straight married but having affairs. Women in particular have been openly judgemental. And I have seen people avoid transexuals, (treat them as minefields to be avoided.) On the basis that if they can separate one group they will do it to all eventually I can see the argument for sticking together but that's minority rights and anti discrimination That should be a human thing ? On that basis do we. Need a lgb group at all? | |||
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"Definitely! When I started going up to gay bars in Glasgow in 1994, they were gay bars! For homosexual men and lesbian women. I have absolutely nothing in common with the sex changers or drag artists. Forcing the two groups, who have nothing in common, together is like merging a trainspotters club with a rugby club. I agree there are synergies in campaigning together but as opposed sats there are gender issues "T" and there are sexual preferences. I have not seen much discrimination re openly gay people. Where I have seen people ridiculed is where they are straight married but having affairs. Women in particular have been openly judgemental. And I have seen people avoid transexuals, (treat them as minefields to be avoided.) On the basis that if they can separate one group they will do it to all eventually I can see the argument for sticking together but that's minority rights and anti discrimination That should be a human thing ? On that basis do we. Need a lgb group at all? " Not really ,the hard works been done . | |||
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"Definitely! When I started going up to gay bars in Glasgow in 1994, they were gay bars! For homosexual men and lesbian women. I have absolutely nothing in common with the sex changers or drag artists. Forcing the two groups, who have nothing in common, together is like merging a trainspotters club with a rugby club. I agree there are synergies in campaigning together but as opposed sats there are gender issues "T" and there are sexual preferences. I have not seen much discrimination re openly gay people. Where I have seen people ridiculed is where they are straight married but having affairs. Women in particular have been openly judgemental. And I have seen people avoid transexuals, (treat them as minefields to be avoided.) On the basis that if they can separate one group they will do it to all eventually I can see the argument for sticking together but that's minority rights and anti discrimination That should be a human thing ? On that basis do we. Need a lgb group at all? " There is now a nationwide group called the LGB Alliance. Mostly based in big cities but growing. Condemned by LGBT+++ of course but that was inevitable. I've had some dealings with the group although not an actual member as yet. On their mailing list. They are not anti-trans as they have been accused of. | |||
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"Definitely! When I started going up to gay bars in Glasgow in 1994, they were gay bars! For homosexual men and lesbian women. I have absolutely nothing in common with the sex changers or drag artists. Forcing the two groups, who have nothing in common, together is like merging a trainspotters club with a rugby club. I agree there are synergies in campaigning together but as opposed sats there are gender issues "T" and there are sexual preferences. I have not seen much discrimination re openly gay people. Where I have seen people ridiculed is where they are straight married but having affairs. Women in particular have been openly judgemental. And I have seen people avoid transexuals, (treat them as minefields to be avoided.) On the basis that if they can separate one group they will do it to all eventually I can see the argument for sticking together but that's minority rights and anti discrimination That should be a human thing ? On that basis do we. Need a lgb group at all? There is now a nationwide group called the LGB Alliance. Mostly based in big cities but growing. Condemned by LGBT+++ of course but that was inevitable. I've had some dealings with the group although not an actual member as yet. On their mailing list. They are not anti-trans as they have been accused of." Do they mail out directly from 55 Tufton Street? | |||
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"Definitely! When I started going up to gay bars in Glasgow in 1994, they were gay bars! For homosexual men and lesbian women. I have absolutely nothing in common with the sex changers or drag artists. Forcing the two groups, who have nothing in common, together is like merging a trainspotters club with a rugby club. I agree there are synergies in campaigning together but as opposed sats there are gender issues "T" and there are sexual preferences. I have not seen much discrimination re openly gay people. Where I have seen people ridiculed is where they are straight married but having affairs. Women in particular have been openly judgemental. And I have seen people avoid transexuals, (treat them as minefields to be avoided.) On the basis that if they can separate one group they will do it to all eventually I can see the argument for sticking together but that's minority rights and anti discrimination That should be a human thing ? On that basis do we. Need a lgb group at all? There is now a nationwide group called the LGB Alliance. Mostly based in big cities but growing. Condemned by LGBT+++ of course but that was inevitable. I've had some dealings with the group although not an actual member as yet. On their mailing list. They are not anti-trans as they have been accused of. Do they mail out directly from 55 Tufton Street?" Gay bars in 1994! No Trans people? There's been Trans people about, at least since the turn of the century. Maybe you are getting a little mixed up with your times? Scotland has been full of crossdressers for years. The Germans called them the ladies from hell. As they wore skirts on the battlefields. Lots of people who I know won't go into gay bars because of the transphobia. Shame so many Gordon's have mental health problems about it. We should be able to get on together OK. | |||
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" There is now a nationwide group called the LGB Alliance. Mostly based in big cities but growing. Condemned by LGBT+++ of course but that was inevitable. I've had some dealings with the group although not an actual member as yet. On their mailing list. They are not anti-trans as they have been accused of. Do they mail out directly from 55 Tufton Street?" Propaganda put about by the left-leaning LGBT+++ groups that LGB Alliance is a right-wing group. They have no political allegiance and have had MPs from across the political divide attend and speak at their meeting, rallies and events. Like I said they are not anti-trans. Just don't have anything in common with them or feel any real affinity with them. The LGBT+++ group has got too big and embraced too many things which are not connected. Bit like saying because you eat food you must embrace meat eating, vegetarianism and veganism. Or if you are a football fan then surely you must love darts and tiddlywinks because they are regarded as sports. | |||
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"Definitely! When I started going up to gay bars in Glasgow in 1994, they were gay bars! For homosexual men and lesbian women. I have absolutely nothing in common with the sex changers or drag artists. Forcing the two groups, who have nothing in common, together is like merging a trainspotters club with a rugby club. I agree there are synergies in campaigning together but as opposed sats there are gender issues "T" and there are sexual preferences. I have not seen much discrimination re openly gay people. Where I have seen people ridiculed is where they are straight married but having affairs. Women in particular have been openly judgemental. And I have seen people avoid transexuals, (treat them as minefields to be avoided.) On the basis that if they can separate one group they will do it to all eventually I can see the argument for sticking together but that's minority rights and anti discrimination That should be a human thing ? On that basis do we. Need a lgb group at all? There is now a nationwide group called the LGB Alliance. Mostly based in big cities but growing. Condemned by LGBT+++ of course but that was inevitable. I've had some dealings with the group although not an actual member as yet. On their mailing list. They are not anti-trans as they have been accused of. Do they mail out directly from 55 Tufton Street? Gay bars in 1994! No Trans people? There's been Trans people about, at least since the turn of the century. Maybe you are getting a little mixed up with your times? Scotland has been full of crossdressers for years. The Germans called them the ladies from hell. As they wore skirts on the battlefields. Lots of people who I know won't go into gay bars because of the transphobia. Shame so many Gordon's have mental health problems about it. We should be able to get on together OK." Do you actually know the difference between a trans person and a crossdresser? | |||
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"It's quite simple. Don't send me offensive statements. Don't try and contact when you are blocked. You know who you are. " If they are blocked, they can't send you any messages, offensive or otherwise. | |||
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"It's quite simple. Don't send me offensive statements. Don't try and contact when you are blocked. You know who you are. If they are blocked, they can't send you any messages, offensive or otherwise. " Oh now you've shattered that illusion. Or is it delusion? Confabulation? Wishful thinking? Attention seeking? | |||
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"It's quite simple. Don't send me offensive statements. Don't try and contact when you are blocked. You know who you are. If they are blocked, they can't send you any messages, offensive or otherwise. " It does seem that there is a lack of understanding about the rules. Blocked means no direct or indirect messages. | |||
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"Perhaps it should all be changed to The Pride community. What community? People keep on about an LGBT+++ community but does it really exist? Perhaps in a few exclusive circles but not generally. Back in the mid '70s, when I first made discreet ventures into the then 'scene, there was an uneasy alliance between gays and lesbians. More of a tolerance because we were both after the same thing. At the time 'gay rights' were limited. You had to be 21 to have sex, no same-sex marriage or recognised partnerships, plus you could still be dismissed from a job just for being gay. The word bisexual was rarely used and trans was something you read about on Sundays in The People or News of the World. Rights have improved tremendously but very little in the way of a community. Well I agree to a certain extent. My suggestion was mainly using the word Pride, per se. Nothing serious. ". Why pride? Where did that come from? Shouldn't we all be proud. Straight, gay, bisexual etc, old, young, | |||
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"It's quite simple. Don't send me offensive statements. Don't try and contact when you are blocked. You know who you are. If they are blocked, they can't send you any messages, offensive or otherwise. It does seem that there is a lack of understanding about the rules. Blocked means no direct or indirect messages. " Are they trying to get at you via telepathy? You should tell someone about that. | |||
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"It's quite simple. Don't send me offensive statements. Don't try and contact when you are blocked. You know who you are. If they are blocked, they can't send you any messages, offensive or otherwise. It does seem that there is a lack of understanding about the rules. Blocked means no direct or indirect messages. " Then you’ll want to stop contributing to this thread and answering back to all the profiles you’ve blocked to abide by the rules then. | |||
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"It's quite simple. Don't send me offensive statements. Don't try and contact when you are blocked. You know who you are. If they are blocked, they can't send you any messages, offensive or otherwise. It does seem that there is a lack of understanding about the rules. Blocked means no direct or indirect messages. " The software and admin guys do a great job, but they can't control the voices inside your head. | |||
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"Not over sure who the Gordons are. Anything to do with the Gay Gordons? Men dancing in kilts which are traditional Scottish male clothing and not skirts? Jilted John sang about Gordon being a moron but we assume he was straight. Surely the whole point of this thread is that LGB [people who are attracted to and have sex with people of the same sex as themselves] are not the same as Trans [people who wish and strive to be the opposite gender to which they were born] plus some of the other letter now added are a bit meaningless and little to do with sexual desire or persuasion." I totally agree. The whole point of this thread is that LGB — people who are attracted to and have sex with people of the same sex as themselves — are clearly NOT the same as Trans! Conflating the two groups ignores the distinction between sexual orientation and gender identity. Sexual orientation is about who you’re attracted to. Being trans is about gender identity, not sexual desire. Lumping them together under one umbrella has always been a political move, not a logical one. And some of the other letters now added to the acronym are even further removed — they’re often about identity labels or subcultures that have little to do with sexual desire or persuasion. If the goal is clarity and shared interests, then the categories should be based on common experience, not just an ever-expanding list. | |||
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"Not over sure who the Gordons are. Anything to do with the Gay Gordons? Men dancing in kilts which are traditional Scottish male clothing and not skirts? Jilted John sang about Gordon being a moron but we assume he was straight. Surely the whole point of this thread is that LGB [people who are attracted to and have sex with people of the same sex as themselves] are not the same as Trans [people who wish and strive to be the opposite gender to which they were born] plus some of the other letter now added are a bit meaningless and little to do with sexual desire or persuasion." I obviously disagree. As I'm an intersex person. I do tend to feel I'm not meaningless. There's a few of us about! The Gordon's thing is really very accurately put don't you think? As me and my friends tend to get a disproportionate amount of negative comments from them. North of the boarder. However I'm glad you made the connection. The Gordon's nickname is quite often used in the clubs and bars mostly in the South. I've even heard it in a Lesbian club, a friend of mine runs in Hackney. Thank you for your intelligent response. Which is tending to be rather infrequent on this forum thread. It's not as offensive as being called a tranny! But who knows? | |||
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"Quick point: Where are on here as gay or bi men and that is not a sexual preference it's a sexual orientation - it's a protected characteristic. Sexual preference is where you like being whipped with stinging nettles and covered in custard during sex. Your sexual orientation determines the sex of the person who is doing the whipping and custard pouring." Very interesting. Possibly nail on head. | |||
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Your right to be yourself takes nothing away from me.
If they make us drop the T, they'll tell us to drop the B. If we drop the T and the B, next is L. Then they'll suppress the G.
We're stronger together. Your loss is my loss.
Let them eat Alphabet Soup and gag on it.
These letters shouldn't exist, we're all human... Sure, but they exist because we are not seen as equal humans by some loud idiots
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"...I stand by my trans brothers and sisters. Same fight for the same rights… " No! It’s not. Which is the whole point about this debate - and the division it causes. And what some people scream about as their “rights” are simply not rights, just entitlements which are certainly not agreed… I’m old enough to have fought alongside women for them to have access to their own safe spaces based on their sex knowing that men cannot access them. I’m happy to be in an acronym with people who are born one sex and consider themselves the others and want to represent themselves as such. I simply don’t want to be in the same acronym as anyone who thinks they should be entitled to access a woman’s space which is based on sex when they are not a woman by sex but happen to consider themselves one. Saying no to this does not equal transphobia. Until we understand this, we’re royally fucked. | |||
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"...I stand by my trans brothers and sisters. Same fight for the same rights… No! It’s not. Which is the whole point about this debate - and the division it causes. And what some people scream about as their “rights” are simply not rights, just entitlements which are certainly not agreed… I’m old enough to have fought alongside women for them to have access to their own safe spaces based on their sex knowing that men cannot access them. I’m happy to be in an acronym with people who are born one sex and consider themselves the others and want to represent themselves as such. I simply don’t want to be in the same acronym as anyone who thinks they should be entitled to access a woman’s space which is based on sex when they are not a woman by sex but happen to consider themselves one. Saying no to this does not equal transphobia. Until we understand this, we’re royally fucked. " Just curious...would someone who has undergone full transition, hormones surgery, be included as being able to access a woman's space? Or would they only be available to those who are female at birth? Its something I have had very little experience,knowledge, or exposure to, so I'm curious if it is very specific issues that are contentious. | |||
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"...Just curious...would someone who has undergone full transition, hormones surgery, be included as being able to access a woman's space? Or would they only be available to those who are female at birth? Its something I have had very little experience,knowledge, or exposure to, so I'm curious if it is very specific issues that are contentious…" In my opinion: yes. You have given up being male and have made a full transition, undergone surgery, etc. The fact you were born a man is not contentious in that circumstance. It’s never the small number of full trans-women whom women resent in their sexual space. It’s the others who identity, but may identify differently tomorrow, and are fully intact as men. But the T in all the official LGBTQ++++++++ is transfixed as stating that *anyone* who wants to term themselves as trans has an entitlement to access these women only spaces and can consider themselves a woman in every regard. This is their ‘great fight’. This is the Stonewall agenda. You’re a hideous transphobe if you don’t agree and have to sit on the naughty TERF step with JK Rowling etc etc. It’s such bunkum. I don’t want anything to do with it. | |||
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"Trans people were there for US, we should be there for them. No Ifs, No Buts. Besides as a QUEER, Not Gay, Bear someone's gender isn't as important to me as how I interact with them. You don't whinge about the packaging if you like what's inside. " Revisionist history elevates the contribution of trans people in gay liberation. Telling a same-sex attracted person that they are being transphobic for not wishing to include trans people in their dating pool is as homophobic as a Christian fundamentalist attempting to engage in conversion therapy. Your sexuality isn't universal. Your consent isn't transferable. | |||
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