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"… The judgement has not taken any consideration into trans women…" Yes it has. And more importantly it has taken into consideration biological women who always have had toilets based on their biological sex (not gender) and their long-fought-for rights to have toilets and changing areas as a refuge from biological men. Where a toilet is an individual cubicle off a public area, it can be unisex for anyone. When a toilet contains more than one cubicle with an annexe and it means other people can come into the annexed area outside any cubicle, it has to be an area designated by sex so that when it is flagged as a women’s area, no biological males are allowed. This is to protect women. I don’t find this remotely controversial. | |||
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"There is literally no evidence of Transwomen facing danger in men's toilets. There is plenty of evidence of women facing danger with Transwomen." Look at the hatred that goes on, here at FG against TV/TS. On a site that should be supportive. And you hav not addressed the substantive points of the difference between women's public toilets and those in pub and restaurants. | |||
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"… But trans women, who want to be a woman and generally have no intention of any sexual intentions against women will now have the only choice of going to a mens toilet… " Let’s just read that one more time, shall we… “and generally have no intention of any sexual intentions against women”… *generally* … Were you trying to troll when you wrote that..?! “generally” FFS. We should be ensuring that not one such transgression can ever occur. I’m quite a responsible person so I’m unlikely to shoot someone (although I can sometimes be sorely tempted) but I still need a gun licence for a shotgun. I’m homosexual and have no sexual interest whatsoever in women. But I still don’t think I should be allowed to access their designated spaces. There are rules and regulations *for a reason*. | |||
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"… The judgement has not taken any consideration into trans women… Yes it has. And more importantly it has taken into consideration biological women who always have had toilets based on their biological sex (not gender) and their long-fought-for rights to have toilets and changing areas as a refuge from biological men. Where a toilet is an individual cubicle off a public area, it can be unisex for anyone. When a toilet contains more than one cubicle with an annexe and it means other people can come into the annexed area outside any cubicle, it has to be an area designated by sex so that when it is flagged as a women’s area, no biological males are allowed. This is to protect women. I don’t find this remotely controversial. " And who's going to police it turn away a butch woman or give her a sexual inspection before she can piss anywhere the system was working without the extremists on either side. | |||
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"Everyone seems to forget that under this guidance trans men have to use female toilets. So is that person in the ladies with the beard and bulging muscles a trans man or a cis man with malevolent intent? Who the hell is actually going to police this? " Agree. The focus should be on practical measures to protect any vulnerable person. I'd hate to be a trans man having to go into a woman's toilet in a pub, fearing the anger of men watching me do so. | |||
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"I'll get the 🍿 on shall I?" Make it salty, not sweet. Best to err on the safe side. (Unless it's trans corn , nobody is sure what that's supposed to taste like) | |||
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"There is literally no evidence of Transwomen facing danger in men's toilets. There is plenty of evidence of women facing danger with Transwomen." You got it in 1. | |||
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"… The judgement has not taken any consideration into trans women… Yes it has. And more importantly it has taken into consideration biological women who always have had toilets based on their biological sex (not gender) and their long-fought-for rights to have toilets and changing areas as a refuge from biological men. Where a toilet is an individual cubicle off a public area, it can be unisex for anyone. When a toilet contains more than one cubicle with an annexe and it means other people can come into the annexed area outside any cubicle, it has to be an area designated by sex so that when it is flagged as a women’s area, no biological males are allowed. This is to protect women. I don’t find this remotely controversial. And who's going to police it turn away a butch woman or give her a sexual inspection before she can piss anywhere the system was working without the extremists on either side. " It is not 'extremist' for biological women to want to feel safe in womens toilets | |||
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"I apologise to those of you that are not interested in trans women subjects. But in my view this judgement is discretionary. I understand why a woman could be concerned about men being in womans toilet. But what is the difference between the simple answer is to make all tolets unisex to the loo in a pub or restaurant that have two cubicles next to each other, and a womans loo that have, 2, 3 or 4 cubicles next to each other. The layouts the same. But trans women, who want to be a woman and generally have no intention of any sexual intentions against women will now have the only choice of going to a mens toilet. Which may well lead to them facing violence to them as they are a minority. The judgement has not taken any consideration into trans women. "  the simple solution is to make all tolets unisex problem solved | |||
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"The Guidance is Clear Men and Women use Male and Female facilities. Others Should have a gender neutral facility and the walls must be floor to ceiling. Disabled Toilets are to be permitted for this purpose. " I use these facilities when out. But sometimes they are locked, and they should be accessible. | |||
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"The Guidance is Clear Men and Women use Male and Female facilities. Others Should have a gender neutral facility and the walls must be floor to ceiling. Disabled Toilets are to be permitted for this purpose. I use these facilities when out. But sometimes they are locked, and they should be accessible." Agreed:- Radar Keys are available I understand. | |||
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"… The judgement has not taken any consideration into trans women… Yes it has. And more importantly it has taken into consideration biological women who always have had toilets based on their biological sex (not gender) and their long-fought-for rights to have toilets and changing areas as a refuge from biological men. Where a toilet is an individual cubicle off a public area, it can be unisex for anyone. When a toilet contains more than one cubicle with an annexe and it means other people can come into the annexed area outside any cubicle, it has to be an area designated by sex so that when it is flagged as a women’s area, no biological males are allowed. This is to protect women. I don’t find this remotely controversial. And who's going to police it turn away a butch woman or give her a sexual inspection before she can piss anywhere the system was working without the extremists on either side. It is not 'extremist' for biological women to want to feel safe in womens toilets " Definitely or a guy who looks like a female in fear being beaten up going to the gents by gaybashers instead of discreetly going to the ladies. | |||
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"… But trans women, who want to be a woman and generally have no intention of any sexual intentions against women will now have the only choice of going to a mens toilet… Let’s just read that one more time, shall we… “and generally have no intention of any sexual intentions against women”… *generally* … Were you trying to troll when you wrote that..?! “generally” FFS. We should be ensuring that not one such transgression can ever occur. I’m quite a responsible person so I’m unlikely to shoot someone (although I can sometimes be sorely tempted) but I still need a gun licence for a shotgun. I’m homosexual and have no sexual interest whatsoever in women. But I still don’t think I should be allowed to access their designated spaces. There are rules and regulations *for a reason*." Righto So i apologise in advance but you seem to have a strong stance against this So a question directed to you as an individual How would you personally feel and react to a trans woman standing at the mirror doing her makeup looking in the mirror with you behind her standing at a urinel having a piss ? | |||
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"Single person toilet for anyone who wants to use it, problem solved." There's plenty of people who would need this. Men who have a penis the size of a half eaten chipolata, for a start. | |||
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"Single person toilet for anyone who wants to use it, problem solved." Is that not the accessible /“disabled” toilet? | |||
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"… The judgement has not taken any consideration into trans women… Yes it has. And more importantly it has taken into consideration biological women who always have had toilets based on their biological sex (not gender) and their long-fought-for rights to have toilets and changing areas as a refuge from biological men. Where a toilet is an individual cubicle off a public area, it can be unisex for anyone. When a toilet contains more than one cubicle with an annexe and it means other people can come into the annexed area outside any cubicle, it has to be an area designated by sex so that when it is flagged as a women’s area, no biological males are allowed. This is to protect women. I don’t find this remotely controversial. " You are missing the point. It does address womens needs. All pubic places that have toilets, are designated for male, female, or unisex. However not all of these places have unisex facilities. Therefore toilets will not be available in some places to trans woman. The judgment gives no advice to these premises on how they should deal with trans, the judgement simply divides the the law into a black or white distinction, male or female facilities, with no regard into how to accommodate trans women. I belive that is discrimination against a minority. | |||
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"… The judgement has not taken any consideration into trans women… Yes it has. And more importantly it has taken into consideration biological women who always have had toilets based on their biological sex (not gender) and their long-fought-for rights to have toilets and changing areas as a refuge from biological men. Where a toilet is an individual cubicle off a public area, it can be unisex for anyone. When a toilet contains more than one cubicle with an annexe and it means other people can come into the annexed area outside any cubicle, it has to be an area designated by sex so that when it is flagged as a women’s area, no biological males are allowed. This is to protect women. I don’t find this remotely controversial. And who's going to police it turn away a butch woman or give her a sexual inspection before she can piss anywhere the system was working without the extremists on either side. It is not 'extremist' for biological women to want to feel safe in womens toilets Definitely or a guy who looks like a female in fear being beaten up going to the gents by gaybashers instead of discreetly going to the ladies. " They can use the disabled/unisex loo. Women dont want people with a cock in their spaces. Its that simple. Its not about you. Its about womens safety. | |||
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"So, natalie Mars, daisy taylor, bailey jay, they now have to use the mens toilet? " Technically, people who support the law here will say yes. How good you look isn't specified. | |||
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"Single person toilet for anyone who wants to use it, problem solved. Is that not the accessible /“disabled” toilet? " It should be renamed so those who have preferentially used it don't get uppity | |||
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"… But trans women, who want to be a woman and generally have no intention of any sexual intentions against women will now have the only choice of going to a mens toilet… Let’s just read that one more time, shall we… “and generally have no intention of any sexual intentions against women”… *generally* … Were you trying to troll when you wrote that..?! “generally” FFS. We should be ensuring that not one such transgression can ever occur. I’m quite a responsible person so I’m unlikely to shoot someone (although I can sometimes be sorely tempted) but I still need a gun licence for a shotgun. I’m homosexual and have no sexual interest whatsoever in women. But I still don’t think I should be allowed to access their designated spaces. There are rules and regulations *for a reason*." I picked out the use of generally as well.... generally isn't acceptable. Once is one too many. And biological women shouldn't have to worry about others sexual intentions, let alone be the victim of it. There was another thread where I mentioned I came upon a court report and my mind was opened to how many women suffer some form of sexual crime ot harassment. I chatted to some women and they pretty much all said something had happened and for some it was not frequently but regularly. One thing that was uppermost in their thoughts was that even though things may never actually happen, they often carried the thought that something could. Some said there was always the thought lurking in the back of their mind of it's potential. And carrying that was a burden. I can understand a biological women needing toilets to be just for biological women for them to not just be but FEEL safe and comfortable. I appreciate that trans women and men might suffer not feeling safe as well and I would love there to be help for them too. Perhaps single toilets, and other ideas mentioned here are possibilities? | |||
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"There is literally no evidence of Transwomen facing danger in men's toilets. There is plenty of evidence of women facing danger with Transwomen." Not wading into this one, but to say there is literally no evidence of Transwomen facing danger in the men’s toilets may or may not be true but just because there is no recorded evidence doesn’t mean the threat is not real. I was threatened with quite graphic physical harm for using a gents toilet in a pub a few years back. Should have reported it to the police but I was only just out with some close friends and wasn’t confident enough to escalate. Can be a cruel world if you are not the in 99.9 % and don't conform | |||
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"There's also the question of what is a Transwoman?" Few and far between on here i should think. | |||
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"… But trans women, who want to be a woman and generally have no intention of any sexual intentions against women will now have the only choice of going to a mens toilet… Let’s just read that one more time, shall we… “and generally have no intention of any sexual intentions against women”… *generally* … Were you trying to troll when you wrote that..?! “generally” FFS. We should be ensuring that not one such transgression can ever occur. I’m quite a responsible person so I’m unlikely to shoot someone (although I can sometimes be sorely tempted) but I still need a gun licence for a shotgun. I’m homosexual and have no sexual interest whatsoever in women. But I still don’t think I should be allowed to access their designated spaces. There are rules and regulations *for a reason*. I picked out the use of generally as well.... generally isn't acceptable. Once is one too many. And biological women shouldn't have to worry about others sexual intentions, let alone be the victim of it. There was another thread where I mentioned I came upon a court report and my mind was opened to how many women suffer some form of sexual crime ot harassment. I chatted to some women and they pretty much all said something had happened and for some it was not frequently but regularly. One thing that was uppermost in their thoughts was that even though things may never actually happen, they often carried the thought that something could. Some said there was always the thought lurking in the back of their mind of it's potential. And carrying that was a burden. I can understand a biological women needing toilets to be just for biological women for them to not just be but FEEL safe and comfortable. I appreciate that trans women and men might suffer not feeling safe as well and I would love there to be help for them too. Perhaps single toilets, and other ideas mentioned here are possibilities?" A couple of years back I made an account on a chatroom and, I guess it was my name or profile pic or something, many guys assumed I was female. Let me tell you, the amount of harassment and sometimes outright abuse I got was astronomical. Far more than I would ever get as a man. It really opened my eyes to how men will behave toward women when they think there are no consequences. A lot of the interactions I had left me feeling truly disgusted. I came away from that experience understanding better what women experience whenever they go into a place where there are strange men. As men ourselves we may think it's irrational paranoia, and maybe it is sometimes, but it's less irrational than I'd always thought. End of the day, as a man, if someone tries to hurt me or worse, I can fight back. The average woman cannot. They are completely at the mercy of their attacker unless armed or prepared in some way. No, of course not every trans person is a secret predator. But women are right to be wary of them, just as they are of all men. | |||
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"There's also the question of what is a Transwoman?" I used to think it was a man diagnosed with gender dysphoria and transitioning to treat it. But apparently you don't even need that to be trans anymore. | |||
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"There is literally no evidence of Transwomen facing danger in men's toilets. There is plenty of evidence of women facing danger with Transwomen. Not wading into this one, but to say there is literally no evidence of Transwomen facing danger in the men’s toilets may or may not be true but just because there is no recorded evidence doesn’t mean the threat is not real. I was threatened with quite graphic physical harm for using a gents toilet in a pub a few years back. Should have reported it to the police but I was only just out with some close friends and wasn’t confident enough to escalate. Can be a cruel world if you are not the in 99.9 % and don't conform " There is no way that the trans community wouldn't report it. No way at all | |||
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"There is literally no evidence of Transwomen facing danger in men's toilets. There is plenty of evidence of women facing danger with Transwomen. Not wading into this one, but to say there is literally no evidence of Transwomen facing danger in the men’s toilets may or may not be true but just because there is no recorded evidence doesn’t mean the threat is not real. I was threatened with quite graphic physical harm for using a gents toilet in a pub a few years back. Should have reported it to the police but I was only just out with some close friends and wasn’t confident enough to escalate. Can be a cruel world if you are not the in 99.9 % and don't conform There is no way that the trans community wouldn't report it. No way at all " My TS friend, she was drgged , rpd, and never reported it. Some people just want to forget the experience. | |||
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"There is literally no evidence of Transwomen facing danger in men's toilets. There is plenty of evidence of women facing danger with Transwomen. Not wading into this one, but to say there is literally no evidence of Transwomen facing danger in the men’s toilets may or may not be true but just because there is no recorded evidence doesn’t mean the threat is not real. I was threatened with quite graphic physical harm for using a gents toilet in a pub a few years back. Should have reported it to the police but I was only just out with some close friends and wasn’t confident enough to escalate. Can be a cruel world if you are not the in 99.9 % and don't conform " Although I've posted supporting toilets only for biological women. I struggle to believe that anybody thinks there isn't a potential risk for trans women using a male toilet. The risk of verbal abuse at least which is bad enough. Whether or not there are some readily available stats that can be pulled up or news reports available. And again, it's not just if an example of physical or verbal abuse occurs, it also suffering the feeling that there is the potential. I could totally understand a trans women feeling insecure using a male toilet. | |||
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"Men assault men in male toilets. Men assualt women in women's toilets. Men are the problem. No wonder women dont want them in their supposed safe spaces." Exactly. I'm obviously male myself and I don't feel safe around a lot of men I see. As an adult I've been attacked and harassed in public by men many times. | |||
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"Biological girl often use the mens toilet .when a pub or club is packed on a weekend. And the queue for the girls toilet is long .Men don't seem to mind .but if a man uses the women's toilet then that's not okay. And the female toilets have cubicles with doors that lock. Just looking at the other side of the fence xx " Gents toilets have cubicles that lock too, or are you suggesting the women you mention using the gents are squatting over a urinal? | |||
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"Biological girl often use the mens toilet .when a pub or club is packed on a weekend. And the queue for the girls toilet is long .Men don't seem to mind .but if a man uses the women's toilet then that's not okay. And the female toilets have cubicles with doors that lock. Just looking at the other side of the fence xx " Most of the people clubbing are pissed or half pissed. I felt that some women felt entitled to use the cubicals in the male toilets, when I use to go out clubbing many years ago. | |||
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"Biological girl often use the mens toilet .when a pub or club is packed on a weekend. And the queue for the girls toilet is long .Men don't seem to mind .but if a man uses the women's toilet then that's not okay. And the female toilets have cubicles with doors that lock. Just looking at the other side of the fence xx Gents toilets have cubicles that lock too, or are you suggesting the women you mention using the gents are squatting over a urinal?" no they use the cubicles as they are often empty as guys just want a piss and use the urinals. Xx | |||
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"There is literally no evidence of Transwomen facing danger in men's toilets. There is plenty of evidence of women facing danger with Transwomen. Not wading into this one, but to say there is literally no evidence of Transwomen facing danger in the men’s toilets may or may not be true but just because there is no recorded evidence doesn’t mean the threat is not real. I was threatened with quite graphic physical harm for using a gents toilet in a pub a few years back. Should have reported it to the police but I was only just out with some close friends and wasn’t confident enough to escalate. Can be a cruel world if you are not the in 99.9 % and don't conform There is no way that the trans community wouldn't report it. No way at all " I am not the trans community, I’m an individual with all the insecurities and hangups that come from not quite fitting in for most of my life. There are certainly some trans that are very vocal, advocating for the broader community but from my experience and certainly in rural Cumbria I would say they are a vocal minority. Please don’t use broad brush strokes to invalidate my lived experience. | |||
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"Suppose it is a bit of a grey area. No real reason why genuine transsexuals should not be allowed to use the toilets of the sex they have become i.e. post-op. The concern is always going to be the 'bloke in a frock' pretending to be a woman and perhaps having predatory thoughts on his mind. At a guess a transman would just go into a gents toilet and straight into a cubicle." totally agree I can only comment on my own behaviour I walk in go in a cubicle as there are no urinals, do what I have to. Then out quick look in mirror check make up wash hands and out xx | |||
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"I apologise to those of you that are not interested in trans women subjects. But in my view this judgement is discretionary. I understand why a woman could be concerned about men being in womans toilet. But what is the difference between going to the loo in a pub or restaurant that have two cubicles next to each other, and a womans loo that have, 2, 3 or 4 cubicles next to each other. The layouts the same. But trans women, who want to be a woman and generally have no intention of any sexual intentions against women will now have the only choice of going to a mens toilet. Which may well lead to them facing violence to them as they are a minority. The judgement has not taken any consideration into trans women. " Because it's not just women using the loos children are! And you are a guy end off. the only 2 genders male and female. | |||
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"Doesn't make any sense children can use ladies or gents depending on their age and sex, you seem to be mixing up transpeople with sex offenders. " this  | |||
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"And to cast the net further. Do gay men go to piss or perv. Would you be comfortable knowing a gay man was in the toilet when your teenage son was in there. No I think is the answer, basically I think most just want to go to the toilet and get back to their mates be it man woman or other xx " I wasn't expecting to see homophobia in a site like this. You should be utterly ashamed of this comment | |||
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"And to cast the net further. Do gay men go to piss or perv. Would you be comfortable knowing a gay man was in the toilet when your teenage son was in there. No I think is the answer, basically I think most just want to go to the toilet and get back to their mates be it man woman or other xx I wasn't expecting to see homophobia in a site like this. You should be utterly ashamed of this comment " firstly I'm not ashamed next actually loo up the meaning of homafobia its not totally about gay men fact | |||
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"And to cast the net further. Do gay men go to piss or perv. Would you be comfortable knowing a gay man was in the toilet when your teenage son was in there. No I think is the answer, basically I think most just want to go to the toilet and get back to their mates be it man woman or other xx I wasn't expecting to see homophobia in a site like this. You should be utterly ashamed of this comment firstly I'm not ashamed next actually loo up the meaning of homafobia its not totally about gay men fact " You just suggested gay men are predators and interested in teen boys. Congratulations, you've gone back to the early days of thinking all gays are paedos. There are literally prison statistics regarding Transwomen and sex offences | |||
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"I've given this more thought. Sorry if your opinions don't match mine. Don't attack me, but I'm in agreement with the government. Vulnerable people come before my rights. Keep those born of male gender out of the female areas. It will become the norm seeing trans CDs etc in male toilets, just as seat belts, 24 hour shops became the normal. I'm ready to embrace and accept it. I've already changed my behaviour by only using disability toilets. Not every disability is visible. Perhaps now I look at it as though this is a kind of disability but I'm happy to accept it. You don't have trillions to fight the courts. Accept and ignore the negativity. It's the new cottaging but out in plain site. " So was your behaviour wrong before and how will it affect females who have lived their lives as males now being outed forced to use the ladies toilets . | |||
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"And to cast the net further. Do gay men go to piss or perv. Would you be comfortable knowing a gay man was in the toilet when your teenage son was in there. No I think is the answer, basically I think most just want to go to the toilet and get back to their mates be it man woman or other xx " What? Yes I'd be fine. It's astonishing to think you imagine this would be a disastrous thing. Gay, straight, bi or whatever individuals are humans. Course there's good and bad in all communities. But gay men piss and will end up in a toilet on occasion. Your teenage son will learn to deal with life! Gay, straight, bi, we are all looking mainly for four key things when we use a public urinal. 1) To empty our bladders. 2) To try our hardest to dissolve the soap cake in the urinal if it's there. 3) To piss slightly longer than the guy next to us. Competition right? 3) At posher places, to not let that random guy with assorted aftershaves dry our hands. (Hate that!) NO! Right? | |||
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"I've given this more thought. Sorry if your opinions don't match mine. Don't attack me, but I'm in agreement with the government. Vulnerable people come before my rights. Keep those born of male gender out of the female areas. It will become the norm seeing trans CDs etc in male toilets, just as seat belts, 24 hour shops became the normal. I'm ready to embrace and accept it. I've already changed my behaviour by only using disability toilets. Not every disability is visible. Perhaps now I look at it as though this is a kind of disability but I'm happy to accept it. You don't have trillions to fight the courts. Accept and ignore the negativity. It's the new cottaging but out in plain site. So was your behaviour wrong before and how will it affect females who have lived their lives as males now being outed forced to use the ladies toilets . " Nobody here seems bothered here about their safety. The preoccupation is with genetic men who can use the way they present to gain access to a safe space for women. | |||
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"Vulnerable people overrides all concerns. It's what keeps us safe" We are remarkably inconsistent I think. Thousands of girls have been systematically abused over decades by gangs and we have ignored the issue. Women go on marches to highlight the fear they have of unknown men placed into accommodation near their joints and schools. These numbers dwarf the numbers of sexual attacks by trans. | |||
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"No.. statistics say women face more abuse in the workplace. Womens spaces born with a vagina are women's spaces end of. Men born with penis , women were born with a vaginga end of. God created women , surgery created women. Accept and respect women. " Sorry the most dangerous place for women is in their own home | |||
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"Since trans men now have to use female spaces. What's to stop a Cis man claiming to be born female and entering female only spaces? Are we checking genitals at the doors now? Ridiculous " The law is the opposite of what you stated. People are to use spaces assigned to thier biological sex. However, I have no doubt convincing transwomen and transmen would get a second glance in whatever loo they choose to use based on thier gender identity. The only people who have a problem with women not wanting penises in female spaces, are men. | |||
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"New design for new public buildings should include male, female and neutral space" 👏 👏 👏 inn theory they should have that already as toilets designated as disabled are unisex. | |||
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"Hi Your born a man or a woman until you die end off There are too many people want to change the facts of life." And too many people being judgemental | |||
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"The Guidance is Clear Men and Women use Male and Female facilities. Others Should have a gender neutral facility and the walls must be floor to ceiling. Disabled Toilets are to be permitted for this purpose. I use these facilities when out. But sometimes they are locked, and they should be accessible." They are locked to stop abled bodied people using and abusing them, they are designed for the disabled | |||
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"The Guidance is Clear Men and Women use Male and Female facilities. Others Should have a gender neutral facility and the walls must be floor to ceiling. Disabled Toilets are to be permitted for this purpose. I use these facilities when out. But sometimes they are locked, and they should be accessible. They are locked to stop abled bodied people using and abusing them, they are designed for the disabled" Actually, they are designed for anyone. Any public funded facility such as library or community centre, making an accessible toilet inaccessible should be challenged. | |||
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"Where is the evidence to back up this so called 'threat' to women from trans women in public toilets? This new legislation is a complete farce. " It is there if you look for it. However, what evidence do you want? There is also the notion of perceived threat, and nobody should have to feel threat just to take a piss. If women say they dont want cocks in their safe spaces, no man should question that. | |||
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"And to cast the net further. Do gay men go to piss or perv. Would you be comfortable knowing a gay man was in the toilet when your teenage son was in there. No I think is the answer, basically I think most just want to go to the toilet and get back to their mates be it man woman or other xx I wasn't expecting to see homophobia in a site like this. You should be utterly ashamed of this comment " ???????????? Not a homophobic comment at all. Just practical. Absolutely nothing to be ashamed of. You are jumping to conclusions. | |||
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"Let's blame violence against women on transmen and immigrants not cis white men. " Nobody is doing that. The legislation doesnt do that either. | |||
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"… But trans women, who want to be a woman and generally have no intention of any sexual intentions against women will now have the only choice of going to a mens toilet… Let’s just read that one more time, shall we… “and generally have no intention of any sexual intentions against women”… *generally* … Were you trying to troll when you wrote that..?! “generally” FFS. We should be ensuring that not one such transgression can ever occur. I’m quite a responsible person so I’m unlikely to shoot someone (although I can sometimes be sorely tempted) but I still need a gun licence for a shotgun. I’m homosexual and have no sexual interest whatsoever in women. But I still don’t think I should be allowed to access their designated spaces. There are rules and regulations *for a reason*. Righto So i apologise in advance but you seem to have a strong stance against this So a question directed to you as an individual How would you personally feel and react to a trans woman standing at the mirror doing her makeup looking in the mirror with you behind her standing at a urinel having a piss ? " Inconvenient though it is, we have to take account of the fact that a high percentage of "transwomen" retain a penis and are quite capable of sex with a biological woman, and indeed there are a number of cases of women being r**ed even in a hospital setting! Those of us that have daughters will amongst those that are uneasy about 'trans women' being in 'womans spaces' It is a legitimate point of view and should not lead to big 'hate' campaigns. | |||
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"… The judgement has not taken any consideration into trans women… Yes it has. And more importantly it has taken into consideration biological women who always have had toilets based on their biological sex (not gender) and their long-fought-for rights to have toilets and changing areas as a refuge from biological men. Where a toilet is an individual cubicle off a public area, it can be unisex for anyone. When a toilet contains more than one cubicle with an annexe and it means other people can come into the annexed area outside any cubicle, it has to be an area designated by sex so that when it is flagged as a women’s area, no biological males are allowed. This is to protect women. I don’t find this remotely controversial. " I agree 👍 | |||
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"There is literally no evidence of Transwomen facing danger in men's toilets. There is plenty of evidence of women facing danger with Transwomen." Any trans person can use an accessible toilet as an alternative option. | |||
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"There is literally no evidence of Transwomen facing danger in men's toilets. There is plenty of evidence of women facing danger with Transwomen. Any trans person can use an accessible toilet as an alternative option." I do this when it's available. But there's been a situation where the facility wasn't there or wasn't open. I'm afraid then I am pragmatic. But the regular places I know, the staff know me. I always tell them if I need to use the ladies. | |||
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"… The judgement has not taken any consideration into trans women… Yes it has. And more importantly it has taken into consideration biological women who always have had toilets based on their biological sex (not gender) and their long-fought-for rights to have toilets and changing areas as a refuge from biological men. Where a toilet is an individual cubicle off a public area, it can be unisex for anyone. When a toilet contains more than one cubicle with an annexe and it means other people can come into the annexed area outside any cubicle, it has to be an area designated by sex so that when it is flagged as a women’s area, no biological males are allowed. This is to protect women. I don’t find this remotely controversial. I agree 👍" Same, an erudite and reasoned post. We are in danger of allowing the woke movement to become a runaway train. | |||
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"This doesn't seem a issue on the other fab site think it's more to do with hate than anything else. " You think women not wanting cocks in their female safe spaces is about hate? | |||
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"It just wasn't a issue ten years ago " So who are you saying hates who? Do you think women are entitled to a female safe spaces? | |||
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"I've have women in my life not once have they complained about transmen in toilets but I've had them phone me on trains, driving or other situations when they've been in fear of guys. " Maybe thats because there arent that many trans women anyway. Its womens safe spaces, so men really have no grounds to criticise it. | |||
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"I've have women in my life not once have they complained about transmen in toilets but I've had them phone me on trains, driving or other situations when they've been in fear of guys. Maybe thats because there arent that many trans women anyway. Its womens safe spaces, so men really have no grounds to criticise it." But the point I was making it's just never been a actual problem just a political one. | |||
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"I've have women in my life not once have they complained about transmen in toilets but I've had them phone me on trains, driving or other situations when they've been in fear of guys. Maybe thats because there arent that many trans women anyway. Its womens safe spaces, so men really have no grounds to criticise it. But the point I was making it's just never been a actual problem just a political one. " There are no women here to ask "do you feel uncomfortable if there was a man with a penis in the ladies toilets with you?". But I guess someone did ask women and enough of them said "yes" for legislators to take notice. | |||
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"toilets are toilets. Let whoever use them. Don't know why toilets are segregated by sex, apart from blokes peeing on the seats.." Women are the sex that are predominantly the victims of sexual harassment, assault, and violence. The sex that predominantly are the perpetrators of this are males. Although the act of using a toilet isn't sexual it involves parts of the body that people would describe as intimate. Even if inside a cubicle underwear is removed and males may generally be in contact with their sexual organ. Perhaps because of this women may feel they are in a vulnerable position. Although an incident could occur in any part of a women's life, I would hazard a guess they would say they feel safer in their own homes or mixing with men 'in the open' Sometimes it's not just about being safe but also being able to feel secure. | |||
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"toilets are toilets. Let whoever use them. Don't know why toilets are segregated by sex, apart from blokes peeing on the seats.. Women are the sex that are predominantly the victims of sexual harassment, assault, and violence. The sex that predominantly are the perpetrators of this are males. Although the act of using a toilet isn't sexual it involves parts of the body that people would describe as intimate. Even if inside a cubicle underwear is removed and males may generally be in contact with their sexual organ. Perhaps because of this women may feel they are in a vulnerable position. Although an incident could occur in any part of a women's life, I would hazard a guess they would say they feel safer in their own homes or mixing with men 'in the open' Sometimes it's not just about being safe but also being able to feel secure." Just check on the murder rate in a womens own home by her partner. | |||
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"The women I know are far more likely to go the ladies together. I think they take the opportunity to have a chat and sort out their look. Maybe that's part of being safe. I've had some great chats with women in the ladies, but this was in the gay village." Definitely guys go on there own girls go in gangs. | |||
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"toilets are toilets. Let whoever use them. Don't know why toilets are segregated by sex, apart from blokes peeing on the seats.. Women are the sex that are predominantly the victims of sexual harassment, assault, and violence. The sex that predominantly are the perpetrators of this are males. Although the act of using a toilet isn't sexual it involves parts of the body that people would describe as intimate. Even if inside a cubicle underwear is removed and males may generally be in contact with their sexual organ. Perhaps because of this women may feel they are in a vulnerable position. Although an incident could occur in any part of a women's life, I would hazard a guess they would say they feel safer in their own homes or mixing with men 'in the open' Sometimes it's not just about being safe but also being able to feel secure. Just check on the murder rate in a womens own home by her partner. " Yep, the biggest risk to women. And the levels of protection they receive is appalling. Some posts before, I mentioned how some facts, and then conversations with women brought home to me what they have to suffer and I wasn't referring to toilets I was referring to everyday life. The wording of that last part just above sounded better in my head lol 
If you go by stats the issue you highlight is streets ahead. It's sickening.
The main point of my post was in response to a previous poster ,me giving some reasoning to why toilet designation should be on the basis of sex.
And that it should be supported as a women's safe space.
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"I've even swapped knickers with a real girl in the ladies. For a bet of course. Actually, those who know the nightclub in Blackpool will recall a big unisex toilet where the girls cubicles were to one side and the blokes to the other. It seemed to work out ok." But does it just come down to people's anecdotes? A couple of years ago I did a sponsored fun run, many of us didn't realise it was planned as the messiest muddiest course possible as a bit of fun. Only one shower, some were umming and ahing then the women got together, said fuck it we've all got bits don't look at ours we won't look at yours..unless you've got a big one...Dave better wait then... fits of giggles....all got in showered ..had a great old laugh. And this was men and women who everyone was presuming were straight. Can I wheel that anecdote out to support something in the future. I've also been on a family group meal and when some female members returned from the toilet, they commented on a male using the toilet and they had a giggle, your bum looks way better than ours, laugh laugh. But then it changed to a few saying..I'm not so sure all the time though, when I was getting the train the other day there was this person and I remember thinking I'm not sure about this and I wasn't entirely comfortable being there with him. So which anecdote wins? It's not about a victory over another group. It's about one groups rights being confirmed. And another groups rights should also be confirmed. On the face of it I like the idea of lots of single cubicles that are for any to use. All equal. Not easy to do and you'd have less I presume. | |||
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"I'm in agreement with the ruling, biological women should have their own space. " Just protect women from domestic violence fuck all about toilets. | |||
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"I apologise to those of you that are not interested in trans women subjects. But in my view this judgement is discretionary. I understand why a woman could be concerned about men being in womans toilet. But what is the difference between going to the loo in a pub or restaurant that have two cubicles next to each other, and a womans loo that have, 2, 3 or 4 cubicles next to each other. The layouts the same. But trans women, who want to be a woman and generally have no intention of any sexual intentions against women will now have the only choice of going to a mens toilet. Which may well lead to them facing violence to them as they are a minority. The judgement has not taken any consideration into trans women. " The big flaw in your comment is "Trans Women who want to be a woman" that willnever happen. As soon as trans women stop thinking they will ever be women the quicker we can all move on. | |||
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"Why should this site "be supportive"? I'm into men's bits. I don't understand your "pub toilets" comment. Every pub I've been in has make toilets and female toilets. You haven't addressed the danger to women and lack of danger to Transwomen " Your "bits" are very nice  | |||
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"fuck all about toilets." Great to read that a man knows exactly what a woman's needs are | |||
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"Some toilets in London are now unisex eg. National Portrait Gallery etc " Yep, thats probably, wisely, the way things will go. So long as the toilet is single and a safe and private space, accessible to everyone makes sense. | |||
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"There's also the question of what is a Transwoman? I used to think it was a man diagnosed with gender dysphoria and transitioning to treat it. But apparently you don't even need that to be trans anymore. " The lunatics have taken over the asylum | |||
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"I can remember being in France about 40 years ago. In one spot there was a urinal for the guys and les jollies filles walked past the urinal to the WC...no harm done" Having lived in France they did not have any problems with arrangements like that. 💋💋💋 | |||
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