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"To stop illegals. Dream on Starmer. They work can in hand you fool" 👇👇👇 | |||
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"Actually, working with a can (tin of beans) in someones hand is pretty tricky so hat’s off to them. " Must be a bit like a circus act , phone in one hand , your Maci D in his deliveroo pouch on his back , his ev bike doing 30mph plus down our pot holed streets and now we are expecting the poor sod to be carrying a tin of beans in his free hand , this won’t end well  | |||
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"Brilliant idea. Bring it on. "  | |||
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"Only people with something to hide, some past nefarious criminal activity and a guilty conscience would object to having a proper legal ID card. " I agree right up to them insisting you need to use this ID card as preferred usage when accessing your porn and other government web sites | |||
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"Only people with something to hide, some past nefarious criminal activity and a guilty conscience would object to having a proper legal ID card. " Its all about state control! I object, I have nothing to hide but dont see why the State needs to know my whereabouts at any point in time. And it will have Zero impact on immigration, that's just an excuse. | |||
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"Only people with something to hide, some past nefarious criminal activity and a guilty conscience would object to having a proper legal ID card. Its all about state control! I object, I have nothing to hide but dont see why the State needs to know my whereabouts at any point in time. And it will have Zero impact on immigration, that's just an excuse." CCTV watches you 100’s of times a day, everytime you drive, use your payment cards - the government know where you are already. It’s good to have an opinion on what you believe the result of ID cards will be on immigration, but it is an opinion, not fact. | |||
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"Only people with something to hide, some past nefarious criminal activity and a guilty conscience would object to having a proper legal ID card. Its all about state control! I object, I have nothing to hide but dont see why the State needs to know my whereabouts at any point in time. And it will have Zero impact on immigration, that's just an excuse. CCTV watches you 100’s of times a day, everytime you drive, use your payment cards - the government know where you are already. It’s good to have an opinion on what you believe the result of ID cards will be on immigration, but it is an opinion, not fact. " They have all this information, so why do they need more. Whats your opinion of how it will help on the question of immigration? | |||
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"I have NO opinion. Get wise, haven’t you seen Inception?! "Not many people who get involved in discussions dont have an opinion. | |||
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"Actually, I think it was The Matrix. "Deviation, or is it repetition? | |||
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"We already have a national identity. All the government need to do is post a national insurance card out to everyone that is registered for national insurance " Exactly, no one but the fearful need be afraid. | |||
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"We already have a national identity. All the government need to do is post a national insurance card out to everyone that is registered for national insurance " So why create a totally new national digital ID database? | |||
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"We already have a national identity. All the government need to do is post a national insurance card out to everyone that is registered for national insurance So why create a totally new national digital ID database?" Is that planned? The BBC news said ‘a central database’ - no mention of a new one. | |||
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"Only people with something to hide, some past nefarious criminal activity and a guilty conscience would object to having a proper legal ID card. Its all about state control! I object, I have nothing to hide but dont see why the State needs to know my whereabouts at any point in time. And it will have Zero impact on immigration, that's just an excuse. CCTV watches you 100’s of times a day, everytime you drive, use your payment cards - the government know where you are already. It’s good to have an opinion on what you believe the result of ID cards will be on immigration, but it is an opinion, not fact. They have all this information, so why do they need more. Whats your opinion of how it will help on the question of immigration?" Lol. It won't make any difference | |||
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"Only people with something to hide, some past nefarious criminal activity and a guilty conscience would object to having a proper legal ID card. " you mean married men who join gay sex sites secretly ,for example . You are sleep walking into totalitarian communism via starmer | |||
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"Only people with something to hide, some past nefarious criminal activity and a guilty conscience would object to having a proper legal ID card. " So... when a future government makes being LGBT a crime.....? | |||
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"Only people with something to hide, some past nefarious criminal activity and a guilty conscience would object to having a proper legal ID card. Its all about state control! I object, I have nothing to hide but dont see why the State needs to know my whereabouts at any point in time. And it will have Zero impact on immigration, that's just an excuse." Plus, all these 5G towers going up on every street corner, I bet they are part of the scheme, we had no problem with internet before these poles went up - it IS all about control, immigration is just the cover they were looking for. | |||
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"Only people with something to hide, some past nefarious criminal activity and a guilty conscience would object to having a proper legal ID card. Its all about state control! I object, I have nothing to hide but dont see why the State needs to know my whereabouts at any point in time. And it will have Zero impact on immigration, that's just an excuse. Plus, all these 5G towers going up on every street corner, I bet they are part of the scheme, we had no problem with internet before these poles went up - it IS all about control, immigration is just the cover they were looking for." We've always lived in a country where the Subject ( regardless of citizenship ) does not have to prove anything to the State. An MP once suggested compulsory fingerprinting ''in order to assist the police in identifying those with Amnesia'' ( seriously ). The then Home Secretary responded this was ''Not in the British spirit''. We're also a country where Policing By Consent & Presumption of Innocence are bedrocks of our justice system. Compulsory ID changes that. Besides what do you want on the card? HIV status? BTW as someone with PTSD I am Legally Obliged to inform potential future employers about my health on my CV ( yes really ). | |||
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"I'd cards were serjest years back. Government voted against them." You just outed yourself Sergei, did Putin put you up to this? | |||
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"Radical solutions are required. If the British released .hundreds of hungry sharks into the sea of Calais then that would be a bigger deterrent than ID cards" The Sea of Calais, FFS is that what the French are calling it now? | |||
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"People moan about illegals, they moan about a scheme to make more difficult for illegals. The majority of European countries have some sort ID card system to be able to work and access services. They have less of an issue with illegal working. I wonder if those complaining would moan about there roof leaking and then moan about the roofer trying to fix it? " They're the same people who voted for Brexit, 'taking back out borders', so what do you expect? | |||
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"Only people with something to hide, some past nefarious criminal activity and a guilty conscience would object to having a proper legal ID card. Its all about state control! I object, I have nothing to hide but dont see why the State needs to know my whereabouts at any point in time. And it will have Zero impact on immigration, that's just an excuse. Plus, all these 5G towers going up on every street corner, I bet they are part of the scheme, we had no problem with internet before these poles went up - it IS all about control, immigration is just the cover they were looking for." Top Tip - Stick your digital ID card under your tinfoil hat and they'll never find you. | |||
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"The Tories in their last year in office let one million people in perfectly legally to do the jobs we Brits don’t like doing. Farage can’t tell us who he’s going to get to work in our hospitals and care homes! Those million immigrants will have all their paperwork in order because we supplied them with it. Who is going to wipe Granddads arse if he sends them home? " You stop the benefits of people who are able to work but make ZERO attempt to work that’s how The noose around this country’s neck is the inactive that are bleeding us dry so force them to work | |||
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"The Tories in their last year in office let one million people in perfectly legally to do the jobs we Brits don’t like doing. Farage can’t tell us who he’s going to get to work in our hospitals and care homes! Those million immigrants will have all their paperwork in order because we supplied them with it. Who is going to wipe Granddads arse if he sends them home? You stop the benefits of people who are able to work but make ZERO attempt to work that’s how The noose around this country’s neck is the inactive that are bleeding us dry so force them to work " It really isn’t though, the noose is the people stealing the country’s money in the billions, taking the profits, living in tax havens and trimming back on public services to increase their shareholder return. But it’s a lot easier to blame the poor. They don’t have lawyers. | |||
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"The Tories in their last year in office let one million people in perfectly legally to do the jobs we Brits don’t like doing. Farage can’t tell us who he’s going to get to work in our hospitals and care homes! Those million immigrants will have all their paperwork in order because we supplied them with it. Who is going to wipe Granddads arse if he sends them home? You stop the benefits of people who are able to work but make ZERO attempt to work that’s how The noose around this country’s neck is the inactive that are bleeding us dry so force them to work It really isn’t though, the noose is the people stealing the country’s money in the billions, taking the profits, living in tax havens and trimming back on public services to increase their shareholder return. But it’s a lot easier to blame the poor. They don’t have lawyers. " And the vast majority of benefits go to people who are in work. The amount paid to the unemployed is only about 3%. No need to take my word for it. Richard Murphy, Professor of Accounting at Sheffield University School of Management, has just made a video about it. | |||
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"Only people with something to hide, some past nefarious criminal activity and a guilty conscience would object to having a proper legal ID card. Its all about state control! I object, I have nothing to hide but dont see why the State needs to know my whereabouts at any point in time. And it will have Zero impact on immigration, that's just an excuse." The state already knows exactly where you are and when you go there....your mobile phone | |||
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"Back in the Tony Blair years he was dead set on them but Paddy Pantsdown was against it. In 2006 an act was passed and no compulsory cards were introduced. In a phased approach people on Manchester than then some people in London were eligible to apply. The system had digital component with information on a central database. You could apply to have a passport, an ID card or both. You could not apply for a passport or a card without having details on the system. So card-carrying was optional but IF verification was mandatory. The ConDem coalition was swift in cancelling the scheme and invalidating the cards of those who had paid for them. The various Coalitions of Tory Chaos that followed did not support ID, despite their reputation for seeking to support the management of immigration. Immigration is important here. The only vestitude of the 2006 Act is the use of Identify Cards for Foreign Nationals. When the act was repealed, ICFNs were re-labelled biometric residency permits. Theoretically, an employer should see a biometric residency permit before employing any non-citizen staff. But there are exceptions. If you are a EU national with settled status under the withdrawal agreement, you have the right to work but are not issued with a bio metric residency permit, if you are a citizen of the Republic of Ireland and resident of the United Kingdom, you are not issued with a biometric residency permit, and if you are a citizen of the UK, you don’t have an equivalent to a residency permit because you’re a citizen. So anybody can say to a prospective employer that they are a citizen, or an Irish citizen or an EU citizen with settled status at that point an employer is not entitled to ask for proof of the above. Therefore, people without the right to work may very well be working. Because civil liberties. Can’t be expected to be honest as to who I am. I’m Irish, I do not have any UK identification documentation. I can legally work in the United Kingdom. I do. My employer asked me if I had the right to work in the UK. I said yes. They ticked a box. I offered my Irish identification card, which is called an Irish “passport card” but it is in effect an ID card, and they said that’s nice, but we don’t know how to inspect these so we have to take you at your word. My HR team are trained at first line inspections of biometric residency permits and passports. If we had physical ID cards for citizens and for other residents not required to carry residency cards or even better if we had ID cards for everybody citizen or not who was allowed to live in the UK, and including their work authorisation status, it would make it a lot easier for employers to only employ people who legally they were allowed to employ. This would make it much more difficult for people to work in the black market. One of the lesser understood reasons in the UK for our migrant crisis, is that it’s really difficult to work in most parts of continental Europe without legal status, because most places in Europe have ID cards. Cards are issued in Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Czechia, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, and Sweden. Of the countries of Western Europe only Denmark, the UK and Ireland do not have a national ID system - though Ireland uses the Passport Card and Denmark has a range of Local Government run systems. Is the UK the only democracy in Western Europe unable to manage a system? Are Sweden, Malta and Luxembourg really fascist dictatorships in disguise? Introducing passport cards or ID cards or right-to-work cards or whatever one called them, for everyone wouldn’t solve the migrant crisis but would make it much more difficult to work illegally, and therefore make Britain much less enticing for people who are coming here as illegal Economic migrants. When Britain last had a national ID scheme, up until 1953, people could be asked to present their ID documents by the police. This was a hangover from the war. My understanding is that the new scheme does not require you to carry anything, just to have your ID on a national System. This should allow authorised users to verify your identity, including your right to work. I think the government should go farther, and give people the option of obtaining a physical card similar to the Irish passport card. I think it should be contactless like in a lot of the European schemes. It could then auto-ping a system and verify details without details being shared across the wires. Having a card in one’s wallet ready to be presented to a prospective employer, as ID when checking in at the Vet who insisted I return with a passport this week, getting on a internal flight or registering with a GP, et cetera would all be smoother if you did. In effect most people use driving licences as ID cards. But you can get a driving licences without the right to work here. You also can decide than you value a reduced carbon footprint and not want to drive. Or fail your test repeatedly. I am not bitter. There are those who say it is an invasion of civil liberties. Therefore don’t make it obligatory to carry it, don’t make it obligatory to get a physical copy, but allow those to see the benefits of it to have the choice and I think you are respecting the preferences of both of those groups who oppose and support the documentation. " Ok as a settled EU resident there is an online portal where employers can verify you are who you say. You have an NI number and that can also be used to clarify concerns with NHS. This scheme is going to cost billions. And maintenance costs of billions a year going forward. It will be run and managed by American corporations. It is a complete gravy train and should be resisted at all costs. The civil liberties angle is also valid complaint , but the biggest issue here is that it has minimal utility and horrendous cost. Some Plantir lobby pal is promising Starmer good press coverage, and perhaps a few nice dinners. Biometric id is a gadget we do not need and frankly, something we can't afford to pay for. | |||
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"The Tories in their last year in office let one million people in perfectly legally to do the jobs we Brits don’t like doing. Farage can’t tell us who he’s going to get to work in our hospitals and care homes! Those million immigrants will have all their paperwork in order because we supplied them with it. Who is going to wipe Granddads arse if he sends them home? You stop the benefits of people who are able to work but make ZERO attempt to work that’s how The noose around this country’s neck is the inactive that are bleeding us dry so force them to work It really isn’t though, the noose is the people stealing the country’s money in the billions, taking the profits, living in tax havens and trimming back on public services to increase their shareholder return. But it’s a lot easier to blame the poor. They don’t have lawyers. And the vast majority of benefits go to people who are in work. The amount paid to the unemployed is only about 3%. No need to take my word for it. Richard Murphy, Professor of Accounting at Sheffield University School of Management, has just made a video about it. " A very good point and just shows the problems we have, working people cannot afford basics. But it is those working people who are to blame. Not the people who have all the money and refuse to pay their share. | |||
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"Physical cards, maybe. But given Blair-Starmer's obsession with digital technology, we will be required to buy the latest whizzo mobile phone and put our digital ID on that. To be shared with Google, Apple and Wunhunglo Phones in Shenzhian. Cost? Invisible updates? OLd farts like me who are struggling with Android 12? Blair-Starmer's a lawyer. WTF does he know or care? It's a gimmick, and it will just make the black economy blacker." Your argument is founded on a premise you made up, it doesn’t have any foundation in known fact. | |||
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"Physical cards, maybe. But given Blair-Starmer's obsession with digital technology, we will be required to buy the latest whizzo mobile phone and put our digital ID on that. To be shared with Google, Apple and Wunhunglo Phones in Shenzhian. Cost? Invisible updates? OLd farts like me who are struggling with Android 12? Blair-Starmer's a lawyer. WTF does he know or care? It's a gimmick, and it will just make the black economy blacker. Your argument is founded on a premise you made up, it doesn’t have any foundation in known fact. " Pardon me for failing to supply references to learned journals, Professor. My premiss is founded on the very sound assumption that the digital market is in a state of constant flux, and that innovations tend to require new technology. I doubt very much that a seecure ID scheme can even be implemented on an old phone, but I am forced to speculate in the absence of any meaningful information at all on the proposed methodology. And it's pretty clear to me that Google,welded to my Samsung phone, already has more information on me, without asking me, than I am comfortable with. So wind your omnipresent neck in, please. Save it for the brown people. | |||
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"Physical cards, maybe. But given Blair-Starmer's obsession with digital technology, we will be required to buy the latest whizzo mobile phone and put our digital ID on that. To be shared with Google, Apple and Wunhunglo Phones in Shenzhian. Cost? Invisible updates? OLd farts like me who are struggling with Android 12? Blair-Starmer's a lawyer. WTF does he know or care? It's a gimmick, and it will just make the black economy blacker. Your argument is founded on a premise you made up, it doesn’t have any foundation in known fact. Pardon me for failing to supply references to learned journals, Professor. My premiss is founded on the very sound assumption that the digital market is in a state of constant flux, and that innovations tend to require new technology. I doubt very much that a seecure ID scheme can even be implemented on an old phone, but I am forced to speculate in the absence of any meaningful information at all on the proposed methodology. And it's pretty clear to me that Google,welded to my Samsung phone, already has more information on me, without asking me, than I am comfortable with. So wind your omnipresent neck in, please. Save it for the brown people. " Touch a nerve? The only point I made was that your concerns are predicated on something happening that has no evidence of being in planning. And accusing others of omnipresence howsoever accurate can be accompanied by accusations of hypocrisy. | |||
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"Stop all illegals that's a good idea. Then who's going to do all the crappy jobs us legal ppl will not do. When there's no strawberries or other soft fruit in the shops . No hops for your beer. Toilets not cleaned. Who will you blame then. " So - you endorse illegal migration because it gives us a work-force of foreign serfs prepared to do menial jobs too many born here are not prepared to do because they’d rather live on benefits and income support. “Crappy” jobs some people “will not do”. And therein lies exactly what’s wrong with the UK in 2025 and the terrible, terrible mess we’re in. Your apathetic mindset. 65 years ago nobody was too proud, too feckless and too idle to pick the crops or clean the factory toilets if they wanted some money to buy food. How soft and rotten we’ve become. | |||
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" 65 years ago nobody was too proud, too feckless and too idle to pick the crops or clean the factory toilets if they wanted some money to buy food. How soft and rotten we’ve become. " I mean that’s bollocks isn’t it? This romanticisation of the past that the UK was full of conscientious hard working honest people is pathetic and stands to no scrutiny at all! These same horseshit complaints were being bandied around then just as they are now and were in the generations before. Another thing which doesn’t change is the levels of self awareness in the people parroting this utter guff. | |||
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" 65 years ago nobody was too proud, too feckless and too idle to pick the crops or clean the factory toilets if they wanted some money to buy food. How soft and rotten we’ve become. I mean that’s bollocks isn’t it? ." Actually it isn’’t , might seem that way to a child of the eighties . | |||
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" 65 years ago nobody was too proud, too feckless and too idle to pick the crops or clean the factory toilets if they wanted some money to buy food. How soft and rotten we’ve become. I mean that’s bollocks isn’t it? . Actually it isn’’t , might seem that way to a child of the eighties . " Well you weren’t born 65 years ago either so it’s a remarkable feat of clairvoyance on your part. Not to say a fucking tedious example of the same old rose tinted nostalgia which blights men and women of your superannuated vintage and has done since humans first slithered out of the sea. | |||
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"Myopia and ignorance all to common today in those who live in their own echo chamber " Nostalgia being a prime example. | |||
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"Myopia and ignorance all to common today in those who live in their own echo chamber Nostalgia being a prime example. " You can say that again…gain…ain.. | |||
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"Myopia and ignorance all to common today in those who live in their own echo chamber Nostalgia being a prime example. " Nostalgia aint what it used to be | |||
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"Myopia and ignorance all to common today in those who live in their own echo chamber Nostalgia being a prime example. Nostalgia aint what it used to be " 😆 | |||
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" 65 years ago nobody was too proud, too feckless and too idle to pick the crops or clean the factory toilets if they wanted some money to buy food. … This romanticisation of the past that the UK was full of conscientious hard working honest people is pathetic and stands to no scrutiny at all! " Who’s claimed the past is only full of conscientious, hard-working, honest people..?! You always create straw men so you can rail at those. I wrote “if they wanted some money to buy food.” I’ve pointed out that you couldn’t just sit on your arse and claim freebies in the style you can today, hence people then being forced to do unglamorous work like cleaning and crop-picking to get by. The tasks the contributor above to whom I was replying claimed no-one today is prepared to do as they are “crappy”. You’ve predictably had nothing to say about that of course. Just made a straw man that I am “romanticising the past”. 🙄 | |||
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" 65 years ago nobody was too proud, too feckless and too idle to pick the crops or clean the factory toilets if they wanted some money to buy food. … This romanticisation of the past that the UK was full of conscientious hard working honest people is pathetic and stands to no scrutiny at all! Who’s claimed the past is only full of conscientious, hard-working, honest people..?! You always create straw men so you can rail at those. I wrote “if they wanted some money to buy food.” I’ve pointed out that you couldn’t just sit on your arse and claim freebies in the style you can today, hence people then being forced to do unglamorous work like cleaning and crop-picking to get by. The tasks the contributor above to whom I was replying claimed no-one today is prepared to do as they are “crappy”. You’ve predictably had nothing to say about that of course. Just made a straw man that I am “romanticising the past”. 🙄 " Sorry pal but you have missed entirely and hit the wall, ironically doing the very thing you accuse me of. Then in your attempt to undermine me, done the same thing again, proving my point very well. Thank you. I have summed up both the paragraph I was replying to and the overall archetype, I’m sorry it’s not something you like to read and you would rather go on a tedious ad-hominem rant avoiding the point but I don’t suppose anything is going to change, I expect, from experience, your response to this will be more of the same still avoiding the point. | |||
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"Well most of us have a driving licence so that’s one formal I’d most of us care " Sorry? | |||
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"I have a NI number, passport, driving license, birth certificate and NHS number, why do I need to have a digital ID?" Because fraud is on the increase, and the traditional methods of ID you mention can easily be bypassed. Similar to driving tests being taken on behalf of other people, the same is happening with job applications. People with no right to work in the UK are successfully applying for well-paid jobs that they can work on remotely such as IT, Project Management etc. They are using fake details and paying someone else to do the interview on their behalf, or in some cases, using corrupt employment agencies to bypass this stage altogether. | |||
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"We all carry ID cards anyway, driving licence , passport and your NI number is your digital ID. I have am ID card for Germany as I have duel nationality for there, they are taken seriously, when I was based in Germany with the army and on duty id send home any civvie contractors if they didnt produce their ID card, either go home and get it or dont come on camp." But the overwhelming argument given by Labour is it’ll stop illegal migration. How will me having digital ID stop people coming over on the boats and working illegally? Anyone employing people illegally won’t care about digital ID. We already have laws to stop that. | |||
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"We all carry ID cards anyway, driving licence , passport and your NI number is your digital ID. I have am ID card for Germany as I have duel nationality for there, they are taken seriously, when I was based in Germany with the army and on duty id send home any civvie contractors if they didnt produce their ID card, either go home and get it or dont come on camp. But the overwhelming argument given by Labour is it’ll stop illegal migration. How will me having digital ID stop people coming over on the boats and working illegally? Anyone employing people illegally won’t care about digital ID. We already have laws to stop that. " The idea is that many come here because we have such a large black market in illegal workers. Having a digital i.d makes it faster to check I assume than papers. It works well for millions in other European countries so why not here? | |||
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"We all carry ID cards anyway, driving licence , passport and your NI number is your digital ID. I have am ID card for Germany as I have duel nationality for there, they are taken seriously, when I was based in Germany with the army and on duty id send home any civvie contractors if they didnt produce their ID card, either go home and get it or dont come on camp. But the overwhelming argument given by Labour is it’ll stop illegal migration. How will me having digital ID stop people coming over on the boats and working illegally? Anyone employing people illegally won’t care about digital ID. We already have laws to stop that. The idea is that many come here because we have such a large black market in illegal workers. Having a digital i.d makes it faster to check I assume than papers. It works well for millions in other European countries so why not here? " Because we are freedom loving Brits! | |||
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"We all carry ID cards anyway, driving licence , passport and your NI number is your digital ID. I have am ID card for Germany as I have duel nationality for there, they are taken seriously, when I was based in Germany with the army and on duty id send home any civvie contractors if they didnt produce their ID card, either go home and get it or dont come on camp. But the overwhelming argument given by Labour is it’ll stop illegal migration. How will me having digital ID stop people coming over on the boats and working illegally? Anyone employing people illegally won’t care about digital ID. We already have laws to stop that. The idea is that many come here because we have such a large black market in illegal workers. Having a digital i.d makes it faster to check I assume than papers. It works well for millions in other European countries so why not here? Because we are freedom loving Brits!" There’s no free doms left | |||
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"We all carry ID cards anyway, driving licence , passport and your NI number is your digital ID. I have am ID card for Germany as I have duel nationality for there, they are taken seriously, when I was based in Germany with the army and on duty id send home any civvie contractors if they didnt produce their ID card, either go home and get it or dont come on camp. But the overwhelming argument given by Labour is it’ll stop illegal migration. How will me having digital ID stop people coming over on the boats and working illegally? Anyone employing people illegally won’t care about digital ID. We already have laws to stop that. The idea is that many come here because we have such a large black market in illegal workers. Having a digital i.d makes it faster to check I assume than papers. It works well for millions in other European countries so why not here? Because we are freedom loving Brits! There’s no free doms left " I don't charge  | |||
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"Apathy is our enemy ,they are counting on us to lie down and let it happen , stand up Britain,and defy communism and comrade starmer" Lol | |||
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"Apathy is our enemy ,they are counting on us to lie down and let it happen , stand up Britain,and defy communism and comrade starmer" I'm not sure you realise the irony in that comment. | |||
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"Apathy is our enemy ,they are counting on us to lie down and let it happen , stand up Britain,and defy communism and comrade starmer" Hang on, a minute ago he was right wing. You lot can’t make up your mind. | |||
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" 65 years ago nobody was too proud, too feckless and too idle to pick the crops or clean the factory toilets if they wanted some money to buy food. … This romanticisation of the past that the UK was full of conscientious hard working honest people is pathetic and stands to no scrutiny at all! Who’s claimed the past is only full of conscientious, hard-working, honest people..?! You always create straw men so you can rail at those. I wrote “if they wanted some money to buy food.” I’ve pointed out that you couldn’t just sit on your arse and claim freebies in the style you can today, hence people then being forced to do unglamorous work like cleaning and crop-picking to get by. The tasks the contributor above to whom I was replying claimed no-one today is prepared to do as they are “crappy”. You’ve predictably had nothing to say about that of course. Just made a straw man that I am “romanticising the past”. 🙄 Sorry pal but you have missed entirely and hit the wall, ironically doing the very thing you accuse me of. Then in your attempt to undermine me, done the same thing again, proving my point very well. Thank you. I have summed up both the paragraph I was replying to and the overall archetype, I’m sorry it’s not something you like to read and you would rather go on a tedious ad-hominem rant avoiding the point but I don’t suppose anything is going to change, I expect, from experience, your response to this will be more of the same still avoiding the point. " A lot of verbiage but little clarity. You always think everyone “proves your point”… no matter what they say. And ad hominem would mean I could give 2 figs about you (which I don’t), I just put a counter argument about what you are saying. Do you think cleaning and crop-picking jobs are “crappy”? Why do you think people were prepared to do these jobs 65 years ago in a way they are clearly not today? Do you think people refusing to do such jobs but receiving some level of income support or benefits is a problem or not for our economy and society? Is it a good or bad thing for the UK to have to bring in low-paid foreign workers to do such jobs? Do you think UK workers need to do these jobs ourselves or not? I would - very genuinely - be interested to hear your views on this. | |||
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" 65 years ago nobody was too proud, too feckless and too idle to pick the crops or clean the factory toilets if they wanted some money to buy food. … This romanticisation of the past that the UK was full of conscientious hard working honest people is pathetic and stands to no scrutiny at all! Who’s claimed the past is only full of conscientious, hard-working, honest people..?! You always create straw men so you can rail at those. I wrote “if they wanted some money to buy food.” I’ve pointed out that you couldn’t just sit on your arse and claim freebies in the style you can today, hence people then being forced to do unglamorous work like cleaning and crop-picking to get by. The tasks the contributor above to whom I was replying claimed no-one today is prepared to do as they are “crappy”. You’ve predictably had nothing to say about that of course. Just made a straw man that I am “romanticising the past”. 🙄 Sorry pal but you have missed entirely and hit the wall, ironically doing the very thing you accuse me of. Then in your attempt to undermine me, done the same thing again, proving my point very well. Thank you. I have summed up both the paragraph I was replying to and the overall archetype, I’m sorry it’s not something you like to read and you would rather go on a tedious ad-hominem rant avoiding the point but I don’t suppose anything is going to change, I expect, from experience, your response to this will be more of the same still avoiding the point. A lot of verbiage but little clarity. You always think everyone “proves your point”… no matter what they say. And ad hominem would mean I could give 2 figs about you (which I don’t), I just put a counter argument about what you are saying. Do you think cleaning and crop-picking jobs are “crappy”? Why do you think people were prepared to do these jobs 65 years ago in a way they are clearly not today? Do you think people refusing to do such jobs but receiving some level of income support or benefits is a problem or not for our economy and society? Is it a good or bad thing for the UK to have to bring in low-paid foreign workers to do such jobs? Do you think UK workers need to do these jobs ourselves or not? I would - very genuinely - be interested to hear your views on this." Well the idea that people were prepared to do them back in the day is nonsense, there was a huge influx of transient workers from other countries and there has been for many many years. It was also the case that education in the Uk meant that many people had no prospect of any other sort of work and therefore had little or no choice, but we have improved that now and we bother to educate people such that they can go into different roles. That’s no bad thing at all, but it doesn’t account for the nonsense assertion that there was no significant transient foreign workforce 65 years ago. I’m sorry you don’t like my consistent use of words and instead of proving me wrong you prefer to try to undermine with non related attacks, but if the same phenomena are present, it’s helpful to use the same terminology. Maybe change the record and we can use different words to describe it? I also note that none of the people here complaining about it are offering to give up their cushy office jobs to go tattie picking. | |||
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" 65 years ago nobody was too proud, too feckless and too idle to pick the crops or clean the factory toilets if they wanted some money to buy food. … This romanticisation of the past that the UK was full of conscientious hard working honest people is pathetic and stands to no scrutiny at all! Who’s claimed the past is only full of conscientious, hard-working, honest people..?! You always create straw men so you can rail at those. I wrote “if they wanted some money to buy food.” I’ve pointed out that you couldn’t just sit on your arse and claim freebies in the style you can today, hence people then being forced to do unglamorous work like cleaning and crop-picking to get by. The tasks the contributor above to whom I was replying claimed no-one today is prepared to do as they are “crappy”. You’ve predictably had nothing to say about that of course. Just made a straw man that I am “romanticising the past”. 🙄 Sorry pal but you have missed entirely and hit the wall, ironically doing the very thing you accuse me of. Then in your attempt to undermine me, done the same thing again, proving my point very well. Thank you. I have summed up both the paragraph I was replying to and the overall archetype, I’m sorry it’s not something you like to read and you would rather go on a tedious ad-hominem rant avoiding the point but I don’t suppose anything is going to change, I expect, from experience, your response to this will be more of the same still avoiding the point. A lot of verbiage but little clarity. You always think everyone “proves your point”… no matter what they say. And ad hominem would mean I could give 2 figs about you (which I don’t), I just put a counter argument about what you are saying. Do you think cleaning and crop-picking jobs are “crappy”? Why do you think people were prepared to do these jobs 65 years ago in a way they are clearly not today? Do you think people refusing to do such jobs but receiving some level of income support or benefits is a problem or not for our economy and society? Is it a good or bad thing for the UK to have to bring in low-paid foreign workers to do such jobs? Do you think UK workers need to do these jobs ourselves or not? I would - very genuinely - be interested to hear your views on this. Well the idea that people were prepared to do them back in the day is nonsense, there was a huge influx of transient workers from other countries and there has been for many many years. It was also the case that education in the Uk meant that many people had no prospect of any other sort of work and therefore had little or no choice, but we have improved that now and we bother to educate people such that they can go into different roles. That’s no bad thing at all, but it doesn’t account for the nonsense assertion that there was no significant transient foreign workforce 65 years ago. I’m sorry you don’t like my consistent use of words and instead of proving me wrong you prefer to try to undermine with non related attacks, but if the same phenomena are present, it’s helpful to use the same terminology. Maybe change the record and we can use different words to describe it? I also note that none of the people here complaining about it are offering to give up their cushy office jobs to go tattie picking." There’s simply no point discussing anything with you. It’s impossible for you to answer anything directly. You’re so suffused with yourself. Are you sure you’re not a politician? | |||
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"There’s simply no point discussing anything with you. It’s impossible for you to answer anything directly. You’re so suffused with yourself. Are you sure you’re not a politician?" Not liking my answers is not the same as them not being answers. Feel free to point of out where they are indirect and then feel free to stop deflecting from them and avoiding the points they make which you don’t like. | |||
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"We all carry ID cards anyway, driving licence , passport and your NI number is your digital ID. I have am ID card for Germany as I have duel nationality for there, they are taken seriously, when I was based in Germany with the army and on duty id send home any civvie contractors if they didnt produce their ID card, either go home and get it or dont come on camp. But the overwhelming argument given by Labour is it’ll stop illegal migration. How will me having digital ID stop people coming over on the boats and working illegally? Anyone employing people illegally won’t care about digital ID. We already have laws to stop that. The idea is that many come here because we have such a large black market in illegal workers. Having a digital i.d makes it faster to check I assume than papers. It works well for millions in other European countries so why not here? " But if people want to employ illegal workers and pay next to nothing they will, digital ID or not. It’s us law abiding citizens with legitimate ID that’ll be affected. The only option is to collate biometric data on the illegal migrants as soon as they land on our shores which means keeping them in a facility until processed. That’s just like a camp then. Digital ID hasn’t made a jot of difference in other countries that have it. If people want to break the law by working, theft, murder then sadly they will. | |||
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"We all carry ID cards anyway, driving licence , passport and your NI number is your digital ID. I have am ID card for Germany as I have duel nationality for there, they are taken seriously, when I was based in Germany with the army and on duty id send home any civvie contractors if they didnt produce their ID card, either go home and get it or dont come on camp. But the overwhelming argument given by Labour is it’ll stop illegal migration. How will me having digital ID stop people coming over on the boats and working illegally? Anyone employing people illegally won’t care about digital ID. We already have laws to stop that. The idea is that many come here because we have such a large black market in illegal workers. Having a digital i.d makes it faster to check I assume than papers. It works well for millions in other European countries so why not here? But if people want to employ illegal workers and pay next to nothing they will, digital ID or not. It’s us law abiding citizens with legitimate ID that’ll be affected. The only option is to collate biometric data on the illegal migrants as soon as they land on our shores which means keeping them in a facility until processed. That’s just like a camp then. Digital ID hasn’t made a jot of difference in other countries that have it. If people want to break the law by working, theft, murder then sadly they will. " I bet your against the DNA registry as well | |||
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"We all carry ID cards anyway, driving licence , passport and your NI number is your digital ID. I have am ID card for Germany as I have duel nationality for there, they are taken seriously, when I was based in Germany with the army and on duty id send home any civvie contractors if they didnt produce their ID card, either go home and get it or dont come on camp. But the overwhelming argument given by Labour is it’ll stop illegal migration. How will me having digital ID stop people coming over on the boats and working illegally? Anyone employing people illegally won’t care about digital ID. We already have laws to stop that. The idea is that many come here because we have such a large black market in illegal workers. Having a digital i.d makes it faster to check I assume than papers. It works well for millions in other European countries so why not here? But if people want to employ illegal workers and pay next to nothing they will, digital ID or not. It’s us law abiding citizens with legitimate ID that’ll be affected. The only option is to collate biometric data on the illegal migrants as soon as they land on our shores which means keeping them in a facility until processed. That’s just like a camp then. Digital ID hasn’t made a jot of difference in other countries that have it. If people want to break the law by working, theft, murder then sadly they will. I bet your against the DNA registry as well " no we don't. Who carries a £80 passport and not everyone drives | |||
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"If the first dingies were sunk by the navy this debate would not even surface and it would of saved lives in the long run.. " Ooh you cant say that, you will upset the wokeys lol 😆! Thats what i have always said, we'd only have to sink a couple and they'd all stop coming. | |||
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"If the first dingies were sunk by the navy this debate would not even surface and it would of saved lives in the long run.. Ooh you cant say that, you will upset the wokeys lol 😆! Thats what i have always said, we'd only have to sink a couple and they'd all stop coming." But a great many have sunk in the sea killing thousands of people, that hasn’t stopped people so the threat of death is clearly not a factor here? | |||
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"If the first dingies were sunk by the navy this debate would not even surface and it would of saved lives in the long run.. Ooh you cant say that, you will upset the wokeys lol 😆! Thats what i have always said, we'd only have to sink a couple and they'd all stop coming. But a great many have sunk in the sea killing thousands of people, that hasn’t stopped people so the threat of death is clearly not a factor here?" It’s also murder and illegal and not very nice to machine guns kids and babies and all. Still, fly the ol’ “I’m Alright Union Jack” and morals and conscience can go to hell. Stamp on the face of compassion and rip the throat out of sympathy. | |||
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"If the first dingies were sunk by the navy this debate would not even surface and it would of saved lives in the long run.. Ooh you cant say that, you will upset the wokeys lol 😆! Thats what i have always said, we'd only have to sink a couple and they'd all stop coming. But a great many have sunk in the sea killing thousands of people, that hasn’t stopped people so the threat of death is clearly not a factor here? It’s also murder and illegal and not very nice to machine guns kids and babies and all. Still, fly the ol’ “I’m Alright Union Jack” and morals and conscience can go to hell. Stamp on the face of compassion and rip the throat out of sympathy. " My suspicion is that this is just forum bravado from people who wouldn’t say boo to a goose in real life in case the goose said boo back. | |||
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"If the first dingies were sunk by the navy this debate would not even surface and it would of saved lives in the long run.. Ooh you cant say that, you will upset the wokeys lol 😆! Thats what i have always said, we'd only have to sink a couple and they'd all stop coming. But a great many have sunk in the sea killing thousands of people, that hasn’t stopped people so the threat of death is clearly not a factor here? It’s also murder and illegal and not very nice to machine guns kids and babies and all. Still, fly the ol’ “I’m Alright Union Jack” and morals and conscience can go to hell. Stamp on the face of compassion and rip the throat out of sympathy. My suspicion is that this is just forum bravado from people who wouldn’t say boo to a goose in real life in case the goose said boo back." Let’s see how long it takes them to come back with what they think is a witty, cutting remark. | |||
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"If the first five dingies were sunk there would be no trade . " Many more than 5 dinghies have sunk, many hundreds, but yet here we are. | |||
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"If the first five dingies were sunk there would be no trade . Many more than 5 dinghies have sunk, many hundreds, but yet here we are. " Where do you get those figures , not even the government claim hundreds | |||
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"If the first five dingies were sunk there would be no trade . Many more than 5 dinghies have sunk, many hundreds, but yet here we are. Where do you get those figures , not even the government claim hundreds " I’m talking about not just the channel, but across the whole of the med and the channel. The point is sinking boats, of which there have been a great many, isn’t deterring people so the fake bravado about sinking boats of helpless people in the sea is just horseshit bravado without any substance behind it whatsoever. | |||
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"If the first five dingies were sunk there would be no trade . Many more than 5 dinghies have sunk, many hundreds, but yet here we are. Where do you get those figures , not even the government claim hundreds " What you mean the number is made up? | |||
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"If the first five dingies were sunk there would be no trade . Many more than 5 dinghies have sunk, many hundreds, but yet here we are. Where do you get those figures , not even the government claim hundreds I’m talking about not just the channel, but across the whole of the med and the channel. The point is sinking boats, of which there have been a great many, isn’t deterring people so the fake bravado about sinking boats of helpless people in the sea is just horseshit bravado without any substance behind it whatsoever." Try to be more clear in your generalisations and click bait mentality other wise we might miss an actual point that has any validity | |||
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"If the first five dingies were sunk there would be no trade . Many more than 5 dinghies have sunk, many hundreds, but yet here we are. Where do you get those figures , not even the government claim hundreds I’m talking about not just the channel, but across the whole of the med and the channel. The point is sinking boats, of which there have been a great many, isn’t deterring people so the fake bravado about sinking boats of helpless people in the sea is just horseshit bravado without any substance behind it whatsoever. Try to be more clear in your generalisations and click bait mentality other wise we might miss an actual point that has any validity " Maybe try making one yourself and there might be some in response? Charity starts at home after all. I notice you have ignored all the posts with details on them to enable you to pick an argument. | |||
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"If the first five dingies were sunk there would be no trade . Many more than 5 dinghies have sunk, many hundreds, but yet here we are. Where do you get those figures , not even the government claim hundreds I’m talking about not just the channel, but across the whole of the med and the channel. The point is sinking boats, of which there have been a great many, isn’t deterring people so the fake bravado about sinking boats of helpless people in the sea is just horseshit bravado without any substance behind it whatsoever. Try to be more clear in your generalisations and click bait mentality other wise we might miss an actual point that has any validity Maybe try making one yourself and there might be some in response? Charity starts at home after all. I notice you have ignored all the posts with details on them to enable you to pick an argument." No argument just happy the winter months are here , less chance of those pesky boats crossing and should an unfortunate boat get into distress at least there will be less flotsam and jetsam for the dog walkers to step over no mater how few | |||
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"If the first five dingies were sunk there would be no trade . Many more than 5 dinghies have sunk, many hundreds, but yet here we are. Where do you get those figures , not even the government claim hundreds I’m talking about not just the channel, but across the whole of the med and the channel. The point is sinking boats, of which there have been a great many, isn’t deterring people so the fake bravado about sinking boats of helpless people in the sea is just horseshit bravado without any substance behind it whatsoever. Try to be more clear in your generalisations and click bait mentality other wise we might miss an actual point that has any validity Maybe try making one yourself and there might be some in response? Charity starts at home after all. I notice you have ignored all the posts with details on them to enable you to pick an argument. No argument just happy the winter months are here , less chance of those pesky boats crossing and should an unfortunate boat get into distress at least there will be less flotsam and jetsam for the dog walkers to step over no mater how few" Yes supposed to be a storm on the way should reduce the traffic I guess .  | |||
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"1066, the year thousands of people came over from France in boats and took over England. Irony?" not really we did like it then either | |||
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"1066, the year thousands of people came over from France in boats and took over England. Irony? not really we did like it then either "But now you celebrate it as part of your identity. Vive le immigrant!! | |||
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"1066, the year thousands of people came over from France in boats and took over England. Irony? not really we did like it then either
But now you celebrate it as part of your identity.
Vive le immigrant!! "Halley’s Comet not some away day booze cruise from Normandy, | |||
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"1066, the year thousands of people came over from France in boats and took over England. Irony? not really we did like it then either
But now you celebrate it as part of your identity.
Vive le immigrant!!
Halley’s Comet not some away day booze cruise from Normandy, "Why 1066 then and not all the other years it has come round? | |||
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"Some missing the point here. Dingies sinking in heavy seas or because they are overloaded are no deterrent. But a fleet of U boats with periscopes and modern torpedoes blowing every single one if these chancers out of the water would have stopped this evil trade in its tracks " Hey, Tom, maybe some bits of babies would wash up on an Essex beach. | |||
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"Some missing the point here. Dingies sinking in heavy seas or because they are overloaded are no deterrent. But a fleet of U boats with periscopes and modern torpedoes blowing every single one if these chancers out of the water would have stopped this evil trade in its tracks Hey, Tom, maybe some bits of babies would wash up on an Essex beach. " The point being ? | |||
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"Some missing the point here. Dingies sinking in heavy seas or because they are overloaded are no deterrent. But a fleet of U boats with periscopes and modern torpedoes blowing every single one if these chancers out of the water would have stopped this evil trade in its tracks " Great idear but navy only got 5 subs | |||
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"Some missing the point here. Dingies sinking in heavy seas or because they are overloaded are no deterrent. But a fleet of U boats with periscopes and modern torpedoes blowing every single one if these chancers out of the water would have stopped this evil trade in its tracks " Curiously one sided use of the word evil. | |||
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"Some missing the point here. Dingies sinking in heavy seas or because they are overloaded are no deterrent. But a fleet of U boats with periscopes and modern torpedoes blowing every single one if these chancers out of the water would have stopped this evil trade in its tracks " Hmm whos the evil ones in this scenero | |||
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"They break the law entering the country ID wont stop them Employers risk a £10,000 fine now per illegal Again an ID card won't stop them" Deport anyone caught working illegally immediately and close down any business employing them. Seize all the business owners assets. Problem solved. | |||
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"Some missing the point here. Dingies sinking in heavy seas or because they are overloaded are no deterrent. But a fleet of U boats with periscopes and modern torpedoes blowing every single one if these chancers out of the water would have stopped this evil trade in its tracks Hey, Tom, maybe some bits of babies would wash up on an Essex beach. The point being ?" Exactly wouldn't lose any sleep over it should've stayed in france and not took the risk bringing their baby on a dangerous trip | |||
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"Some missing the point here. Dingies sinking in heavy seas or because they are overloaded are no deterrent. But a fleet of U boats with periscopes and modern torpedoes blowing every single one if these chancers out of the water would have stopped this evil trade in its tracks Hey, Tom, maybe some bits of babies would wash up on an Essex beach. " You've just given him an orgasm  | |||
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"Some missing the point here. Dingies sinking in heavy seas or because they are overloaded are no deterrent. But a fleet of U boats with periscopes and modern torpedoes blowing every single one if these chancers out of the water would have stopped this evil trade in its tracks Hey, Tom, maybe some bits of babies would wash up on an Essex beach. You've just given him an orgasm "Who cares ? | |||
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"Some missing the point here. Dingies sinking in heavy seas or because they are overloaded are no deterrent. But a fleet of U boats with periscopes and modern torpedoes blowing every single one if these chancers out of the water would have stopped this evil trade in its tracks Hey, Tom, maybe some bits of babies would wash up on an Essex beach. You've just given him an orgasm
Who cares ?"You, clearly you do, you keep trying to start more arguments. | |||
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