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"Free speech is an illusion has not existed in my lifetime and I am in my 70's " Absolutely spot on. | |||
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"It's called 'free' speech. " No it isn't   xx | |||
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"Ye, this isn't America. We don't have free speech in the UK. Sadly." You're correct, we don't. We have freedom of expression xx | |||
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"Ye, this isn't America. We don't have free speech in the UK. Sadly. You're correct, we don't. We have freedom of expression xx"Unless you express the wrong thing. | |||
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"Ye, this isn't America. We don't have free speech in the UK. Sadly. However, if I am right in that, that chant, means a call to violence, then yeh it is the right thing to do." Let's ban "Onward Christian Soldiers" too, then. /hey....not a bad idea either... | |||
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"Now Tom has never attended any political march or cause. Apparently the Chief of Police and the Government will now sanction arrests on pro Palestine marches if the protesters display signs or chant the slogan, Globalise In****da. I am not sure if that phrase is good or bad but what the F is going on here? Genuinly confused.com" Maybe you should look up what the phrase means before posting another thread on here. | |||
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"We’re talking in the third person, now, are we? Copying Trump or has your id taken over? "Yes, I pointed out to hi. That trump did it and now he thinks its funny to do the same thing.. | |||
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"Now Tom has never attended any political march or cause. Apparently the Chief of Police and the Government will now sanction arrests on pro Palestine marches if the protesters display signs or chant the slogan, Globalise In****da. I am not sure if that phrase is good or bad but what the F is going on here? Genuinly confused.com" Fine everyone of them who chants it £5000 each and if they don't pay, then jail them until they do | |||
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"Just Ban Pro Palesistine Marches or Anti Israel. Whichever you prefer to call them. " Agree fully | |||
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"Ye, this isn't America. We don't have free speech in the UK. Sadly. However, if I am right in that, that chant, means a call to violence, then yeh it is the right thing to do." Do you condemn far right calls for violence ? Is homophobia "free speech" ? | |||
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"Just Ban Pro Palesistine Marches or Anti Israel. Whichever you prefer to call them. " Let's ban anti-muslim hate marches too. | |||
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"A lot of people confuse the concept of free speech with the very different concept of "consequence free speech". We DO have free speech and you're free to express whatever opinions you like. What you can't do in the UK (and rightly so) is incite others to violence or to express support for proscribed organisations. Some speech has consequences, and the world would be a better place if people recognised that and maybe gave some considered thought to moderating their behaviour and language at times. Calling for a group of people to be exterminated for example is not an example of free speech. " Well said. | |||
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"A lot of people confuse the concept of free speech with the very different concept of "consequence free speech". We DO have free speech and you're free to express whatever opinions you like. What you can't do in the UK (and rightly so) is incite others to violence or to express support for proscribed organisations. Some speech has consequences, and the world would be a better place if people recognised that and maybe gave some considered thought to moderating their behaviour and language at times. Calling for a group of people to be exterminated for example is not an example of free speech. " How about calling for a group of people NOT to be exterminated? Sounds harmless, but it's now forbidden under our great democracy. | |||
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"We’re talking in the third person, now, are we? Copying Trump or has your id taken over?
Yes, I pointed out to hi. That trump did it and now he thinks its funny to do the same thing.."I’m starting to think he’s not entirely well or has been radicalised by spending too much time deep diving Russian funded far right disinformation groups. | |||
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"How about calling for a group of people NOT to be exterminated? Sounds harmless, but it's now forbidden under our great democracy." That's interesting, I've never seen that, can you point me to where that happened? | |||
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"How about calling for a group of people NOT to be exterminated? Sounds harmless, but it's now forbidden under our great democracy. That's interesting, I've never seen that, can you point me to where that happened? " Every pro-Palestine demonstration. It's not as though Israeli govt's desire to exterminate Palestinians is something they've kept hidden. They actually brag about it. | |||
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"Just Ban Pro Palesistine Marches or Anti Israel. Whichever you prefer to call them. Let's ban anti-muslim hate marches too." What continues to baffle me is the disparity in attitudes regarding Muslims and Jews. We need to free ourselves from the perpetuated trope of Jew as eternal victim, especially where history reveals them to be, for a large part, the instigators. Yet the majority of the world remain too ovine to challenge this. Only then will the emperor be exposed as being truly naked.  | |||
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"How about calling for a group of people NOT to be exterminated? Sounds harmless, but it's now forbidden under our great democracy. That's interesting, I've never seen that, can you point me to where that happened? Every pro-Palestine demonstration. It's not as though Israeli govt's desire to exterminate Palestinians is something they've kept hidden. They actually brag about it. " Given that you offer no evidence for an arrest "for asking for a group not to be exterminated", and offered merely that a few arrests have happened at a pro Palestine march, then I'm going to suggest you're being wilfully disingenuous and arguing in bad faith. The arrests that have occurred at such marches were for showing support for proscribed organisations, and I suspect you well know this. The fact that pro Palestine marches have gone ahead almost weekly for two years with very low charge/ arrest / prosecution shows your argument position to be utterly false. It's very simple... your right to protest in the UK is upheld and you're free to air your views, but support for proscribed organisations is a different matter. | |||
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"Just Ban Pro Palesistine Marches or Anti Israel. Whichever you prefer to call them. Let's ban anti-muslim hate marches too. What continues to baffle me is the disparity in attitudes regarding Muslims and Jews. We need to free ourselves from the perpetuated trope of Jew as eternal victim, especially where history reveals them to be, for a large part, the instigators. Yet the majority of the world remain too ovine to challenge this. Only then will the emperor be exposed as being truly naked. "Although clearly rooted in religions, if that aspect is left to one side (I know how daft that sounds but bear with me), what we have is neighboring countries gouging land from each other… same as most wars/conflicts…religion is often the justification used .. to no one’s credit. So take out religion and shout ‘down with Russia’ about the Ukraine war… no one gets arrested, try the same with ‘down with Israel’…would there be a different outcome as ‘anti semitism ‘ comes riding in? But I shouted Israel, not Jews.. | |||
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"Just Ban Pro Palesistine Marches or Anti Israel. Whichever you prefer to call them. Let's ban anti-muslim hate marches too. What continues to baffle me is the disparity in attitudes regarding Muslims and Jews. We need to free ourselves from the perpetuated trope of Jew as eternal victim, especially where history reveals them to be, for a large part, the instigators. Yet the majority of the world remain too ovine to challenge this. Only then will the emperor be exposed as being truly naked.
Although clearly rooted in religions, if that aspect is left to one side (I know how daft that sounds but bear with me), what we have is neighboring countries gouging land from each other… same as most wars/conflicts…religion is often the justification used .. to no one’s credit.
So take out religion and shout ‘down with Russia’ about the Ukraine war… no one gets arrested, try the same with ‘down with Israel’…would there be a different outcome as ‘anti semitism ‘ comes riding in? But I shouted Israel, not Jews.."Spot on. Fundamentally i see little difference between the two conficts yet with one the world villifies the aggressor, with the other it supports it. It makes no sense to me. You are correct in your analysis regarding anti-Semitism, no one dares stick their head above the parapet for fear of being so accused. It hardly seems to me to be the worst thing one could be accused of. There is also a racial aspect here. With Russia/Ukraine it's white against white, with Israel/Palestine it's white against brown. In attempting to avoid accusations of anti-Semitism such people are themselves inadvertantly being racist. | |||
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"Interfada is a racist term used by followers of one religion against everyone who does not choose to be subjugated by that religion." Perhaps 'interfada' is, but intifada isn't. | |||
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"These marches are pointless in the first place , nothing good ever happens because of them . What ever they are about . " It's a day out for them ... They enjoy the event and get to feel that their tribe is making a show of power in numbers on a public stage. | |||
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"These marches are pointless in the first place , nothing good ever happens because of them . What ever they are about . It's a day out for them ... They enjoy the event and get to feel that their tribe is making a show of power in numbers on a public stage. " Or perhaps people with compassion and moral conscience would prefer to be seen on the right side of history. | |||
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"Im all for Israel " | |||
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"Im all for Israel "Why? | |||
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"Ye, this isn't America. We don't have free speech in the UK. Sadly. However, if I am right in that, that chant, means a call to violence, then yeh it is the right thing to do. Do you condemn far right calls for violence ? Is homophobia "free speech" ?" I condemn all calls for violence, why wouldn't I? Seems an odd question. Yes, in my opinion all speech should be free unless you're calling for or inciting violence. Everyone should be able to and allowed to criticize anyone and anything that they have an objection to, regardless of what or who they are criticizing. Telling someone they will get in trouble for voicing a concern about something that they are concerned about... is verging on tyranny and authoritarianism, actually it is. I feel the whole "phobic" finger pointing is only going make situations worse. | |||
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"These marches are pointless in the first place , nothing good ever happens because of them . What ever they are about . It's a day out for them ... They enjoy the event and get to feel that their tribe is making a show of power in numbers on a public stage. Or perhaps people with compassion and moral conscience would prefer to be seen on the right side of history. " If it involves Israel... then they are very keen to be seen protesting against them. Anything else involving other countries ..... not so much | |||
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"These marches are pointless in the first place , nothing good ever happens because of them . What ever they are about . It's a day out for them ... They enjoy the event and get to feel that their tribe is making a show of power in numbers on a public stage. Or perhaps people with compassion and moral conscience would prefer to be seen on the right side of history. If it involves Israel... then they are very keen to be seen protesting against them. Anything else involving other countries ..... not so much " Perhaps related to the history of the pseudo-state. It is possible to single out Israel as no other nation shares the equivalent. | |||
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"These marches are pointless in the first place , nothing good ever happens because of them . What ever they are about . It's a day out for them ... They enjoy the event and get to feel that their tribe is making a show of power in numbers on a public stage. Or perhaps people with compassion and moral conscience would prefer to be seen on the right side of history. If it involves Israel... then they are very keen to be seen protesting against them. Anything else involving other countries ..... not so much Perhaps related to the history of the pseudo-state. It is possible to single out Israel as no other nation shares the equivalent." Glad you made that point - Palestine is a perfect example of a Pseudo-State. | |||
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"The big problem with this is that people can’t seem to separate the difference between the different groups involved. There are 4 distinct groups involved: 1. The Israeli Government. 2. The Hamas group. 3. Ordinary Israeli People. 4. Ordinary Palestinian People. 1 & 2 are as bad as one another, and both are to be condemned for their actions. 3 & 4 are the innocent victims of 1 & 2 and are the ones who have suffered because of their actions. But as long as people can’t separate these groups 3 & 4 will keep on being targeted by supporters of 1 & 2 and the cycle of violence will not be broken." That sounds very sensible | |||
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"The big problem with this is that people can’t seem to separate the difference between the different groups involved. There are 4 distinct groups involved: 1. The Israeli Government. 2. The Hamas group. 3. Ordinary Israeli People. 4. Ordinary Palestinian People. 1 & 2 are as bad as one another, and both are to be condemned for their actions. 3 & 4 are the innocent victims of 1 & 2 and are the ones who have suffered because of their actions. But as long as people can’t separate these groups 3 & 4 will keep on being targeted by supporters of 1 & 2 and the cycle of violence will not be broken." If only it really was that simple. In truth, there isn't a great deal of separation. Draw a Ven Diagram of 'The Israeli Government' & 'Ordinary Israeli people' ... or 'The Hamas group' & 'Ordinary Palestinian people' ... and there will be a significant overlapping of each pair. And what about all the other 'Groups'/Nation States/Religious Affiliates that are involved in and strive to influence the whole seemingly never-ending saga? It is a Gordian knot that only expands and tightens over time. | |||
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