 | Back to forum list |
| Back to The Lounge |
| Jump to newest |  |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Who wants independent Scotland ?" I’d be sad to see the union split, but I do sometimes wonder whether Scotland's chances of gaining independence would actually be helped by making the vote UK-wide.  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Scotland voted against Independence the last time. It was billed as 'once in a generation'. SNP didn't get a mandate at the recent election so the people still don't want it. Move on and spend the money on NHS waiting lists, education and poverty." This exactly. Despite losing 55/45 previously, It’s like some want to keep voting until they get their way. Best of 3, 5, 7…..? They can have another vote for all I care, but next time They can pay for it ! If UK/British have to stump up for their whim again, Everyone should get a vote. As someone above suggested, may well get a different outcome…..? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I'm from a Labour heartland but voted Plaid Cymru this time. I do wonder the more our values diverge will it cause the break up of the Union? Will it cause a groundswell for Wales if England turns more to Reform? I read somewhere Spain keeps an eye on Scotland due to Catalonia. " Oh shit....we might need dogging visa to go cross border!! | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Give them independence, but first they must repay us for bailing them out of the Darian scheme which almost bankrupt them, hence why they joined the union. Oh, repay at today's value." In terms of economic wealth / share of GDP today that’s about £6.5 Billion. You could probably still buy Panama for that amount of money. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Who wants independent Scotland ? I’d be sad to see the union split, but I do sometimes wonder whether Scotland's chances of gaining independence would actually be helped by making the vote UK-wide. "And re building Hadrians wall? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Who wants independent Scotland ?" Scottish independence is a matter for the people of Scotland so nothing to do with me. However my preference would be for England to leave the union and let the remainder make their own minds up as to stay or leave. I think that the Union has had its day, it served us well but now is the time for it to cease. The world has seen and lived through many Empires and Unions. Some bits good some bits bad, but tis not for me to judge only to learn. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Who wants independent Scotland ?" Most of England | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Scotland voted against Independence the last time. It was billed as 'once in a generation'. SNP didn't get a mandate at the recent election so the people still don't want it. Move on and spend the money on NHS waiting lists, education and poverty." I didn't say it was a once in a generation vote. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Who wants independent Scotland ? I’d be sad to see the union split, but I do sometimes wonder whether Scotland's chances of gaining independence would actually be helped by making the vote UK-wide.
And re building Hadrians wall?"Definitely not. That would mean giving a little bit of Cumbria and about 70% of Northumbria to Scotland, and that would never do. Looking at Scottish voting patterns you might get away with rebuilding the Antonine Wall | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Who wants independent Scotland ? Most of England "  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Strange how england wont lets the scottish go mabee something to do with they pay more in than they get back " Its not England's gift, or decision. It is a decision for the Scottish people, and it is Westminster, the seat of government for the entire United kingdom, including scotland, who directs the ship. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Who wants independent Scotland ?" The United Kingdom is at its best when England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland stand together as one nation. The fact is our strong British union gives every citizen more security, more opportunity, and more influence than any of us could have alone. By sharing one defense, one market, and one voice in the world, we protect families from Belfast to Cardiff, Glasgow to London, without bearing the cost four times over. Trade flows freely across our borders, jobs are created, and resources are pooled so that no region is left to face hardship alone. The NHS, pensions, and public services are stronger because we fund them together. Our shared history binds us through law, language, and culture. That connection lets us act with the weight of 67 million people on the global stage. When Britain speaks, the world listens. Breaking that bond would mean new borders, new costs, and a weaker voice at exactly the moment unity matters most. Keeping the United Kingdom whole is how we keep every part of it stronger, safer, and more prosperous. That is why our union remains the most successful political and economic alliance of our time, and why our future should remain undivided. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Don't want it, what has SNP done for Scotland, nothing. Cities are falling to pieces, derelict and closed shops everywhere. NHS and schools not much better, and these are things that were devolved, so can't blame the UK government for that, although John Swinney might" Wales is sailing the same failing course. Welsh Labour had devolved powers for decades and ran us into the ground, and now Plaid’s taken the wheel. New face, same failure - just a different person at the wheel steering the same disastrous drift, getting nowhere fast. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"No to independence…..Scottish guys are hot hot hot!!" ... ... It would make us even hotter. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"No to independence…..Scottish guys are hot hot hot!! ... ... It would make us even hotter. "  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"What if the boot was on the other foot and England decided to have a referendum for independence from the rest of the UK. How would the rest of the union feel about being left as a 'threesome'" We'd have a 'Celtic alliance' re join the EU and use euros. We'd probably muck in with England if Britain was attacked.  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"What if the boot was on the other foot and England decided to have a referendum for independence from the rest of the UK. How would the rest of the union feel about being left as a 'threesome' We'd have a 'Celtic alliance' re join the EU and use euros. We'd probably muck in with England if Britain was attacked. "In which case I'd very much like to be Welsh  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Al is back. " Indeed - note the Americanism "defense" | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"What if the boot was on the other foot and England decided to have a referendum for independence from the rest of the UK. How would the rest of the union feel about being left as a 'threesome' We'd have a 'Celtic alliance' re join the EU and use euros. We'd probably muck in with England if Britain was attacked.
In which case I'd very much like to be Welsh "💋 | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I'm fairly indifferent on the subject of of Scottish independence. If the vast majority from every Scottish region wanted it then fair enough but not convinced they do. Indy2 would probably produce a similar result to Indy1, give or take a couple of percent. Thing is what would they gain? Possible different Head of State if they chose to become a republic. Looking at potential political heads of state it would probably be some glum grey suit. Own foreign policy: Probably not much different to ours. A string of foreign embassies in Edinburgh and a string of expensive Scottish embassies around the world. Own defence policy: Messy divorce from the UK armed forces and not much achievement. Border posts along the Cheviots? Endless rows about who owns the North Sea oilfields Re-join the EU although it looks like the whole of the UK is sneaking back in. Not much gain for the ordinary Scotsman or Scotswoman. My biggest concern would be that that it would give some people here in Wales silly ideas now that Ronnie Edwardson Jones aka Rhun ap Iorwerth is Whineydog." What we would gain is an end to bent gerrymandered hard right Westminster governments elected by the English electorate and we'd be able to vote in, and as importantly, vote out, governments. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I'm fairly indifferent on the subject of of Scottish independence. If the vast majority from every Scottish region wanted it then fair enough but not convinced they do. Indy2 would probably produce a similar result to Indy1, give or take a couple of percent. Thing is what would they gain? Possible different Head of State if they chose to become a republic. Looking at potential political heads of state it would probably be some glum grey suit. Own foreign policy: Probably not much different to ours. A string of foreign embassies in Edinburgh and a string of expensive Scottish embassies around the world. Own defence policy: Messy divorce from the UK armed forces and not much achievement. Border posts along the Cheviots? Endless rows about who owns the North Sea oilfields Re-join the EU although it looks like the whole of the UK is sneaking back in. Not much gain for the ordinary Scotsman or Scotswoman. My biggest concern would be that that it would give some people here in Wales silly ideas now that Ronnie Edwardson Jones aka Rhun ap Iorwerth is Whineydog. What we would gain is an end to bent gerrymandered hard right Westminster governments elected by the English electorate and we'd be able to vote in, and as importantly, vote out, governments." Is that as opposed to the bent Edinburgh one that you seem to find impossible to change? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Last week's Scottish parliamentary election may have returned an SNP government but with a reduce number of seats and slightly reduced percentage of the vote. So probably no great call for independence at the moment. Doubt the Westminster government will endorse an Indy2 anytime soon and even doubt the result would be a lot different to last time." I wish Westminster would grant another Scottish Referendum on independence right now. The majority of people living in Scotland with the right to vote, would vote again to remain. Scots are slowly but surely being bred out to distinction, and those married Scots choose only to have 1 or 2 kids whilst all incomers breed in vast numbers. Very soon Scots will be the least of Scotland's population No more ochhh aye the nooo, Jimmy | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Don't want it, what has SNP done for Scotland, nothing. Cities are falling to pieces, derelict and closed shops everywhere. NHS and schools not much better, and these are things that were devolved, so can't blame the UK government for that, although John Swinney might" Well said, I fully agree | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I'm fairly indifferent on the subject of of Scottish independence. If the vast majority from every Scottish region wanted it then fair enough but not convinced they do. Indy2 would probably produce a similar result to Indy1, give or take a couple of percent. Thing is what would they gain? Possible different Head of State if they chose to become a republic. Looking at potential political heads of state it would probably be some glum grey suit. Own foreign policy: Probably not much different to ours. A string of foreign embassies in Edinburgh and a string of expensive Scottish embassies around the world. Own defence policy: Messy divorce from the UK armed forces and not much achievement. Border posts along the Cheviots? Endless rows about who owns the North Sea oilfields Re-join the EU although it looks like the whole of the UK is sneaking back in. Not much gain for the ordinary Scotsman or Scotswoman. My biggest concern would be that that it would give some people here in Wales silly ideas now that Ronnie Edwardson Jones aka Rhun ap Iorwerth is Whineydog. What we would gain is an end to bent gerrymandered hard right Westminster governments elected by the English electorate and we'd be able to vote in, and as importantly, vote out, governments. Is that as opposed to the bent Edinburgh one that you seem to find impossible to change?" ... ... Bent? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"SNP has done f all for Scotland makes me sick all the benefit cheats etc and Irish brigade vote for them put a monkey up for the snp they would vote for it fucking hate them ." What "Irish Brigade"? Are these mythical Irish Brigade in the room with you now? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Don't think it will ever happen, thankfully!" Oh it will. It may be still be some time in the future, but it will happen..when the 16 to 18 Yr olds of today have reached their middle years, then their children will regard it as completely normal to be an independent nation. It's just a question of when .. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Don't think it will ever happen, thankfully! Oh it will. It may be still be some time in the future, but it will happen..when the 16 to 18 Yr olds of today have reached their middle years, then their children will regard it as completely normal to be an independent nation. It's just a question of when .." By then we will be an Islamic state. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Don't think it will ever happen, thankfully! Oh it will. It may be still be some time in the future, but it will happen..when the 16 to 18 Yr olds of today have reached their middle years, then their children will regard it as completely normal to be an independent nation. It's just a question of when .. By then we will be an Islamic state." Don't tell me you've lost faith in Nige already? ... | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Yup less drain on Englands coffers" If Scotland is the drain you suggest why then does Westminster keep opposing independence? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Yup less drain on Englands coffers If Scotland is the drain you suggest why then does Westminster keep opposing independence? " Because nobody wants to be part of the government that oversaw the breakup of the UK. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Yup less drain on Englands coffers If Scotland is the drain you suggest why then does Westminster keep opposing independence? " Little droplets of black liquid possibly. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Don't think it will ever happen, thankfully! Oh it will. It may be still be some time in the future, but it will happen..when the 16 to 18 Yr olds of today have reached their middle years, then their children will regard it as completely normal to be an independent nation. It's just a question of when .. By then we will be an Islamic state. Don't tell me you've lost faith in Nige already? ..." SNP LOVE IMMIGRATION ESPECIALLY ISLAMIC | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Yup less drain on Englands coffers If Scotland is the drain you suggest why then does Westminster keep opposing independence? Because nobody wants to be part of the government that oversaw the breakup of the UK." Bit of a feeble excuse. Why not be the government who was strong enough to axe the supposed loss maker? That's the way it would be done in the commercial world. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Yup less drain on Englands coffers If Scotland is the drain you suggest why then does Westminster keep opposing independence? Because nobody wants to be part of the government that oversaw the breakup of the UK. Bit of a feeble excuse. Why not be the government who was strong enough to axe the supposed loss maker? That's the way it would be done in the commercial world. " If it was purely a financial decision, then England would have been the one to want Scotland gone. Same with Wales and Northern Ireland. But countries aren't companies. It's about more than just money. The UK is still considered one of the most powerful and influential nations on the planet. Break that up and the loss of power on the global stage would be catastrophic. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Don't think it will ever happen, thankfully! Oh it will. It may be still be some time in the future, but it will happen..when the 16 to 18 Yr olds of today have reached their middle years, then their children will regard it as completely normal to be an independent nation. It's just a question of when .. By then we will be an Islamic state. Don't tell me you've lost faith in Nige already? ... SNP LOVE IMMIGRATION ESPECIALLY ISLAMIC " Sounds like Plaid Cymru here in Wales. Everyone from anywhere in the world welcome except the English. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Don't think it will ever happen, thankfully! Oh it will. It may be still be some time in the future, but it will happen..when the 16 to 18 Yr olds of today have reached their middle years, then their children will regard it as completely normal to be an independent nation. It's just a question of when .. By then we will be an Islamic state. Don't tell me you've lost faith in Nige already? ... SNP LOVE IMMIGRATION ESPECIALLY ISLAMIC " . So you obviously think Reform ARE a lost cause then ....what a pity ...especially after you joining them last year .... | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Yup less drain on Englands coffers If Scotland is the drain you suggest why then does Westminster keep opposing independence? Because nobody wants to be part of the government that oversaw the breakup of the UK. Bit of a feeble excuse. Why not be the government who was strong enough to axe the supposed loss maker? That's the way it would be done in the commercial world. If it was purely a financial decision, then England would have been the one to want Scotland gone. Same with Wales and Northern Ireland. But countries aren't companies. It's about more than just money. The UK is still considered one of the most powerful and influential nations on the planet. Break that up and the loss of power on the global stage would be catastrophic. " Catastrophic for who? The British Establishment and Upper classes? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Don't think it will ever happen, thankfully! Oh it will. It may be still be some time in the future, but it will happen..when the 16 to 18 Yr olds of today have reached their middle years, then their children will regard it as completely normal to be an independent nation. It's just a question of when .. By then we will be an Islamic state. Don't tell me you've lost faith in Nige already? ... SNP LOVE IMMIGRATION ESPECIALLY ISLAMIC . So you obviously think Reform ARE a lost cause then ....what a pity ...especially after you joining them last year ...." Im a member of a number of parties, it gives me a voice and a vote when it matters | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Yup less drain on Englands coffers If Scotland is the drain you suggest why then does Westminster keep opposing independence? Because nobody wants to be part of the government that oversaw the breakup of the UK. Bit of a feeble excuse. Why not be the government who was strong enough to axe the supposed loss maker? That's the way it would be done in the commercial world. If it was purely a financial decision, then England would have been the one to want Scotland gone. Same with Wales and Northern Ireland. But countries aren't companies. It's about more than just money. The UK is still considered one of the most powerful and influential nations on the planet. Break that up and the loss of power on the global stage would be catastrophic. Catastrophic for who? The British Establishment and Upper classes?" A weakened UK is bad for the world, and bad for the citizens. It's easy to think it would have no effect on the average person, but it would. Especially the Scottish, who may resent the way things are now, but would get exponentially worse if independence actually happened. Everything I hear about Scottish politics is that it's just as dysfunctional as English politics. Do you really trust those people to deliver an independent Scotland that is better off than it is now? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Don't think it will ever happen, thankfully! Oh it will. It may be still be some time in the future, but it will happen..when the 16 to 18 Yr olds of today have reached their middle years, then their children will regard it as completely normal to be an independent nation. It's just a question of when .. By then we will be an Islamic state. Don't tell me you've lost faith in Nige already? ... SNP LOVE IMMIGRATION ESPECIALLY ISLAMIC . So you obviously think Reform ARE a lost cause then ....what a pity ...especially after you joining them last year .... Im a member of a number of parties, it gives me a voice and a vote when it matters " Not sure what the context of all this is, clearly the guy you're talking to is referencing something you said elsewhere. But I have to say, hardly anyone on here is interested in actually talking. It's 95% insults, boring sarcasm, bad faith, and attempts to trick the other person into somehow implicating themselves rather than actually prove them wrong. It's almost as bad as cesspits like Reddit. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"As an English man living in the Midlands and loving Scotland, in fact I'm in Wester Ross now. I think an independent Scotland would be good forScotland. Places like the Isle of Man manage independently. " The Isle of Man is a crown dependency, not an independent nation. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"As an English man living in the Midlands and loving Scotland, in fact I'm in Wester Ross now. I think an independent Scotland would be good forScotland. Places like the Isle of Man manage independently. The Isle of Man is a crown dependency, not an independent nation." What's the difference | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"If SNP got independence it would be open borders, it's bad enough just now but Swinney is a migrant loving twat, isalmic state here we come!!! Migrants bring nothing but increased crime " There's no border between Scotland and England and there's no small boat going to cross from Europe to Scotland | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"As an English man living in the Midlands and loving Scotland, in fact I'm in Wester Ross now. I think an independent Scotland would be good forScotland. Places like the Isle of Man manage independently. The Isle of Man is a crown dependency, not an independent nation. What's the difference " The UK controls their defence and foreign affairs. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"If SNP got independence it would be open borders, it's bad enough just now but Swinney is a migrant loving twat, isalmic state here we come!!! Migrants bring nothing but increased crime There's no border between Scotland and England and there's no small boat going to cross from Europe to Scotland " No, but there likely would be if they were a separate country lol. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"As an English man living in the Midlands and loving Scotland, in fact I'm in Wester Ross now. I think an independent Scotland would be good forScotland. Places like the Isle of Man manage independently. The Isle of Man is a crown dependency, not an independent nation. What's the difference The UK controls their defence and foreign affairs." Same would happen with Scotland | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Don't think it will ever happen, thankfully! Oh it will. It may be still be some time in the future, but it will happen..when the 16 to 18 Yr olds of today have reached their middle years, then their children will regard it as completely normal to be an independent nation. It's just a question of when .. By then we will be an Islamic state. Don't tell me you've lost faith in Nige already? ... SNP LOVE IMMIGRATION ESPECIALLY ISLAMIC . So you obviously think Reform ARE a lost cause then ....what a pity ...especially after you joining them last year .... Im a member of a number of parties, it gives me a voice and a vote when it matters " The Conservative Party rule book prohibits membership of another political party - oops | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"As an English man living in the Midlands and loving Scotland, in fact I'm in Wester Ross now. I think an independent Scotland would be good forScotland. Places like the Isle of Man manage independently. The Isle of Man is a crown dependency, not an independent nation. What's the difference The UK controls their defence and foreign affairs. Same would happen with Scotland " But then they wouldn't be independent... | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"No but they come into England in small boats and are then moved onto Scotland, must be some reason why our migrant population has increased as much and it's the undesirable elements that are here! Not many skilled workers, they work in car washes, deliveroo drivers,and kebab shops, probably working illegally as well. Scotland has enough depravation. Look after our own before picking up the slack from other countries" Same where I am. Dozens of migrant-owned shops that are blatantly fronts for crime. Few real customers, just the owners standing around smoking all day long. Shady characters at the end of my street dealing smack in broad daylight. Among other things. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"As an English man living in the Midlands and loving Scotland, in fact I'm in Wester Ross now. I think an independent Scotland would be good forScotland. Places like the Isle of Man manage independently. The Isle of Man is a crown dependency, not an independent nation. What's the difference The UK controls their defence and foreign affairs. Same would happen with Scotland But then they wouldn't be independent..." The Scottish Parliament has quite extensive powers and, of course, the Scottish Judiciary has always been independent. The 'elephants in the room' have really been nuclear armaments [which the SNP are against] and the EU. Although the Scottish government has considerable power over its own economy it cannot unilaterally re-join the EU. The Isle of Man was never a member of the EU but then again they are not represented in the Westminster parliament. So total independence, autonomy or maintain the status quo? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"As an English man living in the Midlands and loving Scotland, in fact I'm in Wester Ross now. I think an independent Scotland would be good forScotland. Places like the Isle of Man manage independently. The Isle of Man is a crown dependency, not an independent nation. What's the difference The UK controls their defence and foreign affairs. Same would happen with Scotland But then they wouldn't be independent... The Scottish Parliament has quite extensive powers and, of course, the Scottish Judiciary has always been independent. The 'elephants in the room' have really been nuclear armaments [which the SNP are against] and the EU. Although the Scottish government has considerable power over its own economy it cannot unilaterally re-join the EU. The Isle of Man was never a member of the EU but then again they are not represented in the Westminster parliament. So total independence, autonomy or maintain the status quo? " I would imagine that for the independence crowd, anything less than total independence would be a betrayal. And if I was in their shoes I'd agree with them. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"No but they come into England in small boats and are then moved onto Scotland, must be some reason why our migrant population has increased as much and it's the undesirable elements that are here! Not many skilled workers, they work in car washes, deliveroo drivers,and kebab shops, probably working illegally as well. Scotland has enough depravation. Look after our own before picking up the slack from other countries" They come to Scotland, because they are entitled to housing once they get settled status, the councils are legally obliged to house refugees who are unintentionally homeless | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"The SNP should encourage a referendum in England for an independent Scotland - they are far more likely to get it." True, they hate us. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"There’s strength in size and numbers. We massively weakened ourselves with Brexit. Breaking what’s left up even more will just result in a bunch of broadly irrelevant 2nd division countries on the world stage." Thats the way I see it too. I am Scottish. I didn't vote for Brexit or Independence for these reasons. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"There’s strength in size and numbers. We massively weakened ourselves with Brexit. Breaking what’s left up even more will just result in a bunch of broadly irrelevant 2nd division countries on the world stage. Thats the way I see it too. I am Scottish. I didn't vote for Brexit or Independence for these reasons." Staunch separatists don't seem to realise that independence for Scotland would be like Brexit but way, way worse. The grass isn't always greener. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"There’s strength in size and numbers. We massively weakened ourselves with Brexit. Breaking what’s left up even more will just result in a bunch of broadly irrelevant 2nd division countries on the world stage. Thats the way I see it too. I am Scottish. I didn't vote for Brexit or Independence for these reasons. Staunch separatists don't seem to realise that independence for Scotland would be like Brexit but way, way worse. The grass isn't always greener." And staunch nationalists like you don't seem to realise that we don't care....it will be worth in in the medium to long term to live in a democracy | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Who wants independent Scotland ? Most of England " | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"There’s strength in size and numbers. We massively weakened ourselves with Brexit. Breaking what’s left up even more will just result in a bunch of broadly irrelevant 2nd division countries on the world stage. Thats the way I see it too. I am Scottish. I didn't vote for Brexit or Independence for these reasons. Staunch separatists don't seem to realise that independence for Scotland would be like Brexit but way, way worse. The grass isn't always greener. And staunch nationalists like you don't seem to realise that we don't care....it will be worth in in the medium to long term to live in a democracy " I think that's fair. Go into it with your eyes open. If you feel the price to be paid is worth it, then do it. For my part, I think the rUK could make money out of the deal You have to protect your interests just as we do. In the future we will be competitors. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"oh and BTW why have you not got a return ticket,ticket guy askes,lol." Last time I left Glasgow there was a massive fire near the station 20 mins before. Not me Gov, honest * | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"There’s strength in size and numbers. We massively weakened ourselves with Brexit. Breaking what’s left up even more will just result in a bunch of broadly irrelevant 2nd division countries on the world stage. Thats the way I see it too. I am Scottish. I didn't vote for Brexit or Independence for these reasons. Staunch separatists don't seem to realise that independence for Scotland would be like Brexit but way, way worse. The grass isn't always greener. And staunch nationalists like you don't seem to realise that we don't care....it will be worth in in the medium to long term to live in a democracy " You already live in a democracy, stop being so hyperbolic. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"There’s strength in size and numbers. We massively weakened ourselves with Brexit. Breaking what’s left up even more will just result in a bunch of broadly irrelevant 2nd division countries on the world stage. Thats the way I see it too. I am Scottish. I didn't vote for Brexit or Independence for these reasons. Staunch separatists don't seem to realise that independence for Scotland would be like Brexit but way, way worse. The grass isn't always greener. And staunch nationalists like you don't seem to realise that we don't care....it will be worth in in the medium to long term to live in a democracy I think that's fair. Go into it with your eyes open. If you feel the price to be paid is worth it, then do it. For my part, I think the rUK could make money out of the deal You have to protect your interests just as we do. In the future we will be competitors." It would ultimately benefit England more than Scotland. England would get to stop subsidising Scotland, while Scotland would have to find some other way of funding their overspending rather than taking it from English taxpayers. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"There’s strength in size and numbers. We massively weakened ourselves with Brexit. Breaking what’s left up even more will just result in a bunch of broadly irrelevant 2nd division countries on the world stage. Thats the way I see it too. I am Scottish. I didn't vote for Brexit or Independence for these reasons. Staunch separatists don't seem to realise that independence for Scotland would be like Brexit but way, way worse. The grass isn't always greener. And staunch nationalists like you don't seem to realise that we don't care....it will be worth in in the medium to long term to live in a democracy You already live in a democracy, stop being so hyperbolic." No I don't Westminster general elections are openly gerrymandered, this information isn't even hidden, you just have to Google BBC or Wikipedia election results and check the disparity between percentage of votes and Parliamentary seats. Establishment loving toadies Like you are so politically unsophisticated you cannot even comprehend how to do that. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"No but they come into England in small boats and are then moved onto Scotland, must be some reason why our migrant population has increased as much and it's the undesirable elements that are here! Not many skilled workers, they work in car washes, deliveroo drivers,and kebab shops, probably working illegally as well. Scotland has enough depravation. Look after our own before picking up the slack from other countries" It's Laughable, Glasgow has the Highest numbers of immigrants and asylum seekers in the whole of the UK and Glaswegians are too thick and gullible to do anything about it. If you walk down Buchanan Street and city centre it's difficult to actually spot a white person who can actually speak English and huge increase in coloured. Glasgow deserves this, but when they start creeping into the more classier cities such as Perth then that's a different matter as it means they are getting closer to our villages too | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"There’s strength in size and numbers. We massively weakened ourselves with Brexit. Breaking what’s left up even more will just result in a bunch of broadly irrelevant 2nd division countries on the world stage. Thats the way I see it too. I am Scottish. I didn't vote for Brexit or Independence for these reasons. Staunch separatists don't seem to realise that independence for Scotland would be like Brexit but way, way worse. The grass isn't always greener. And staunch nationalists like you don't seem to realise that we don't care....it will be worth in in the medium to long term to live in a democracy You already live in a democracy, stop being so hyperbolic. No I don't Westminster general elections are openly gerrymandered, this information isn't even hidden, you just have to Google BBC or Wikipedia election results and check the disparity between percentage of votes and Parliamentary seats. Establishment loving toadies Like you are so politically unsophisticated you cannot even comprehend how to do that. " Was wondering how long it would take for you to start insulting me when you ran out of points. Stay malding. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"No but they come into England in small boats and are then moved onto Scotland, must be some reason why our migrant population has increased as much and it's the undesirable elements that are here! Not many skilled workers, they work in car washes, deliveroo drivers,and kebab shops, probably working illegally as well. Scotland has enough depravation. Look after our own before picking up the slack from other countries It's Laughable, Glasgow has the Highest numbers of immigrants and asylum seekers in the whole of the UK and Glaswegians are too thick and gullible to do anything about it. If you walk down Buchanan Street and city centre it's difficult to actually spot a white person who can actually speak English and huge increase in coloured. Glasgow deserves this, but when they start creeping into the more classier cities such as Perth then that's a different matter as it means they are getting closer to our villages too" Spot on. With or without independence this problem needs to be addressed. But oh wait, even talking about it makes you a racist apparently. They can enjoy living in a ghetto, I guess. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"SNP and John Swinney can't accept they lost the independence vote.it was a demicratic vote, although they used every trick in the book to influence vote. And again they haven't got a majority in Holyrood but still banging on about jndependence, should get on and fix all the mess they have created. " It's the same with most nationalist movements. The core agenda is independence, driven by a yearning for historic cultures that mostly no longer exist. Plaid are no different here in Wales. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"SNP and John Swinney can't accept they lost the independence vote.it was a demicratic vote, although they used every trick in the book to influence vote. And again they haven't got a majority in Holyrood but still banging on about jndependence, should get on and fix all the mess they have created. It's the same with most nationalist movements. The core agenda is independence, driven by a yearning for historic cultures that mostly no longer exist. Plaid are no different here in Wales. " Honestly in the case of the SNP I don't even think it's that. They bang on about independence because they can use it as a smokescreen to hide how incompetent they are. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"SNP and John Swinney can't accept they lost the independence vote.it was a demicratic vote, although they used every trick in the book to influence vote. And again they haven't got a majority in Holyrood but still banging on about jndependence, should get on and fix all the mess they have created. " For many, democracy is always wonderful until people vote against them. Then suddenly the electorate are stupid knuckledraggers who are voting against their own interests. As you say, the referendum already happened. It was agreed to be by all sides a "once in a generation" thing. Pro-independence lost. The SNP lost. And they've spent the last 12 years complaining about it instead of actually doing anything to improve the lives of Scottish people. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Give them independence, but first they must repay us for bailing them out of the Darian scheme which almost bankrupt them, hence why they joined the union. Oh, repay at today's value." | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It won’t happen Scotland has no industry to generate an economy everybody that was anybody has left the country spreading there wealth else where . Scotland in its stupidity has got its head into this climate change nonsense and cannot get out of it. Its wind farms are a joke planted on some of the most idilic areas of Scotland tourist don’t want to see 300 ft turbines but we’re not allowed to manufacture them in Scotland ,so they ship them halfway around the world it’s a joke as soon as you think the word climate change . Ask SNP who is going to pay pensions , benefits, armed forces they cannot tell you, they have time notion they will walk into the EU which will never happen we’ve nothing to offer them in return, there’s always SNP sabre rattling when the win a election it’s to give false hope to the yes votes that they still have there finger on the pulse of independence." Yep. Without them receiving so much from England, where would Scotland get the money from? Put taxes up through the roof, even higher than they already are? Join the EU and leech off of Germany? Hell, the SNP want to get rid of its nuclear weapons. Right after they do that I'm sure Russia wouldn't mind another vassal state. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Whiskey?" I'm sure with whisky, haggis, and kilt exports, they'll rival Singapore within 10 years at most | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It won’t happen Scotland has no industry to generate an economy everybody that was anybody has left the country spreading there wealth else where . Scotland in its stupidity has got its head into this climate change nonsense and cannot get out of it. Its wind farms are a joke planted on some of the most idilic areas of Scotland tourist don’t want to see 300 ft turbines but we’re not allowed to manufacture them in Scotland ,so they ship them halfway around the world it’s a joke as soon as you think the word climate change . Ask SNP who is going to pay pensions , benefits, armed forces they cannot tell you, they have time notion they will walk into the EU which will never happen we’ve nothing to offer them in return, there’s always SNP sabre rattling when the win a election it’s to give false hope to the yes votes that they still have there finger on the pulse of independence. Yep. Without them receiving so much from England, where would Scotland get the money from? Put taxes up through the roof, even higher than they already are? Join the EU and leech off of Germany? Hell, the SNP want to get rid of its nuclear weapons. Right after they do that I'm sure Russia wouldn't mind another vassal state." We already pay the highest taxes in the uk .. Remember we do pay the Chancellor taxes there nothing comes north without the people of Scotland paying first . You forget a couple of small bits the excess energy we produce via wind power goes via the grid to England, we ship Scottish water to England, Scottish whisky and gin and England ships it’s people to Scotland for a hassle free life . Check out the amount of English born MSPs there are in the Scottish parliament it might surprise you. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It won’t happen Scotland has no industry to generate an economy everybody that was anybody has left the country spreading there wealth else where . Scotland in its stupidity has got its head into this climate change nonsense and cannot get out of it. Its wind farms are a joke planted on some of the most idilic areas of Scotland tourist don’t want to see 300 ft turbines but we’re not allowed to manufacture them in Scotland ,so they ship them halfway around the world it’s a joke as soon as you think the word climate change . Ask SNP who is going to pay pensions , benefits, armed forces they cannot tell you, they have time notion they will walk into the EU which will never happen we’ve nothing to offer them in return, there’s always SNP sabre rattling when the win a election it’s to give false hope to the yes votes that they still have there finger on the pulse of independence. Yep. Without them receiving so much from England, where would Scotland get the money from? Put taxes up through the roof, even higher than they already are? Join the EU and leech off of Germany? Hell, the SNP want to get rid of its nuclear weapons. Right after they do that I'm sure Russia wouldn't mind another vassal state. We already pay the highest taxes in the uk .. Remember we do pay the Chancellor taxes there nothing comes north without the people of Scotland paying first . You forget a couple of small bits the excess energy we produce via wind power goes via the grid to England, we ship Scottish water to England, Scottish whisky and gin and England ships it’s people to Scotland for a hassle free life . Check out the amount of English born MSPs there are in the Scottish parliament it might surprise you." That's what I'm saying. Taxes are already high. Tax money is already misspent. Imagine how bad it would be with the SNP running the show from top to bottom? I appreciate the patriotic desire for independence, I really do, but it doesn't really make much sense when you get into the details. It's a similar thing to Brexit. In theory Brexit could have worked. In practice... uh... lol. In theory Scottish independence makes sense. In practice you can't rely on the Scottish government to change a lightbulb. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It won’t happen Scotland has no industry to generate an economy everybody that was anybody has left the country spreading there wealth else where . Scotland in its stupidity has got its head into this climate change nonsense and cannot get out of it. Its wind farms are a joke planted on some of the most idilic areas of Scotland tourist don’t want to see 300 ft turbines but we’re not allowed to manufacture them in Scotland ,so they ship them halfway around the world it’s a joke as soon as you think the word climate change . Ask SNP who is going to pay pensions , benefits, armed forces they cannot tell you, they have time notion they will walk into the EU which will never happen we’ve nothing to offer them in return, there’s always SNP sabre rattling when the win a election it’s to give false hope to the yes votes that they still have there finger on the pulse of independence." Spot on | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Whiskey?" Tis an Irish drink. Thing you may mean Whisky. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Whiskey?" Interestingly, Irish “whiskey” 🥃 and Scotch “whisky”🥃 come from the Gaelic "uisce beatha" and "uisge beatha" – “water of life.” The spelling split when it was anglicised:- Ireland kept the “ey,” Scotland dropped it. It stuck because Irish whiskey dominated sales in the late 1800s, so Americans used “whiskey” to copy the style, while Scots kept “whisky” to stand apart. The same happened with “Scotch” – it started as trade shorthand, then became a legal term for whisky made in Scotland. “Scottish whisky” never caught on. So that’s where we’ve landed:- stick an ‘e’ in and you’re talking about Irish or American whiskey, leave it out and it’s Scottish, Canadian, Japanese whisky and most of the rest. Just one of those branding quirks from the 1800s that never went away! 😊🥃 | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I'm from a Labour heartland but voted Plaid Cymru this time. I do wonder the more our values diverge will it cause the break up of the Union? Will it cause a groundswell for Wales if England turns more to Reform? I read somewhere Spain keeps an eye on Scotland due to Catalonia. " I’m also from a traditional Labour heartland in North-East Wales - now Reform territory. We’ve got our own distinctive culture here, shaped by native North-East Wales communities but also strongly influenced by Merseyside, Cheshire, Lancashire, and the North Midlands. Plaid Cymru try to force their version of Welsh culture on us, but it’s different to ours. Cardiff’s 150 miles to the south, so we don’t really identify with South Wales either. The Senedd seems to focus on the needs of the South while the needs of North-East Wales get ignored, especially when it comes to road network upgrades. Wales might be one principality, but it’s made up of a range of distinct cultures. That’s why North-East Wales doesn’t really identify with the Plaid ethos. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Who wants independent Scotland ? I’d be sad to see the union split, but I do sometimes wonder whether Scotland's chances of gaining independence would actually be helped by making the vote UK-wide. "If England was allowed to vote in the first referendum then Scotland would be independent now | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Whiskey? Interestingly, Irish “whiskey” 🥃 and Scotch “whisky”🥃 come from the Gaelic "uisce beatha" and "uisge beatha" – “water of life.” The spelling split when it was anglicised:- Ireland kept the “ey,” Scotland dropped it. It stuck because Irish whiskey dominated sales in the late 1800s, so Americans used “whiskey” to copy the style, while Scots kept “whisky” to stand apart. The same happened with “Scotch” – it started as trade shorthand, then became a legal term for whisky made in Scotland. “Scottish whisky” never caught on. So that’s where we’ve landed:- stick an ‘e’ in and you’re talking about Irish or American whiskey, leave it out and it’s Scottish, Canadian, Japanese whisky and most of the rest. Just one of those branding quirks from the 1800s that never went away! 😊🥃" Agreed ..Irish best!! | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Plaid Cymru try to force their version of Welsh culture on us, but it’s different to ours. Cardiff’s 150 miles to the south, so we don’t really identify with South Wales either. The Senedd seems to focus on the needs of the South while the needs of North-East Wales get ignored, especially when it comes to road network upgrades. Wales might be one principality, but it’s made up of a range of distinct cultures. That’s why North-East Wales doesn’t really identify with the Plaid ethos. " For such a small country Wales is a very diverse country. I did suggest to a former MP that we would be better off have three regional assemblies/super councils [North Wales, Mid & West Wales, South Wales] instead of the single assembly/Senedd which, sadly, seems to ignore the rest of the country north of the Head of the Valleys road and west of Llanelli. But even that might not work as there is a big difference between NE and NW Wales. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Plaid Cymru try to force their version of Welsh culture on us, but it’s different to ours. Cardiff’s 150 miles to the south, so we don’t really identify with South Wales either. The Senedd seems to focus on the needs of the South while the needs of North-East Wales get ignored, especially when it comes to road network upgrades. Wales might be one principality, but it’s made up of a range of distinct cultures. That’s why North-East Wales doesn’t really identify with the Plaid ethos. For such a small country Wales is a very diverse country. I did suggest to a former MP that we would be better off have three regional assemblies/super councils [North Wales, Mid & West Wales, South Wales] instead of the single assembly/Senedd which, sadly, seems to ignore the rest of the country north of the Head of the Valleys road and west of Llanelli. But even that might not work as there is a big difference between NE and NW Wales." I agree. Even with three regional assemblies, we’d still have the problem of a North East / North West Wales divide. North East Wales and Merseyside have always been tied together economically and culturally, and that’s partly because of Liverpool’s Welsh community. Back in the 1810s Welsh people made up about 10% of the city, and Liverpool was unofficially known as “the capital of North Wales” for a reason. Meanwhile North West Wales went its own way. That divide isn’t just practical, it’s history. The flooding of Capel Celyn in the Tryweryn valley in 1965 hit hard. It was one of the last Welsh-speaking villages left, and it was flooded to make Llyn Celyn for Liverpool’s water supply. A large majority of Welsh MPs opposed it, but it still went ahead anyway. That incident attracted a lot of people towards Plaid Cymru in the 60s, and Liverpool Council apologised for the offence it caused in 2005. That resentment didn’t go away. Through the 80s and early 90s there were hundreds of arson attacks on English-owned holiday homes in North West Wales. Police linked a majority of the arson attacks to Meibion Glyndwr, and a number of prosecutions followed. The picture now is less about old grudges and more about how things actually work day to day. North East Wales still looks to Merseyside for employment, while North West Wales relies on tourism from those same English counties just over the border. If regional structures are going to work, we need to make those cross-border links feel like an advantage for communities across North Wales. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| Post new Message to Thread |
| back to top |  |
